Gesundheit

You will when you lose all the control you think you have on reality, and discover that no amount of philosophy/thinking can help you regain that control, because it was an illusion all along.

Of course, but that's not the point of this thread. OP is inquiring the stances we have on ideology. Trying to be non-ideological is itself a form of unwillingness to see other world views because it holds firmly only the idea of being non-ideological to be true, when in fact, it isn't. Rather, it's just a non-ideological ideology that does not allow any other ideologies but itself, which is exactly what all ideologies do, and how all them are. Hinduism does not allow any other religion or worldview to exist unless it is in accordance with its rules and a priori. And so are all other ideologies. There is nothing different or special about this, because ideology is inherent in humans who are capable of thinking, and therefore inevitable. I would even argue that it exists in the DNA of all beings, or even more fundamental than that, it exists in the core of all things. But that's too far from here, and apparently even Leo is not ready to hear that, so let's keep it simple and focused.

This is basic enlightenment stuff. Nothing new or nuanced here, honestly. And I most definitely agree with it and encourage everyone to take it seriously because it helped me remove a lot of the unnecessary suffering that I used to cause to myself. When I compare myself to others, it becomes crystal clear to me that I'm at some very advanced level, given the fact that my material life is such a shitty one in comparison, and yet they suffer and I don't. Yet, my life is not the worst thing I can imagine. It could get a lot worse, and I think I'm extremely fortunate to be who I am. In fact, I would not trade my life with anyone, even with you, even though I'm 100% sure your material life circumstances are better than mine. I mean you have a YouTube channel, I can't even afford a new phone. Yes, I have overcome most of my imaginary problems. But I would certainly want to change my life to the better as long as I could. Even though, technically, "better" does not seem to be a real thing. I mean what's better than a healthy body and a peaceful mind? I honestly could not ask for more, but I also would never want for any of that to be removed or taken away from me. I hope that gives you a clearer idea of who I am. And yes, I agree that it's not right to put labels on reality, neither positive nor negative. It's just what it is. Now, beyond that, notice that it's philosophical and not practical at all. Because beyond the labels and prior to them, there's the ground reality, which contains pain and suffering, and also happiness and love and all that.

Love manifests in many ways. Some ways are less attached, and some are more attached. People pleasing is a highly attached/needy form of love, which like you said, is due to scarcity, which I would add that it's ultimately due to fear/self-hatred. Self-love/awareness is a very important part of the recovery process, indeed.

@Mu_ The problem with your approach is that it's usually a straw-man of the discussion at hand. I might be discussing certain points, but then you bring something else up as if it actually diminishes the points being made or ends the discussion somehow. I understand how you make relevant and practical responses, but again, this becomes a straw-man because these responses are not the whole picture. Here, for example, I am talking about the experience of physical pain. And then you come and tell me to do an investigation into the relationship between the mind and physical pain. I don't know why you would bring that up time and time again when I made my point crystal clear that I'm talking about pure physical pain. I understand how deceiving the mind is, and still, I'm in no way claiming that I'm enlightened or above my mind. But this is different, and even you acknowledged that physical pain is not a comfortable/desired experience. But then you return to the same straw-man that it's not really painful except for the mind. And then I return to my original argument that this is silly and unicornical. And then repeat endlessly.

It's not simple except your silence ideology. You think that silence is not an ideology? Well, then, think twice. Anyone can use the same logic and apply it to their ideologies, but that doesn't make anyone non-ideological, or in any lesser degree. I could say that the act of murder is not an ideology. In murder, there is not even the idea of murder or no murder. It's actually pretty simple. I don't get the rambling to be honest. What you're basically saying here is that you can think without thoughts. Well, that'd be some next generation alien technology that I'm not really interested in.

Because an ideology is a system of ideas and ideals. And these things are not possible without an identity/mind that maintains them. A system is maintained by identification, simply because otherwise it would dissolve and not be a system anymore and rather a chaotic mess, which is the whole point of ideology, is to maintain the human identity through the sneakiest ways possible and then deny that it has anything to do with that. Self-deception 101. Denial will not make what I said any less true. Whatever angle you look at it, this is the case, and it cannot be otherwise.

I am doing it right here, but you're telling me that I'm not. I am denying the ideas you're suggesting so that I can stay aware and non-ideological, but that in and of itself is just my ideology. I value awareness in the present moment over thinking about past/future. Then again, this value discernment is my enlightenment ideology.

@Barbara You're right. Teal has a video on self-sacrifice being the most selfish thing to do

Of course. That's exactly what I'm saying, minus the frustration or any feelings/reactions on my part. You've done this multiple times by now, so I feel I should alert you to what you're doing. You have referred to me many times as if I'm lacking perspective and missing something, which I do agree that it's always the case for me. But what you're missing when you do that is that you're actually avoiding that same investigation by throwing it at me because you think that your perspective is more coherent and comprehensive than mine without giving the chance to my perspective to be fully explored. This causes identification to a position. And then you tell me that I should be investigating my position when I'm actually doing that investigation already, while you're not. You have done the same thing multiple times on different occasions, so I thought you should know. Just because you disagree with me does not necessarily mean that you have the higher perspective. Maybe I do, but you're refusing to listen. I didn't mean to say that you think you are special. It was part of the bigger point that I was making that there's no free will. On the one hand, you acknowledge my point. Then on another, you reject it again. I don't understand your point. This question is for both of you @Mu_ & @Snader : Wouldn't you actually prefer a pain-free life over even a slightly painful one? I personally would like to be in a constant high state, but that's not realistic. I would never want to experience even 0.000000000000000000000000001% of pain. And I would always want to experience positive states. Is this not what all humans deeply want? Or am I the weird one here? Now, @Snader Of course, pain is just a sensation, but it is a painful one, regardless of your thoughts. In certain coma states, the body still reacts to pain stimuli. I don't deny Ralston's wisdom, but I don't think it's wise to take the harder route of enduring unnecessary pains when there are other, better, and easier solutions. I once read that Ralston removed some teeth or did some surgery without an anaesthetic. Well, to me, that's extremely stupid given the fact that anaesthesia exists in our modern world. To me, that's like bypassing science because he wanted to show off his spiritual muscles. Science exists so that it can make life, which is a much more difficult experience otherwise, an easier experience. So I will always root for science first when it comes to dealing with physical problems. Spiritual solutions are like the last thing on the list. That being said, it remains absolutely true that life is not a 100% pleasant experience. So I really don't know where narratives such as happiness/love is our true nature come from except from drugs or temporary high states induced by spiritual practices, which I'm not against in practice, but I'm certainly against in value judgement.

Teal Swan defines a healthy relationship as one where both parties are constantly looking out for each other's best interests.

Not possible If you are non-ideological, you must be maintaining a non-ideological identity, which is an ideology. You can't escape ideology because you can't escape metaphysics.

This issue is unclear in Spiral Dynamics. The 9 Stages Of Ego Development addresses it better as a conflict between values and cognitive development that happens at the pluralist/individualist level. Here, a screenshot from Cook-Greuter's paper talking exactly about this particular issue: Y'all should really study something beyond Spiral Dynamics, or else you're gonna be left behind.

See, this is exactly what I'm disagreeing with. They "can"? Seriously, dude, WTF? Pain and discomfort here are not a possibility. They're an inevitability. Rape and torture don't feel good in the moment, and there's no way I can agree that they do. Unless you're in a certain temporary high state, you will suffer severely in the process. What you do afterwards is none of my concerns here. What I'm talking about is the actual uncomfortable situations that don't feel good to the body. Let the mind out of the equation for now and focus on the body for a moment. Where's happiness as my true nature when I'm depressed? Where's infinite love as God's true nature when I'm suffering? You see, these things are unicornical because even if you don't think about the pain, they'll still be painful. In fact, I would argue that pain is the biggest source of thoughts, which adds more suffering on top of the original pain. The thing y'all don't seem to understand is that it's not because you're somehow special that you were able to overcome your sexual abuse/traumatic past/whatever. It's probably because you have a comfortable life right now that you would be a fool to suffer otherwise. Because what's the point of suffering a traumatic past when you can simply move past it and enjoy yourself in the moment? Enlightenment work helps, granted. I myself have transcended a lot of my unnecessary suffering through awakening. I don't see a point in whining or complaining about past suffering. But again, I am not talking about a past suffering, nor about a future concern. I am talking about suffering in the present moment. My grandma used to have multiple illnesses that would make her cry every single day for nearly a decade, and there was nothing we could do about it except giving her pointless medications, until she died. She would always cry and scream what did I do to deserve all that? I do realize that part of her suffering was psychological, but dude what about the physical? Why should anyone go through that? If that still doesn't cut it for you, I'm sure if you were her, you would be the same. Your circumstances might have lead you to realize the power of the mind, while hers didn't. So I can't really blame her for the unnecessary suffering she was causing to herself. She wasn't enlightened in any way, but she didn't know any better. However, my point still stands that if it wasn't for her malfunctioning body, then she would have suffered a lot less. And that's the whole point. If all suffering was invented, then it would have been a lot easier. But some of it is inherent in reality, which makes reality not happiness, and not love.

@Snader These people don't think they're giving practical advice. They think it's absolute truth, which is what I'm disagreeing with here. Otherwise, have at it. I have no problems with practical advice whatsoever. Btw, I don't recall OP asking for advice.

German articles drive me crazy! Thanks for the info. I just added Latin to my list. I would appreciate your input on Chinese.

Sleep early, seriously.

God.

Lol I sure don't. But perhaps you think philosophizing is a good thing? I don't hold a value judgement on philosophy. It's just what it is, and it happens. Well, then, explain some of the naive replies here. And explain infinite love in practice, outside of philosophy.

Yep. It is an ideology. This shows the limited nature of language. The truth is that ideology is inevitable in the human condition. You can't be a sane human without thinking. Thoughts = ideas = ideology.

Yourself. Women are just human beings, and so are you. Nothing more special or sophisticated about them than you or the people you know. Deeply understand yourself, and you will understand everyone, even deeper than they do. Of course, use outside resources for help. Be open-minded. Collect understanding from everywhere. Generally, when women give advice for men, they will generally tell you relationship advice, what they want in a relationship, and how they want you to be behaving to maintain that relationship. But they don't tell you attraction advice, how to get a relationship started, or how to get them wet. For some reasons, they expect you to know all that stuff already. So, understanding the biases of your sources is important. This is a high quality conversation. Check it out.

God is dangerous, and It is safe, too.

Lol there is no such thing as consciousness. If you can't point to it, then how is your question different from: How can we be sure that otrfhuf is not generated by the brain?

I always say it's easy to talk philosophy as long as you're living a comfortable life. But what happens when someone comes and rapes and tortures you? All of the sudden, you'll be suffering and in pain. All of these unicornical ideas about happiness and peace of mind will fly out of the window. And you will be left with hatred towards life and God and everything. Hippies on drugs won't understand, because the high effect is stronger. But drugs don't last forever.