LfcCharlie4

@integral Thank you I'll have a look more into it mate!

Link to look more into it and research more/ purchase it? How often do you use it etc, would love to know more.

Inquire, then abide. From the man himself- https://hridaya-yoga.com/hridaya-yoga-articles/the-self-inquiry-method-of-ramana-maharshi/ I can also recommend a book I'm currently reading, but not sure if I'm allowed to, it's not on Leo's book list though.

@NormanN If you want an optimum method to teach I would say 1-1, I gained nothing but prep before working with my teacher 1-1, this includes a transmission, which I believe is the most effective teaching when a seeker is ready, so relatively speaking I believe these have 'higher value', however this doesn't mean mass and group teachings have 0 value, just less effective in my opinion. I doubt someone will become fully self realized just by going to retreats and reading books, for example Rupert says how he sees similar faces at his retreats, Adya said at his old Zen centre hardly anyone was actually enlightened and if they were a business and enlightenment= profit they'd be out of business quick! If you're asking me what I recommend, find a teacher(s) you resonate with, learn from them, and when you are ready find a teacher who gives transmissions, as this has what has worked for me. I'm guessing as most here your path is psyches?

@NormanN No, the words have a purpose, you couldn't just stare at some random guy on the street and they'd become enlightened. The words are useful until they are not, just like effort is useful until it is not. There is not one teaching for all, every person is unique and should be treated this way, your process will be hugely different to mine- different questions, blockages, different personality etc etc And, yes it is unlearning and the removal of all concepts and beliefs, some will come back that are useful eventually. We are already enlightened yes, but most of us need to work through a lot of stuff to get there and have many awakenings and integrations (not emphasized enough here) until we are 'finished' seeking. Then the never-ending depth continues, but it's different Like I said hard to put into words! When you are ready, I recommend finding form of non-verbal teaching such as a transmission, it's what helped me, but for example this time last year I would not have been ready for it, so all the pre-enlightenment seeking plays a role, as it can be said to preparation if you like.

@Angelite Well yes presence is all quite simply. And, being in the presence of a teacher who has realized this will only heighten this in yourself, we are always presence but occasionally forget @NormanN If I'm honest, the true teaching is in silence, therefore, anything said is actually a disservice to the absolute, but Ramana realized many were not ready for silence, so 'invented' self-inquiry and so forth. The words are merely a tool to this silence, there you will be amazed with what you find.

@Serotoninluv That's a beautiful story <3 Honestly, realizations like that can really change you and radically shift your perspective. I hope your friend has learned to enjoy the now more! He sounds like I used to be! Maybe he's an Enneagram 7, for most 'Normies' if you can learn the Enneagram and help people find their types and show them their blind spots, that will help them trmendously, as most will think your bat shit crazy if you start with the Non-Duality. (Unless you're tripping or taking MDMA together or something)

@Nahm Yes I do merely think we are talking here and misunderstanding each other due to the duality of language, What I'm saying is I've been through the not this not this stage of awakening. There's something beyond that, it goes from I'm nothing/ I'm the one aware of it all, to I'm everything/ I'm God, it then goes further than that even to realizing the Self is all, the very world is the self. Of course I'm reducing things here, and you're not wrong at all. However, what I'm trying to say is it goes deeper. Yes I'm aware you're not mario, and I personally have been through the non doership stage, to realizing the Universe is the Doer, it always has been, 99.9% of people just aren't aware of this, but that doesn't change the fact it is. Just how 99% of people believe themselves to be merely a human and a body, what I'm saying is you're still having a human experience with a body, you will know yourself as the Self, but the paradox is you will become yourself as a human even more so, it's hard to put into words and would be much easier over a call or in person, I now see the struggles of non duality teacher and writers haha. Yes people need to go through the stage of realizing they are more than merely a human, but it goes full circle as I said and you come right back to this, this as it is, and it's the same, yet it's more beautiful than ever, again impossible to word. I'm sorry but if you still believe the world exists you have further to go, that is a marker of a fully self realized being such as Ramana, Nisgardatta, Francis and Rupert Spira. There is nothing but the Self, that is my experience, therefore, there is no world as it is the self, to Quote Ramana himself. 'What exists in truth is the Self alone. The world, the individual soul, and God are appearances in it like silver in mother-of-pearl. These three appear at the same time, and disappear at the same time. The Self is that where there is absolutely no “I” thought. That is called “Silence”. The Self itself is the world; the Self itself is “I”; the Self itself is God; all is Siva, the Self.' The self is all, that is what i mean by there is no world, because there isn't a world out there, there is just the Self, and this gives you complete freedom in the Human realm to be as you are and flourish, living from the Self, the paradoxes make me laugh. P.S. I wasn't meaning to attack you about the flower etc, I was merely stating that these satsangs have people come for decades and not awaken, they have their value but their are much better ways for dedicated and sincere seekers who are truly ready. Maybe they aren't ready in this lifetime amd that is fine

@NormanN Because it has transformed my existential experience, like @Angelite says even being in the presence of Anada for 45 mins helped so much as she is an awakened being. You also get to ask questions related yo YOUR process, not some random guy at a retreats process, that's the biggest difference for me, your sticking points will be so different to mine etc, the presence helps but it's not the full picture ofc. And they don't control you're awakening you do, you finish when YOU say you do, you will know in your own direct experience when the seeking is over, and whether you have awakened and are living in non duality. Are they perfect? Of course not. Like you said they merely support the awakening. All I can say is try RASA for yourself I was skeptical and held off for 4 months or so before pulling the plug, and boy am I glad I did, life is very different now than it was in February.

@NormanN Defo, only work with teachers who resonate with you, as that's who will help you most and what you need. If something feels off it isn't for you right now, I first heard about mine last October, but I wasn't ready and instead became obsessed with Rupert Spira, after listening and reading him for a few months, I felt a calling back to my now teacher and it was honestly the right time, weird how life works.

Yes 100%, the whole teacher and the flower model really doesn't work that well imo, most teachers awakened spontaneously or through working closely with a teacher- Rupert Spira, Francis Lucille etc etc. I personally work with a teacher 1-1 ad have done since February and it has spearheaded my growth to depths I never believed possible, and without it honestly I think it still be stuck as a hardcore seeker. Think of it like this in Sporting terms, lts say for Football (Soccer wrong word but hey) if you have a coach try and teach the whole team each individual is going to get much less out of it, they'll of course get some value, however if the coach works 1-1 with specific players they can work on their individual weak spots and strengths. It's no different spiritually, even with Leo I feel for him he has 1000s of seekers here each with their own questions and problems, one man can only do so much, if he was to work 1-1 regularly with say 10 students at a time, he'd actually have much greater chance of these people awakening, the same with Rupert, Francis etc. Ramaji and Ananda Devi do just that and honestly they've helped to awaken so many people in a short period of time using 1-1 teaching and RASA, without it I wouldn't have awakened, maybe some experiences from Psyches, but nothing compared to what my existential experience is now!

@Nahm From the absolute perspective yes, however when fully self realized one becomes more human than ever. You still have a personality, you will still have a body, you will still have desires and human needs- water, sex, food etc. If you are not human in this realm I ask you to stop eating and drinking for a month then, as if you're not human you would not need to? Yes, me, you and literally everything is nothing but the Self, the world doesn't actually exist and is merely The Self, when I look around I know everything to be The Self as Ramana called it. However, until this body dies you are living a human experience, and for me awakening has only made me more human and more able to be my self. To me life only begins at full self realization, we are then free to live how we wish to. But, please stop spouting non-dual stuff such as 'We are not Human' this only confuses people and I know it confused me in the past, yes absolutely this is correct, but it just leaves people confused thinking becoming enlightened means you won't have a body or will have magical powers etc. I would love to know how many people actually awaken via teachers and their flower talking, these videos have their place, but imo SO MUCH MORE is actually needed to genuinely awaken. This is it, this very moment is it, it goes full circle

Non-Duality when embodied will show you and you will live as the Self, as the Absolute and know yourself and everything to be that,it's pretty fucking awesome. Unless you wanna go live in a cave and meditate forever, you still have the Human realm to live through, after all, you're still a Human with a body and a mind until the day you die, so personally I also want the best human experience, it's as simple as that really. To me, there's no point being awakened if I'm living on the streets begging for food, extreme I know.

@Leo Gura What do you regard as this as I feel there's stages and depths to this for example. Like I feel as if I live in nondual awareness 24/7, with this background of peace that never leaves despite the content and whether I'm 'enjoying' whatever is happening. This has been developing rapidly recently, but I wouldn't say I'm finished yet either. So do you also class it on some sort of depth, and not an all or nothing, as I imagine surely now you must also be living in non-dual awareness, like from the LOC level (sorry) like the 700s potentially? (I know you don't like it but as a reference point) Or say from what Zen picture as I know you like that model more

@Leo Gura Question Leo, I know you had a session with Ramaji. Have you ever had sessions/ worked with any other teachers/ masters of our time, or are you mainly flying solo with the psyches?

@Mikael89 Buy why are you saying you can't change anything lol. Millions have before you and millions will after you, yeah it's not easy, but the quicker you start and gain momentum the easier it will be. What are you suggesting you can't change?

@Mikael89 I honesty thought you was joking, why are you even doing this work then lol if you believe you can't change anything about you? Your whole thing is simply a belief that you have reinforced to the point it is your identity, @Leo Gura can you help me out here lol. You can change your life, you think everyone here was just gifted and it just happened to them? I know I wasn't I used to be overweight, had severe Acne, a shitty diet and was a hardcore atheist etc etc You can change your whole life, that's literally the point of Personal Development work and Self Realization. You're also coming at it from a very martialist paradigm, in fact the brain is actually within consciousness if you want to go into it, all your thoughts and beliefs are coming from awareness, I promise you with the right approach and with small steps you can transform your life. So, what exactly is going wrong that you want to change? How do you think Heroin addicts changed their lives, or severely depressed people, it wasn't by playing the victim and blaming their brain for their circumstances

@Mikael89 I'm guessing I've been really stupid and you're being sarcastic lol.

@Eugenio Maybe she is doing that I'm unsure,I feel that book is more for Empaths looking to find their way, maybe the title is misleading. Btw people charge for spiritual teachings, if it's their job there's nothing wrong with that as long as they help you, I pay my teacher, at the end of the day they're giving up their time and deserve to live life comfortably like anyone else, if your bug is with people earning a living for spirituality you'll need to work through that! I'm going, to be honest, your messages are hard to interpret as they are all one paragraph and chop and change topics synonymously, could you please explain what you're asking? Yes, some people are greedy, unfortunately, that's the world we live in. How do you define greed though is my question?

@Leo Gura I'm really glad to see this from you man, a lot of people here seem to take shit so seriously, go out and enjoy life!!!!

@Eugenio Empaths are simply Highly Sensitive People, basically they absorb others emotions like a sponge and this can cause real issues, if you want to understand more there's lots on Amazon/ YouTube about it, I know a few myself and this is definitely 'real' so to speak, you can even find forums online, it's a real issue that needs specific techniques to address and deal with it. For lightworkers and fairies I personally haven't seen them or researched too much, I researched Empaths in detail for both my own understanding and for work reasons, although I know witchcraft is growing a lot as well, these supernatural 'abilities' certainly exist, but vary from person to person and I wouldn't worry about them unless you actually have them, focus on your own awakening and finding your own path. There's certainly scammers out there like there is in every endeavour, spirituality is certainly not free of corruption, although truly self realized beings (People I class at LOC 1000) would not take part in this scamming, or scandalling. You don't need drugs at all, plenty have got there without them, in fact the majority have, however I acknowledge they can help a lot of people gain insights into the nature of reality, so it's up to if that's your path but I really don't recommend it for under 25s due to the brain still developing. Personally I feel working with a teacher 1-1 and receiving spiritual transmissions are the most efficient path but I'm biased as that's my path just as those on the Psyches path are biased to that, we're all biased in some way haha! If you wanna connect please message me mate, I know what it's like to feel lost on this path, in fact I was depressed for a long while on this path, and to where I am now I still am so grateful for what has happened to 'me.' I'd recommend starting a meditation practice if you haven't just beginner level stuff to help calm your mind down a bit before jumping in at the deep end!

@Eugenio Strongly disagree here on a number of your points. In fact, there's a phrase 'The Stink of Enlightenment' where people think they are better because they're enlightened, and they likely are, just not fully self-realized, it's not all or nothing with enlightenment there are different depths to it, and I would go as far as to say a lot of monks are not fully self realized as they are sheltered and have not embraced this very world as their very own selves- think of hermits etc. Also, if someone thinks they are enlightened and they clearly are, that doesn't stop them being enlightened, again it means they could get stuck there instead of going beyond enlightenment, non-duality and a host of other concepts to finally realize the true absolute beyond all words. At the end of the day, just because someone chooses to be a monk doesn't mean they are fully enlightened, in fact they will, of course, be biased to the monks way of life and believe that is the best path to enlightenment, when it isn't for all people, everyone is different and for most westerners I'd say the monkhood path isn't ideal.

@Mikael89 You do not have a bad brain I'm sorry man, and the more you tell yourself that the worse it'll be. Maybe grab some Tony Robbins style self-help to get you out of this flunk, motivate yourself, set some goals, start a business/ career goals, exercise and start gym, eat properly, optimize your sleep, there's literlly 1000s of ways to overcome this bad brain bs. Do you think the most successful people just got there by chance?

@FuriousGeorge Completely agree mate, any business can be run consciously or unconsciously treating each customer well and not focusing solely on profit, you don't have to run an eco-friendly fruitarian solar powered cafe for a business to be conscious.

@Nickyy Not always as black and white as that, for example, financial freedom then allows you to pursue your LP without the worry of paying your rent. Also, allows you amazing experiences etc you might not of been able to get, I'd say it's best to think strategically in each situation and act accordingly. @Rigel Pretty sure he said it's trading.