Someone here

@Nahm prove to me for certain that you are an aware being. Or prove to yourself that I'm an aware being. Or prove to yourself that you aren't dreaming at your bed right now. Or prove to yourself that your whole life is not an ant dreaming during the sunset nap. If you don't and you won't.. You haven't disproved solipsism.

He misunderstood solipsism "the belief that only my finite mind exists". That's not what solipsism says. To be me more accurate and this is a very important addition "only my finite mind is certain to exist". When presented this way.. This argument is impossible to refute because since you were born untill you die you don't have access to anything other than your own finite mind.

That's the whole point! You can't ever prove or disprove the sentient of anyone but yourself.

All that happens effortlessly in your dreams at night with no problems.

LOL yeah sometimes. But It's not what you feel 90 % of the time. Maybe when you get really really old.. Even breathing or being aware could be no longer effortless and somehow painful to you. But that's not the case for the majority. Some philosophers like Arthur Schopenhauer claim that everything is suffering.. That existence itself is an evil phenomenon and it would be Better if nothing existd at all. Typically those philosophers are considered nihilists and most people don't want to hold pessimistic views on life. It's interesting that Buddhism is deeply nihilistic religion. The four noble truths 1 life is suffering. 2 there is a cause for suffering. 3 the cause of suffering is "desire". 4 the end of suffering is desirelessness and detachment.

Just read my replies above. I think I have put an end to this. Otherwise we could go on and on basically repeating the same arguments.

In your dreams no one is real other than you.. Yet they definitely "appear" real at the moment. And you deal with what is apparent not with what is actually the case because it's covered by deception. And I am doing the same thing now.

If you say there is something existing beyond direct experience.. That's just another experience in form of belief that is still happening inside direct experience. Even if there are other aware beings.. They don't exist as such from your pov.. Only as mere appearances. There is no difference between the Leo you see in your dreams and the Leo you see in the waking state .. Both are just mere appearances that you assume is more than that. It's not rocket science. Just dig it.

If only you truly understand what this means.

I don't get it.

Actually It's me who struggles to get almost anything you say. So maybe I did completely misunderstand your post.. If that was an argument against solipsism I just showed you how it is false. If not.. perhaps try to explain it by stooping down to my level and talking directly even tho that might be uncomfortable to you.

@Nahm old cute argument and it's false. The same thing can happen in my dreams and yet it is still my dream and all the appearances Inside the dream has no reality outside my own mind. Someone could annoy me in my dream and appears as if he is beyond my control and is independent from me.. Yet that whole scenario is still the creation of my own mind. Nothing exists except me and whatever I'm perceiving at the surface of this world. When I'm asleep nothing exists. When die (assuming death is like deep sleep) the whole universe will die with me.

I'm not gonna waste my time replying to you. To ignore list because you are kinda hair spliter endless personal arguing peep like Nak Khid. And stop hijacking the thread. Say something of value or go waste your time somewhere else. @Gesundheit

@Mu_ sorry this is legit turning into a nonsense online fight over imaginary problems. I'm over.

Don't change your expectations. The idea of having a fixed expectations for people's behavior is absurd anyways. Humans are organic not some dumb physical objects which operates under mechanical laws.

Why all the sudden the thread is about "me" and my personality and what I have learned and all that? I really get the sense that you are trying to distract the discussion. You do realize that there is literally no one here? That the person who you think is being defensive or stubborn doesn't even exist? ? You are just upset about ideas in your own mind about a non existing entity that you think is doing stuff. That's something I learned so I don't get personal too much.

@Mu_ projecting onto you? Show me one example where did I do that? I just discussed your ideas without any reference to your person. It is you who tried to distract the discussion by accusing me of me close mindedness and smartassery just because of the fact that I disagree with you. Anyways I don't like these getting personal.. Let's end it please.

@Mu_ I stopped smoking for 4 weeks now bro lol.. Wanna make me go back?. Btw smoking gives some Insight about how happiness and suffering go together.

@Nahm Thanks. I promise will consider this even tho I believe this is again has to do with the psychological aspect of suffering not much with the physical or plain sensations.

@Mu_ you just take it personal. Has nothing to do with me or you. Just sharing ideas together. We can disagree with each other without assuming that the other person is just playing smartass or disagreeing for the sake of disagreement. . But since that's how you Believe my situation to be.. I will leave it here and not will not open a new line with you. Appreciate your insights btw.

There is a sense of self but there is no self. That's how you can even reference to "it" and deny it's existence.. If it was completely absent we wouldn't need a 7000 years nondual tradtions to teach us such obvious fact.

There is actually such a reference point which is ME. That might be true objectively or from the point of view of the universe itself but not true from the point of view of a sense of self.

So just being aware of the pain it's gonna disappear??? Sorry no it doesn't work like that. Not at all.

It's called placebo.

@Nahm alright I will listen to your advice. Maybe I'm being too argumentative. But I just honestly didn't see a satisfying answer that actually makes sense. So that's why I'm disagreeing.. Because I'm actually disagreeing. So far everyone are just trying to make suffering just a misperception.. Something that my mind is doing.. And I'm clearly seeing that's not the case. It's just not. Your question "what is suffering"? "what it is"? . I'm not sure why should that be a tricky question... It is just a feeling!, a feeling that is being perceived directly and is unpleasant regardless of the thoughts attached to it.. In fact it is the feeling that triggers the thoughts. Anyways didn't expect getting satisfying answers. Appreciate all the feedback tho.