The observer

haha but my awakenings have shown me that improving one pov necessarily deteriorates other povs b cuz of balance ie since ur growing urself some things must die and when u die other things will grow so in a sense awakening is a selfish act haha idk about that. i think its a interesting story but what i know is that right now im in infinite love and cant not be in it unless ur implying some thing else which im not aware of yet

haha no dude it wasnt ur message but a way of explaining my point by implying ideology i explained in my opening post why becoming conscious doesnt help and i repeat here b cuz it does not automatically change the world nor suddenly neither gradually. b cuz theres desire that needs to be got rid of and theres programming ie karma that needs to be worked through but these two things are opposites if u want to maintain the system. however if u want to merge them u have to leave the system entirely and go live in a cave and basically every one has to do the same thing for that to happen but thats not realistic b cuz ppl are not conscious enough to consider that and also theyre addicted to and dependent on the system and also most ppl wont intuit that it will be rewarding so that is that. so if ppl completely left their lives and went to meditate in caves that would make a utopia like im describing but lets assume all ppl wanted to pursue god and purify them selves it still wouldnt happen b cuz they would have to leave the system collapse and no body including me and u would want that b cuz ppl want to preserve the system b cuz at the very least its serving a psychological function (addiction) let alone all other physical and what not services that are simply only possible b cuz of the system and if ppl could let go of them then that would make a utopia like the one im describing on the other hand if we start with working on the transcending the system by following our desires without resistance that would create a huge back lash and the human life would become more or less like a jungle until we burn through all of our karmas and theres no desire left if thats even possible (this scenario is not likely) now u might say again that it will happen gradually one human at a time as were developing (which is obviously the most realistic trajectory tbh) but what im saying is that gradually is a infinite process and will not ever end b cuz first awakening is infinite so even if everyone awakens thats not the end and second b cuz a child is not born awake he has to go through delusion first and then transcend it in to awakening b cuz thats the nature of awakening b cuz delusion is a prerequisite for it and so the cycle goes on for ever and ever and so also i have another hypothesis its that when some one dies his awakening goes away with him so some one else has to awaken to that truth otherwise it will be forgotten and then the loss will create a deficiency that needs to be fulfilled in order to maintain the system as it is and so until it is resolved the system will be unstable which will manifest in unconsciousness and so on. but of course ppl dont die once a day a lot of ppl die every day and thats why its never gonna be stable it wont be any different if u dont have an ideology. from a bigger picture nothing is changing at all. but again from ur pov (desiring to end racism and to equate with women) it seems like its changing for the better when in fact its simply taking place on the expense of other things i cant even intuit but for example its like cutting down forests to build cities and thinking that the forests are not decreasing and that were only increasing luxury. bottom line is that luxury cannot increase without consequences if ur living a luxurious life some other being is definitely not and so on. u cant make every one live in luxury its just a law of life it can but dont forget that any political change by definition hinges on ideology u cant get rid of ideology even if ur realised sry for talking a lot thank u for taking the time to read and contribute it was a great discussion feel free to add whatever u want i will read but probably not reply cuz im done explaining my pov

@Leo Gura @electroBeam in other words physical death is the ultimate truth and love. interesting thought that comes to mind is that then whats the point of talking about it and working towards it? isnt this act itself hypocritical since it will eventually happen to every one and not only the seeking?

@LfcCharlie4 u think there will be a point where the ego says ok its enough now i have fulfilled my purpose and its time to rip? u think it is possible to transcend the ego collectively? then perhaps uve missed the last i dont know how many centuries of human development and perhaps uve missed how nature works. survival for the fittest and every one thinks hes the fittest. u think u and ur ideals are fittest. trump thinks he and his ideals are fittest. hitler thinks he and his ideals are fittest. i think me and my ideals are fittest. but does any of that actually make any one fittest? at turquoise u dont have an agenda or ideals at turquoise u are one with reality what ever reality is and what ur describing is a stage green dream of his ideal world when at turquoise u realise that it doesnt work that way at all. the basic assumption all of u seem to be taking for granted is that reality is not already the best it could be. ur perspective then interferes and distorts ur perception by thinking oh well if more ppl could become more like me then certainly the world would become a better place. the truth is that whether every one is like u or not is in fact irrelevant to how good the world is since its absolutely good and u said that here and many times before i guess but then u make a clever distinction between absolute and relative truth and miss the fact that the relative truth ur talking about is ur own creation b cuz it fits ur agendas. for trump he may not be interested in absolute truth but that wont matter to him b cuz he takes his relative truth to be the absolute truth like u also do with urs. so u see? from ur pov it makes perfect sense that a world full of ppl like u would be a better place and so u probably will strive towards actualizing that vision but exactly in that attempt to alter reality u will create more minions of urself and those minions will in turn try to influence other ppl to make them minions of u too and then u and ur minions will have to face other leaders and their minions in the world and then each of u will try to minion the other to become more like him (perhaps like im doing right now haha) and then there will be a clash between the two not necessarily physical but certainly strong enough to stop or decrease the expansion of both sides. of course in the story above i used two sides for simplicity but in reality there are many sides that ultimately could be narrowed down into two sides so thats ultimately the epitome of nonduality and the yin and yang they are one in essence but theyre still not the same and thats what im saying here reality is different from other povs and when theres only two povs their realities become in opposition to each other and if reality ever became permanently one and stopped fighting with itself it would fall out and die so thats why utopia is impossible b cuz its a dream of one part of reality and if u get all parts to agree with u on that dream reality will then it will stop existing b cuz u will cause its death by emphasising the yin over the yang or vice versa. u might say no im emphasising balance but if thats so then why change any thing? reality is already balanced. and the answer is that b cuz u (ego) would die if u dont desire change so u must have a purpose for ur ego to survive and while u claim to be antagonistic to ego u will become a big advocate of it and so it goes on and on and thats why its a never ending process.. hope u enjoyed reading this and the whole discussion i did enjoy your posts

a typical conspiracy theorist is not at all like ur describing they often have a big component of stage blue thinking but perhaps ur exceptional and in this case ur not a conspiracy theorist but simply an open minded person

i cant believe u guys. u dont seem to get my point at all. are u aware that the improvement ur taking pride of are in fact an advancement of the spiritual agenda on the expense of other agendas? u cant satisfy all agendas together. some agendas will always be left behind and then they will rebel and in effect advance themselves once again while the dominant agenda will likely not have the same motivation to stay on top so it will lose its grip and start declining. its an eternal dance between self and no self. there cannot be only self neither only no self and it has to be both. thats my message and this will probably be my last post on this topic.

of course it is a sign of healing and no it does not necessarily have to occur during the official process of meditation it could occur outside of it too b cuz awareness is not limited to that set period of time. did u notice that u were aware of ur emotions right before u cried? thats meditation too just not in the formal sense. as long as ur in tune with ur sensation it is meditation

comfort itself is not the problem although probably seeking comfort is a huge problem. the problem is the structure of society which devalues comfort and values hard work and so hard workers usually get rewarded with more but still u could find ur passion or at least something that doesnt necessarily make u uncomfortable and make it ur play so u enjoy it and at the same time u use it for growing urself. in this sense it is clear that comfort is not the enemy but relative to how society operates it probably is. of course it is still wise to expect facing uncomfortable situations from time to time but the point is that u dont necessarily have to suffer in order to grow so make sure u dont fall for that limiting belief

no difference when i merge with the book i forget about the medium so its more about the book itself and how much i resonate with it

11) regardless of how much evidence u present to them they wont acknowledge it as valid and will keep coming up with more arguments so its pointless to keep arguing with them on the same level and its best to work on the underlying issues often of paranoia eg u might take a flat earther to the outer space and show him the earth is round and then he will come up with all sorts of stories to deny what his eyes display like hallucination or hypnosis may be vr or live wallpapers too

interesting discussion so far but perhaps uve missed my opening post and the following discussion.. the bottom line is that this spiritual vision or utopia is a pipe dream.. u might wanna take a look and then kindly give me ur feedback

i guess thats b cuz its more hippy politics and not so much conscious. conscious is not naive its cynical.

perhaps thats what is needed for the us right now. china is growing like crazy and the us has been consistently declining in comparison until trump. he didnt get elected for nothing america needs a wild beast to bring some balance back to the global politics as its become number two second to china. the white house is not stupid and america could use even a more acute version of trump if theres any but hes the most acute in hand i guess. i guess assassinating the iranian general was an attempt to shift the us focus towards asia instead of the middle east by weakening a chinese ally as that should at least keep the us and china in the same league. however it does seem like china is unstoppable and things are getting more difficult for the us specially after this whole covid-19 thing and the biggest success in china and worst failure in america. its likely that china will make some changes to strengthen its economy even more and then to better its political position. so now i think it would make sense why trump is rushing to reopen b cuz frankly the us is losing drastically

ummm hello guys r u having fun raping the thread haha im kidding go on

as im waking up to seeing the actual structure of the system im spontaneously losing interest in sex now it just seems like some thing ive been brainwashed to believe is important and worth chasing when in fact its not. suddenly its not enjoyable like it was before. if its not directly related to my survival it doesnt make sense to desire sex to begin with its just dumb. right now im waiting for my karmas to burn their selves out and perhaps then i will be totally free

i dont say go and live in the wilderness is the solution and i dont dismiss the value of the mind. i guess also most of our deaths r not due to other species killing us but rather humans killing each other so what im saying is that if ppl stopped killing each other (and thats impossible due to the existence of hierarchies welcome to reality) then eventually we would have to destroy the systems we were using b cuz theyre ineffective at surviving us and survival would become much easier b cuz then we could keep the good stuff and information weve learned and build up on it as complete individuals with each individual looking out for his own needs and his own needs only until all irrelevant and illusory desires (karma) burn out and then that would leave us in a utopia u might ask why are hierarchies a prerequisite for violence? and the answer is b cuz of ego so i guess we have two choices here either we submit to the hierarchy with our will ie remain asleep labouring (go with the flow) or we wake up to the truth and do something of any kind about it (resist the hierarchy aka evolution) which will definitely face a reaction (resisting evolution) of any kind too from the system. the latter case is what seems to be actually happening and so here we are today stealing freedom from our young by indoctrinating them in schools and for what? for teaching them how to survive. yes 12 years of ur childhood was mainly about abusing u physically mentally and emotionally supposedly for teaching u how to survive but unfortunately u werent awake to this truth i assume until now. so instead of teaching u how to simply peacefully grow ur own plants they taught u how to be extremely deceptive in order to stay alive no matter how much u might suffer for it and thats just one example out of many. so now u have to go through one of the two scenarios i proposed above u either go back to sleep or try to do something about it the latter which will most likely be the case and so u will attempt to create a new set of deceptions to cover that up and thats basically whats happening all the time. even ppl at the top of the hierarchy are in a sense laboring to the system b cuz their survival is dependent on the system functioning well and if it some how stopped working their egos would face a huge existential crisis and they would get violent so theyre also slaves to the system in that sense. really what were doing here as human is extremely stupid just b cuz were afraid of losing our lives we accept to lose our freedom and yet we convince ourselves that we are actually free and becoming freer every day while the opposite is the case and then after a while some ppl wake up and try to wake others up and they end up fighting with each other all the time over which system is better and perhaps thats what im doing here so im probably just adding another layer to the whole mess. when thinking about this i find the most accurate analogy is labour building pyramids. the problem with securing survival is that its never the case. yes we might think were more protected right now but in reality any one can kill any one regardless of the punishment. and statistics dont help here b cuz i have but one life. even in the utopian world im imagining its not possible to ensure survival we can only try to increase our chances but we could still die at any moment so were only imagining a better present and even then we go on and imagine a better future without realising that its just a change in appearance not substance i see yes i hinted on this point above. were not very different from ancient rome were all slaves to the system even the ppl at the top are slaves to the system its merely a change in appearance ie an illusion we all come and go but the system (devil) remains untouched in essence b cuz were sustaining it and feeding it our freedom with our fear

in our modern societies 90-99% of the population are slaves. we are labour working for the top 1% that control our resources to preserve the system from falling. of course its not just one system but rather a system within a system within a system within a system. if we stop right now we will get killed b cuz otherwise we will cause the system to collapse and nobody wants that even the poor and even highly conscious ppl are still victims and dependent on the system. its such a difficult situation were in right now. in exchange for our lives we give up our freedom. well that still happens today only in a different form. its just a disguise leo u from all ppl should be able to see through it. mating in our modern societies is not easy too. for ppl who lived centuries ago it probably was completely acceptable to fight for sex that was certainly not a big deal like we assume today. in their minds killing for sex is the same as learning pua in this day and age we only think its normal b cuz its whats available and mainstream but even so its still not easy to meet ur needs u have to work so hard to earn the necessary skills for having a successful and sustainable fulfillment (u from all the ppl should know haha) and even then u could still be out competed by other chimps so mating was never easy. u might think its easier today relative to back then but what im saying is that its quite the opposite. back then it was easier b cuz they didnt have much egos to protect in a sense they were freer b cuz they wouldnt trade their freedom for their lives. they were willing to live completely fulfilled or die trying they were immortal while were imprisoned r now by fear and so we suffer as a result b cuz weve sold our souls to the devil.

please dont make me repeat my self my point isnt about options. yes sure clearly we do have a good variety of options today but these options r in fact an illusion b cuz we dont actually need them for survival we only need food and water and may be sex. these individualized options r the result of the sophisticated systems weve created so far followed by questioning them but thats a never ending process and more options will keep coming as we keep questioning them probably to infinity. do u realise that we r merely expanding the gap between our desire (survival) and the effective ways to fulfill it? instead of simply growing or breeding or hunting for food we do extremely complex processes to fulfil our needs. how stupid is that? but thats not random. ppl r actively preserving this hierarchy out of ignorance and out of fear and weakness. thats the whole idea that im presenting but these r my limits i cant explain any further. i also even go further and claim that its nearly impossible to break that cycle no matter how u try and that every trial is in fact a step further from breaking it. of course these r just my thoughts r now and of course i could be wrong but thats how im convinced things work at the moment and every thing is possible

and u must first unenlighten to not see that

ego is the structure that runs ur mind including all ur ideas about enlightenment. so as long as this enlightenment thing makes the slightest sense to u ur not enlightened. enlightenment is when u let go of enlightenment but thats not some thing u can do or strive towards it will happen when it happens and words cant communicate it or how it occurs

the death of death

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ok im sorry leo i dont want to sound rude but imho my perspective is higher and more comprehensive than the one ur suggesting and i really hope that im missing some thing but it doesnt seem like i am.. ur telling me to surrender to reality and i did only difference i guess is that u might have a different version of surrendering that does not include desire

@TrynaBeTurquoise perhaps theres nothing else that we can do about it have u considered that governments r doing their best to protect their people and economies? i can justify the censorship as a way to save humanity from being stupid by not sticking to the best chances we have against the virus. perhaps its true that social distancing is not good enough but its the best in hand and it would be stupid to reject it entirely just b cuz its not efficient enough. if 5% of the world dies its still better than wiping out 90% of humanity so i guess thats what ppl who censor the silly questioning that does not provide any other solutions do

i guess it doesnt matter what u practice as long as u have a good heart. i would say set ur intentions right and practice what ever u want b cuz god sees through ur heart not through ur behaviour and the purer ur intentions r the closer they get u to god. of course when i say god i dont mean the old man in the sky