LfcCharlie4

@fridjonk Indeed my friend, who do you support? A few weeks can really change a season, and Corona could still ruin the rest of this one!

@Javfly33 Check this mate- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptkH0uK1uXM @loub is this the video you was talking about? (The end of the video had me smiling at my Laptop like a crazy person )

@SoonHei you too man, it's a sticking point for a lot of seekers, I used to myself 'demonise' thinking and think I couldn't think anymore, when in reality when you experience it experientially, thoughts just stop being an issue anymore

@Javfly33 What changes is there is no 'Me' the thoughts and feelings are about, but there is still thoughts and feelings. You don't NEED thoughts to function, as The Absolute has always and will always take care of everything. Need the toilet? Your body will let you know. Need to eat? The sensation of Hunger will rise. Etc When you truly understand this teaching you're always in a 'Thought-Free' state as thoughts are no longer a 'problem' for you like they were. However, this doesn't mean you never have thoughts, yet when you do you remain 'Thought-Free' it sounds extremely paradoxical, but it's saying thoughts aren't a problem anymore so whether they are there or not, doesn't matter. Also, you can still use thought as a tool. Say you're doing your taxes, or planning your trip, that's a good time to utilize the tool. But like with a Laptop, once finished with the tool, you put it away. An awakened accountant will still use thoughts on the job, but could still effortlessly abide in the ever thought free 'state' of The Absolute. Hope this makes sense

@Visionary Thank you man, I'm glad it could help in anyway! What are you about there's no human to feel anger or disappointment????? No, but in all seriousness was gutted, we actually played very well and was let down by a certain someone. Also, very worried how much the Madrid fans spread Corona as somehow the UK government let them come over despite Madrid being in lockdown.... My friends enjoyed us losing at least and made that very clear! Tbh though I think sports events can really act as a great metaphor for dealing with emotions. Francis Lucille talks about this as he plays Tennis, ultimately we know it doesn't matter what happens, our true self remains the same either way. However, getting completely lost in the game and wanting to win the game is part of playing. The difference is your happiness is not dependent on the outcome of the game anymore, and if you lose it's okay with you. In my case, I went through tension, elation, complete joy, anger, despair, deflation, followed by upset and disappointment in the end. I felt all these emotions fully as they arose, and then let them pass, and in terms of the 'Negative' emotions, there isn't a little me they get 'stuck' around anymore, but this doesn't mean they aren't fully felt. In fact, they are more fully felt than ever before, but then simply let go after. Today I am as happy as I was yesterday because The Self/ Awareness etc remains completely unaffected whether we won or lost or whether the game was canceled due to Corona! I think the good old Bhagavad Gita puts it best- Complete involvement without true attachment to the outcomes or fruits of your actions. Either way, I will remain happy and fulfilled as this doesn't depend on anything 'external.' Here's Francis explaining it well @Javfly33 Each situation is unique mate! However, I would in some cases (such as Shinzen Young as the person above mentioned) awakening doesn't simply instantly deal with all issues, and therapy/ whatever else is needed can also be needed post-awakening. Shadow work can be revealing post-awakening and can also involve a certain level of 'work.' I think @Haumea2018 could also explain more on that issue. However, if for you, you feel therapy has ran it's course in it's own life, maybe in your situation, it's time to let it go, and 'focus' as such on awakening. I don't think there's a 'one size fits all' answer and that each unique being will have different needs depending on a number of factors. I would argue in most cases, awakening would be much 'easier' when you aren't constantly depressed and anxious, as that may make it difficult to sustain any sort of investigation or meditation. And, if you have an even more complex Mental Illness I think that's a different story altogether. But, I think a case by case approach is the 'ideal' approach, and therapy could be necessary for some, but not for all. @Nahm Are you from the UK, if so please don't tell me you're a Man City fan.... If in your case you do not need therapy, then great

@Raptorsin7 Honestly, if you have toxic psychology, don't rule out typical psychological work being able to help. For example, I have a very addictive personality, and that hasn't changed post-awakening,, what it has done has allowed me to be much more honest and aware of this issue and as a result, take the required actions. And, I agree, after all, Self-Realization is simply that, the realization of the truth of our own being. That's like chapter 3/20 say, then there's actually living the understanding in all areas of life (embodiment), integrating and dealing with any issues you face, and of course, still being HUMAN which many Non-Duality worshippers forget. You aren't suddenly going to grow wings and fly. While the teaching itself is incredibly simple, it doesn't mean there isn't nuances and issues we may face post-awakening that need to be dealt with appropriately.

@Harikrishnan Yes, I mean most of these stories are passed down from thousands of years ago so both mine and yours could be untrue but the message is very clear in both of them and in Ramana's picture you showed. Yeah, I don't preach, my whole family eats meat, as do all my friends and my GF and her family, I am very grateful they serve me Vegan food when I am round and am grateful for my mum understanding my decision to go Vegan, originally it was for Acne + Ethics, now it is, as I see it, a way of living the understanding in the realm of consuming food. When you do go vegan, just make sure to do your research, eat a well balanced Plant-Based diet and supplement with B12, you live in India I'm guessing so probably won't need vitamin D3 as I do over here in the UK! Anyways have a great day.

@Raptorsin7 Yes of course! Self-Realization is always the greatest 'thing' to happen to 'me' too, and nothing beats abiding peace and happiness. Simultaneously, I am just wary many simply are not ready to hear that they don't actually have a little me, and the little 'I' is nothing more than a fiction story, so for those people, you may look to recommend an alternative first. However, of course, if someone appears to be ready, the best thing you can do is help them see the truth of their own being. I still feel even post-awakening, there is still room for more typical 'PD' work such as optimizing health, Shadow& Emotional work, improving relationships. building a business/ life purpose etc. But, like you said all of that becomes far easier without an I-thought getting in your way and resisting. Someone mentioned yesterday after decades of enlightenment Shinzen Young still needed to go to therapy to sort out some emotional issues! I guess I'm trying to say Self-Realization is more like being reborn and starting to truly live life, rather than it being a complete end to life. Now you have the complete freedom to do as you wish in life, and you are no longer expecting happiness and fulfillment from objects, relationships, activities etc so these also have a kind of freedom that allows you to enjoy them even more. A great paradox!

@Raptorsin7 I know what you're saying, but just be wary that what worked for you, may not be the ideal path for everyone, often it's not as simple as that. If someone has the burning desire for truth like we did then go for it, but if that isn't there, that's when I would say you can appropriate the understanding as a direct response to the situation

@Raptorsin7 I would slightly disagree man. It all depends where someone is in life, for example, if someone is struggling financially it's probably best they sort that out While/Before serious awakening work as it can give them more freedom/ relieve the stress around financial worries etc. Also, post-awakening you can both start another business, upgrade your own or simply sell your current business, I do agree that awakening can help a lot with aligning your business to the understanding and building a business based on love and wanting to create value as it's main purpose. I'm just saying I wouldn't say there's one path for everyone, some people imo need other parts of PD before going straight for enlightenment. Like say someone is obese and unemployed, of course, recommend meditation, but telling them they are God probably isn't meeting them where they are at in that case. For them, it's probably more advisable to dive into health, Exercise, get a job or maybe start a business and putting awakening on the backburner if you get me?

Found this old blog of Francis' full of his Q+As with students. I haven't read through all of them, but I was searching for the quote under my name as I read it in 1000, and came across this blog, which will be extremely helpful for those confused about certain topics on the path, or wondering how a truly self-realized westerner integrates this understanding. Francis Lucille is also Rupert Spira's teacher and teaches Advaita as part of the 'Direct Path' and was taught by Jean Klein who has unfortunately passed away. Happy reading! https://francis.ugjka.net/eng/index.html It's also in multiple languages I think!

@loub I couldn't agree more!! I too agree there is 'Human' and 'Shadow' work still to do post-awakening, which I am still doing. I LOVE there's someone on here who actually understands we are still fucking human post-awakening, and still experience emotions as you say! Sorry if my post came off as transcending or denying your humanity, I often try and say the complete opposite and am thankful to have such human teachers who have helped me understand this as well. As you say Self-Realization is the realization of the truth about our own being, we know we are The Self, we and everyone always Is, but we become conscious of this post-awakening. While there is no separate self as you say, there is still humanity, a unique expression, a personality and EMOTIONS/THOUGHTS, people for some reason don't like to admit that but there is. Shinzen Young was actually my teacher's partner Ramajis teacher, he is an incredible master and perfect for westerners coming from a more rationally minded background. I think I remember him saying about therapy in one of his videos I watched but this was years ago I watched it tbf so could be wrong. The post was more intended to say, meet people where they are at and be with them there. I'm a 20-year-old male from England so when I'm out with my friends what do we mostly talk about? Typical 20-year-old stuff like Football, certainly not Non-Duality And, I would say Awakening in my experience has made it a lot easier to do shadow work and does have certain 'changes' but more in terms of no resistance to the now, and the realization of there not being a 'Me' at the center of all this etc. However, if anything it has made me more human, more myself, and more emotional than before. If anything, true human life only begins post-awakening! It's almost like being reborn again. But, there's still a human experience, however, you want to phrase it, true awakening allows our humanity to flourish not wither away into a depression sense of nothingness. Here's some quotes from Ananda's book on the Paradox of being both The Self/Absolute, and a unique individual simultaneously: 'This clear seeing enables me to live both as that unlimited nothingness and as this playful personal I AM at the same time. This I AM is indivisibly ONE with infinity. Therefore, the ultimate truth is that I AM THAT.' 'This Divine fire then spits you out to be a unique dynamic version of itself. This wisdom of space dances carefree as this I AM.' 'This day and every day I bask in the non-dual knowing of nothingness which translates experientially into the profound pleasure of being an individual too. the clarity of being able to be both fully at once is the final peace and joy. The freedom is in the 'Duality' as well as the 'Non-Duality. It is not one or the other. IT is both yet it is neither' (I would add both Duality and Non-Duality are simply concepts, all that is, is THIS, and even that is saying too much!) The LAST thing I want to imply is that you will no longer be human, it's the complete opposite, embrace your humanity and be YOU, both YOU as The Self, and YOU as your unique expression! And, lastly in regards to seekers believing awakening makes them superhuman, I couldn't agree more, I see it often on here. In reality, Self-Realization is the most humbling thing of all, it is a realization YOU are literally as everyone and everything, how could you believe you are superior or inferior after that. I hope that makes it clear- EMBRACE YOUR HUMANITY!

@Visionary That's awesome, I agree you first have to become aware of the issue you are facing first before any healing can take place. Just like how an alcoholic has to become aware they have a problem before they can quit. It's the first step to healing.

@4201 You can completely accept something, and then take the action required. You can accept having cancer and then deciding to get treatment. You can accept being obese and then decide to sort out your eating and exercise habits. You can accept having a painful headache and then taking an aspirin to relieve the pain. It's not like if you're self-realized and then the body suffers in any way you won't try and heal yourself, it's just you'll unconditionally accept the Now as it is, and then take any action you wish. Maybe that will mean allowing the cancer to spread all over your body and kill you, or maybe that means doing everything you can to heal it. Whatever arises within you to do. If I or a family was to get cancer now I would first, of course, accept whatever arises in the now, but would then take the appropriate course of treatment. I can't say I would do that in the future though. Medicines/ Healing etc is THAT too. However, I do agree with you on several aspects, above is more taken from the relative level, in terms of what 'action' we would take in response to certain situations. I agree that Illness, Death, losing an arm etc are not a problem for anyone, from the Perspective of The Self/Awareness/ God there is only itself, therefore, there isn't actually anything to cure and the illness simply isn't a problem for anything but a Mind. Whether the body is relieved of it's illness& pain, or whether it doesn't make any difference to The Self, it will always be as it is no matter what happens. For example, right now 'I' have a slight headache (probably from too much time on my laptop working) but that does not change anything from the point of view from awareness. Simply there is a sensation arising that is commonly labeled 'Headache' once I take an aspirin and the headache goes, nothing changes for The Self, it is still EXACTLY as it was! I want to leave you with a few lines from Rupert Spira (sorry @fridjonk for quoting ) as he summarised this well, in response to a question. 'You say, “So it would seem then that illness is merely a reflection of conditioned mind in the body, and from the standpoint of Knowing Presence could be healed through the right understanding of our true substance.” However, from the standpoint of Knowing Presence, there is only itself. Knowing Presence simply knows its own unqualified being. There is nothing there to cure. It does not need a perfect body to reside in its own being. The problem is for the mind. If we acknowledge that the interpretation ‘illness’ is in the mind, then by the same token we acknowledge that that which knows the mind is free of illness. So the right understanding of our true substance does not imply that illness should be cured simply as a result of that understanding but rather that the idea of illness itself will be seen in the right perspective. Behind your question is the deep belief that illness and therefore death is a problem and that the knowing of our true substance would relieve this problem. However, when death ceases to be a problem, illness ceases to be a problem. We simply do what is necessary at the relative level. When it rains we put up an umbrella. When we’re tired we sleep. When the body is ill we treat it in the appropriate way…..just appropriate action coming from love and intelligence. And all the time we simply remain our self, intimately one with all appearances, acting appropriately from moment to moment, yet at peace in our own being at the same time.' No matter what happens, our true nature is never affected, however, this doesn't mean at the relative level we can't do what is necessary in response to situations, it just means it has NO effect on what we truly are Summary- The body is going to die at some point, do what we can on a relative level to take care of our bodies and our health and heal where we feel necessary, however illness and deaths are not a problem for The Self. No matter what happens, it is never a problem for our true nature. When you see through the illusion of the Separate Self, death& illness is no longer a problem, as you know YOU can't die, only the body drops away. If you are suffering from illness and chronic pain etc, there is no reason not to attempt to heal it, unless you are using the suffering as some form of practice. After all, Medicine, Painkillers are THAT too, and we may as well enjoy the time we have in this body!

@Gneh Onebar Not sure about that, although he says how all illnesses can be healed with the mind I believe, although I haven't watched him in a while so might not be 100% correct.

There's some Spiral Dynamics groups on FB that might help, or maybe there might be online groups somewhere

@Haumea2018

@fridjonk Well, then there's also semantics here at play. It seems to me what you're talking about here is deep awakening experiences and I agree during awakening these things happen, and it can often take time to then integrate back into life after this. And, yeah all words are rendered useless, everything is, however, we're having a discussion on an online forum so not sure what else we can use, I constantly say the highest teaching is in silence as The Absolute is pure silence, to speak it is to already make some sort of concession. There is just THIS. However, I am merely talking about the integration of Self-Realization in terms of expressing and living this understanding in life. In my experience, there is still a Personality, Interests, An Enneagram type, etc If that's not your experience then it's not, I'm not denying it's all imaginary, It's all The Self, It's All THIS, that's as far as words can go really, that's why they are just pointers. I never said Ramana or Nisgardatta knew something I didn't everything they 'knew' is within me, just like it's within you, they aren't special or authority, in fact true awakening humbles you and makes you realise there is NO hierarchy, we are all The Self, so there is no superiority of becoming 'Enlightened' in fact Enlightenment, Spirituality, Non-Duality etc All concepts that have their function but ultimately THIS is the truth. Sorry if me quoting others made you think I think there is some form of Authority, that couldn't be further from the truth. Simply, they are beings who have fully recognized the truth of their own being. Anyways, we're going back and forth a lot here, and I'm not sure we are achieving much! In summary- THIS IS ITTTTTTTT.

@Harikrishnan Yeah I posted Ramana, and yeah he's probably sitting on that as some sort of message, as he's next to a westerner, although I don't know the origins of that exact photo. However, the Buddha also had a similar situation, where a piece of meat landed on his disciple's plate randomly, and despite the Buddha teaching against animal slaughtering for food in that scenario, he allowed it as he didn't want the Monk to reject what the Universe had given him. To me, I see unless you HAVE to eat meat, there is no need to, it is an act of killing another sentient being for your pleasure. It is not in accordance with the teaching of Non-Violence, or realizing The Self is ALL, so why would you want to harm another being unless you HAD to? There are countless examples of great sages being vegetarian- Buddha, Ramana, Sadhguru, Francis Lucille, Rupert Spira etc I already quoted Ramana so won't do so again, there would've been a reason he sat on that, his whole life was dedication to the practice of Non-Violence and Equality for all sentient beings Like I said I even disagree with my own teachers on this who I am constantly recommending on here, to me consuming animal products is not in line with expressing this understanding, it's not to say you can't be an awakened meat-eater, of course you can, I just think there really is ZERO need to consume animal products in 2020 unless you have reasons you can't be healthy on a plant-based diet.

This is like saying why is Peace and Happiness a 'good' thing? Awaken and then see what Consciousness truly is!

@VeganAwake Same! For my age and considering I run an online business I'm such a tech noob lol, Go to Account setting and it's there mate!

@VeganAwake Yes, like the quote below my name says

@VeganAwake What he is saying is that when people don't have this understanding it SEEMS like things matter. Just like when people don't have this understanding it SEEMS like there is a separate self, there isn't of course but if you ask a normal person, they BELIEVE they have a separate me, even though they are too The Self, they just aren't conscious of it. And, yes, self-realization is like moving to a new city, you still have to learn where everything is and where the best restaurants and everything else is though! I do agree he could've phrased that slightly better though, I felt the video was slightly cut a tad short

This whole discussion Francis answers in 5 mins: If you Truly understand, absolutely, that nothing matters, you have found what Truly matters so it isn’t a problem for you.” (Happiness!!!!)

@VeganAwake Yes! Spontaneous action based on whatever arises, I don’t know what will arise tomorrow, but honestly I’m not bothered as NOW is so amazing and to be embraced fully, without any resistance what so ever. And, great point about suffering, after seeing through the separate self, emotions and thoughts no longer have a “me” to latch on to, they simply flow through awareness with no resistance. However, in my experience you feel emotions even more deeply, but simultaneously let them go once they have been felt. Without a “me” there is no stickiness.