DocWatts

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  1. Posted · Edited by DocWatts

    Thought it might be interesting to start a thread where everyone posts a recommendation for a Podcast/Youtube channel they enjoy, along with maybe a one or two sentence description.

    I'll kick the thread off for the (highly underappreciated) Martyrmade podcast by Darryl Cooper, in particular his six part series about Jim Jones and the People's Temple Cult.

    https://www.martyrmade.com/topics/jonestown/

    Goes in to a ton of depth about cult mentality, the fragmentation of the American Civil Rights movement, and so much more. He does a great job at covering difficult subject matter with a lot of nuance and empathy.

  3. Posted

    2 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

    Orange misunderstanding Green:

    Btw he's right about America having the most wealthy people, but remember that America is sitting on top of the world economic exploitation pyramid where the game is to exploit the countries below.

    Transcend and include: capitalism is great at generating wealth, not so great at distributing its gains in an equitable manner, and is also terrible for environmental sustainability.

    Social democracy is really just a way to improve industrialized capitalism so that it works for a larger portion people, not just an economic elite. Not like social democracies like Sweden don't make heavy use of markets to distribute goods.

    The hard divide that's drawn between the two systems is rather silly, and usually done for ideological reasons and/or to make a strawman argument.

  4. Posted · Edited by DocWatts

    What's hilarious is that there are people from Blue who don't realize that this is making fun of them, and end up taking a critique of elements of Black culture from stage Green as an affirmation of thier own racist views. Chappele's Show also comes to mind for people in stage Blue / Red misunderstanding and liking something in a way contrary to what the artist intended.

     

  5. Posted · Edited by DocWatts

    Maybe I'm the odd man out, but after looking at a screen all day for my job, flipping through a physical book is really nice.  Might be something particular to my sensibilities, but that subtle mildewy smell from a slightly older book is something I actually kind of miss when reading an ebook. I use simple sticky notes to mark the pages I want to return to, and will use an old school pencil to mark off this section or that.

  7. Posted

    Easier said than done, but if you can frame the idea in a way that's uses some aspect of thier own worldview, you'll have more success.

    Just off the top of my head, the current Pope, Pope Francis, has been masterful in framing progressive ideals such egalitarianism and environmentalism in a way that religious people can find palatable (ie God gave this world to us, and we have moral duty not to let climate change and pollution destroy this gift from our Creator).

  8. Posted

    1 minute ago, I said:

    @DocWatts He spends a lot of time alone, his rants get kind of annoying (way more than they used to) and he does get really defensive. It's like he thinks he's on a higher plane of existence than everyone else

    Sounds like he's maybe applying Spiral Dynamics in a really immature and uninformed way. If he's using it to judge others and place himself above everyone else, he's kind of missing the whole point of the Spiral Dynamics model. One of the main reasons that Spiral Dynamics exists is to help people better understand and empathize with others who have a different worldview than your own. 

  10. Posted

    So I guess I would ask if your friend is manifesting his belief in this system in an unhealthy and/or toxic way? Is he isolating himself from outside criticism, and does get defensive really easily if his views are challenged in any way? Does he display an "us vs them" mentality to the outside world? Do you feel like he's being taken advantage of, or being emotionally manipulated?  Those are  just a few indicators you can look to to to help determine if your friend is in a cult. It could be the case that he's attached himself to a misinformed worldview without necessarily being in a Cult.

    As others have mentioned, without diving too deep into it, it looks like the model above is some sort of sloppy reinterpretation of Spiral Dynamics. Without more info it's kind of hard to say.
     

  11. Posted

    Awesome,thanks! I always intuited that Albert Camus was a healthier form of Existentialism  than the existentialism espoused by Nietzsche, as unlike Nietzsche I got the sense that Camus cared about other people in a way that Nietzsche struggled with; he put his life on the line by fighting in the French resistance against Nazi occupation, and was a critic of Colonial Racism; he was also wise enough to understand the value of community.

    I'll admit that I'm much less familiar with the work of Ken Wilber than I am of Don Beck and Clare Graves. I've read most of what I could get my hands on for the latter, and only one Ken Wilber book so far (A Theory of Everything, which I found quite insightful). I'm also aware that Don Beck and Christopher Cowan distanced themselves from Ken Wilber, since he took their model in a direction they didn't quite agree with. Not to devalue Ken Wilber, I just think it's interesting that Spiral Dynamics is also open to different interpretations and implementations, just like any other model. I'd be open to other Ken Wilber books suggestions though; especially any books that go deep in to systems thinking, as that's something that's really resonating with me at this point in my life (I find the Spirituality stuff interesting and potentially valuable, but it's something I struggle to connect with as much at my current stage of development).

    I'm aware that people are a blend of different stages of Spiral Development, and saying that someone is at a stage just means that's where their center of gravity is at, so to speak. Just as a counterbalance when I find myself getting excited about an idea or concept, I like to take a step back and try to find its limitations (this really helped me a ton and allowed me to put things like reductionist materialism into perspective, for instance). Parsing out the implied metaphysics from a model or philosophy makes a lot of sense as to integrating it into the SD model.

  14. Posted · Edited by DocWatts
    Grammar

    This thread is meant as a continuation of an interesting topic of discussion that originated in the Spiral Dynamics Stage Blue MegaThread. This discussion itself was about using Spiral Dynamics as a lens to look at various literary and philosophical works; in particular the works of Dostoevsky (who'd I'd argue is a healthy example of the Blue worldview), and of Nietzsche (who'd I'd argue is a Red worldview, though @Bernardo Carleial made a convincing case that he's closer to a malfunctioning Orange that dips in to the aggressive tendencies of Red).

    About Nietzsche in particular, I suppose I have a bit of trouble placing someone who has disdain for %99 of humanity, and is so predominately ego driven, into the Orange worldview. I'll also cite how outspoken in his opposition to Orange value systems such Utilitarianism, Consumerism, and Material Comfort, as well as his sycophantic admiration for the Elites in society as further evidence of this. And while Nietzsche would never have supported groups such as the Nazis, his work easily lends itself to fascist (mis)interpretations, since a positive claim is never made in his work as to why other people deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.

    I'll admit that Nietzsche  can be a tough one to place,  as he does offer quite sophisticated critiques of aspects of Blue. Perhaps we're also seeing some of the limitations of Spiral Dynamics as a model; while it's a really useful model for most people most of the time, there's also a few cases where I have trouble mapping someone's ideas onto the SD model (where the hell would you put Hegelian Dialectics on the SD model?)

  18. Posted

    3 minutes ago, Bernardo Carleial said:

    Interesting take on Dostoyevsky's story. I haven't take that in consideration, thank you for elucidating that @DocWatts.

    As for "Crime and Punishment". I still take the same position that I've had before. Take the epilogue for example: even after confessing his crime and being sent to Siberia, he still sees himself as superior than the other prisoners and do not understand why they're picking on him, the only moment when he settled down was when he finds out that he's in love with Sonya.

    As for Nietzsche... well... he is complicated. I see him as a "malfunctioning vMEME Orange". The reason why I say he is malfunctioning is because of his life story: due to a lot of trauma and mental disorder he developed a lot of hiccups on the vMEME Blue, which in turn he reacts against it very often by regressing into vMEME Red. Ken Wilber describes this behavior as being "An allergy" to a particular stage.

    I would love to continue the conversation with you but I think this is getting beyond the scope of this thread. If you like we can message each other up or create another topic that talks about similar concepts. That woul be cool!?? take care.?

     

     

    Yeah for sure man, would be happy to.

  19. Posted

    Haven't seen many video game examples listed in this thread, but Undertale is a wonderful example of what a stage Green video game can be. For those unfamiliar, it's basically a deconstructionist take on role playing video games, asks the player to have empathy for the Monsters you encounter on your journey, and challenges them to solve problems through means other than violence.

    It manages this while also not taking itself too seriously, and is a humorous game filled with puns and amusing scenarios.
     

     

  20. Posted

    I would think a massive improvement in the living conditions of all mankind, so that most people's survival needs at the lower stages are met, would be a prerequisite for a majority of humanity to reach Yellow (my mind here goes to Star Trek, just because there's not many other examples of a stage Yellow society that I can think of). The stage you're at doesn't arise out of thin air, it's a environmental response to survival needs in the society you happen to be living in, and I would imagine stage Yellow thinking would be hard if not impossible to achieve if you're constantly worried about your personal safety, have food insecurity, or are constantly exhausted from working a grinding dead end job. 

    Most of the world hasn't even reached Green yet, so systemic Yellow thinking is a tall order. The people who make it to the higher stages of Green and then to Yellow tend to be highly privileged (not excluding myself from this). 

  21. Posted · Edited by DocWatts
    Spelling, clarity

    On 9/2/2020 at 1:22 PM, Bernardo Carleial said:

    I will have to disagree with you on that regard. What happened is that Raskolnikov (the main character) was actually able to see the limitations of vMEME Blue, but he didn't know how to integrate it properly and transcend it into vMEME ORANGE. And because of that (also the fact that he had some money issues) what happened is  that he regresses into vMEME Red and ends up killing a person. And the rest of the book is him trying to make sense of all that...

    Another point is that Dostoyevsky was anything but vMEME Blue. In his novels he is very critical about the way society was structured at his time (in 19th century Russia, which was very Blue and Red). He himself was exiled to Siberia to do forced labor.

    I highly recommend everyone to go read this book. I'm glad you brought that up @DocWatts ! Sorry if I've been too harsh in my commentary, that wasn't my intention.??

    Hey it's all good, I'm always more than happy to talk about literary works I enjoy, and enjoy hearing different perspectives on this stuff.

    Dostoyevsky himself was an interesting case. While early in his life he was a left wing reformer who protested authoritarian rule in Russia (and his earlier work reflected this), his arrest in the brutal tzarist penal system (including a mock execution), broke him emotionally and spiritually, so he turned to religion to pick up the pieces, so to speak. So I suppose you could argue that he was closer to Orange at one stage of his life, but due to trauma regressed back to Blue, where he stayed at the rest of his life.

    What's even more interesting is that you can see his knowledge of the Orange worldview reflected in the character Ivan in the Brothers Karamozov, who's a nuanced take on Orange (and the most interesting character in the book). Ivan ends up going insane from having a lack of belief in a higher power after the guilt of believing that his brother murdered thier father. Meanwhile the highly religious stage Blue character Alayosha is the most positively portrayed character in the whole book.

     

    As for Crime and Punishment, I believe the work is meant as a retort to a Nietzcheien (Red) worldview, with Napoleon Bonaparte in particular in the crosshairs. The work shows how self destructive a Red 'beyond good and evil' mindset is, as the main character cannot escape the guilt of the murders he commits, and attempting to avoid responsibility ultimately proves to be self destructive; he ends up turning himself in to the authorities, and accepting a sentence of hard labor for his crimes. Guilt and obedience to lawful authority are pillars of Blue. The fact that he tried and failed to transcend Blue and regressed back in to Red in the way you mention strikes me as true, and something I haven't considered.

    Of course if you see Nietzsche's worldview as Orange rather than Red (as I argue it's a nuanced power fantasy philosophy by a man who lacked agency in his own life), I could see how you would have a different interpretation of the work in question.

    It was interesting to hear your take on it, might have to give it another read one of these days.

     

  23. Posted

    1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

    I was strictly a designer. Although when I worked on my own projects I would do art and coding as well.

    Red Projekt Red actually emailed me about 8 years ago asking me to join them on Witcher 3's development. But I said no because I was starting Actualized.org

    Right on. When you look back, do you see you time in the Games Industry as positive on the whole, or did burnout and corportatization leave a bad taste in your mouth? I know the industry has a (deservedly) bad rap for shitty labor practices and working conditions, essentially taking advantage of people's passion and framing it as a priveledge to work crunch time to meet a deadline.

    I was incredibly fortunate to land a gig with a smaller studio that has more Green aligned values, hopefully we'll see more of that over time, as people get burned out and end up leaving the industry.

  24. Posted

    6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    I bet it will probably get a 9/10 or 10/10 rating and sell something like 30+ million copies. Unless it turns out to be turd.

    I think they've been developing it so long because they know if they can hit a 9/10 rating they will earn a billion dollars off this title. So it's really in their benefit to make it good.

    Hey Leo, I remember you mentioning in your vids that you worked in the games industry at one point, just wondering what your role was? Artist? Producer? Programmer? Been a bit curious about this for awhile, since I've been in the industry as well.