Eph75

Blue shadow in green stage, forcing conformity through radical measures. A lot of young people being pushed fast towards/into green have huge shadows. Online phenomena adopting value sets not grown into the stage in a tradition sense, faking it until making it becomes real, and deep shadows remain. There being a tendency to move through SD stages in an hopscotch fashion, touching down with one foot in some stages while having both feet firmly into the mud of other stages, the strong "stereotypical" greens that we see who give cancel culture a face are the progression of "stereotypical" blue, and thus not surprisingly have stronger blue shadows than orange ones. Same theory implies stronger red shadows in orange extremes, individuality and power abuse, and even as the battling of lingering achiever mentality when reaching yellow.

@Waken Well, yes, everything is always more complex than any single one post on forum can convey. There are certainly times and places where things may need to end, where abuse and suffering is greater than any possible shift within self would ever be possible or acceptable. The deepest acceptance still makes a slap in the face a sensation that happens. Although, "often" it's all tricks being played by the ego that makes it perceived a certain way, and it being wrongfully so, even more so and harder to distinguish at younger age. There's always going to be a devil "out there" and we can distract ourselves by spending out energies on identifying, chasing and battling those devils. Yet, the hell we endure is within us, and it's within us we create change. What kind of outcomes change amounts to is not really what's relevant, the one relevant aspect is our own change in relative perception of what that reality is or should be. With that change the outcomes can still be leaving, cutting ties and so on. These would not be escaping suffering with new sufferings appearing on the next horizon, and soon enough, but as significant change is our way of being. Well-being isn't relative to parents, belongings etc ? it lies in the transension of the constructed meaning we apply to what is. We ultimate create and choose what will be inside our reality. Where that choices come from makes all the difference.

Lengthy as usual and pulling away from the perceived narrative. Approval has a distaste of giving in to the realization that the underlying desire can't or won't be met. A defeat of sorts - the stepping down a level on a hierarchical ladder in favor of other, or the approval that the step you stand on is your place to be, being not worthy, good enough, etc. to be elsewhere. Full acceptance of what is, rather is the removal of the notion of there ever having been a ladder to stand on to begin with, and that ladder being a construct of your mind. Without a yardstick that enables comparison, being is without subject of comparison. Replacing desire to be a leader or the desire not to be a follower, with a forced desire to be a follower ain't it, that's swapping one desire with another desire. Detaching from our desires removes the categorization or labeling that define you as one way or another. That desire can still remain as a drive, but not being emotionally attached to it, and to outcomes that we want. You'd just be a guy on vacation, enjoying the experience, not driven by neurotic behaviors and impulses arising from a negative mental space, not caught up with mental games. Walking up to your dad and chatting with him would be just that, a chat, not a challenging of an hierechially established rank within the tribe that your family represents. Just a guy enjoying the scenary, and a conversation. What needs dropping to be able to be that guy? Although this doesn't mean that he's not trying hard to be that for whatever reasons, we all go through our personal hells that we need to deal with, but it can also be the result of not being too much in his head about things, finding it enjoyible to participate with what going on with a positive attitude towards it. People like that kind of ease of being, other people are also drawn towarda that, as such people radiates energy and positive vibrations, and such people are "offered" space to lead. Also natural leaders don't try to be leaders and being the leader isn't as important as it is doing what feels right, leading from within. Essentially you don't know where he is coming from, without actually exploring that (asking). But on the other hand, you'd be likely to be disappointed regardless of what you find out, as it's just creating more gap between your desired reality and reality as you perceive it - that discrepancy is what defines unhappiness, and the imagined removal of that gap, defines happiness. This not really being about him, but all about you. The paradox is that as long as we try to control circumstances to force reality towards our desired ideal of what reality should be, we're in for a bad ride, and a lot of hardship and suffering along the road. Getting entangled with external phenomena doesn't help us grow, that growth in an internal process of change. And it's not about chasing the fulfilling of every desire that arises. Yet, we are naturally drawn towards a path of suffering to such a point where we spontaneously reject the false beliefs that created that very suffering, replacing them with new beliefs, beliefs that hopefully takes us closer to truth realization and not deeper into dillusion, and more suffering. That's the rolling of the dice, and at that point of suffering, at the tipping point, rolling snake-eyes finally may bring about the confrontation of the actual snake - yourself. The solution is to address desire as a phenomenon not as an object to pursue. The question become how can you do so without first meeting eye to eye with the snake, and to bypass all that potential suffering? Maybe you can't. I don't have an answer here. I certainly didn't bypass anything, racing full speed straight into my own imaginary stone wall. The paradox is, that the less attached you become towards reaching desired outcomes, the less neurotic and forced the journey will be. And it's all about the traveling, not the getting there. There is no end station. That's our desires creating apparitions. You can still pursue doing, and outcomes still can happen, often more easily so, but they won't be linked to or coming from deficiency needs. Without desires, fewer desires, or less strong attachment to desires, we can still do stuff because it's enjoyible or supported by our current perspectives and values. With strong desires we approach the same forcefully and there is something on the stake in that process. Who we can be, and who we are, is much determined by how we can be in that moment. Going on vacation isn't about leading, but it easily gets defined by such a deficiency need "to lead" and etches in as a less enjoyible experience, as you forgot about Being in that moment, and instead got caught up in your head about such things as who walked in what order, or whatever replaces that desire once you manage to overcome it. Let go of such desires, not replacing it with a new desire, and you'd enjoy Being. Where in line you walk no longer matter, first or last. Introspection around the nature of desires helps becoming able to let go. Does it feel counterintuitive that from here, natural leadership is closer to hand, as self-leadership becomes realized?

Well, you just said it yourself. What if accepting that following is okay, it opens up for the freedom and space to shift towards becoming involved and engaged in ways where personal leadership is cultivated and allows leadership as a wider phenomena to emerge? Desires mess with us in such elaborate ways. Eliminating the underlying neurotic aspect of a desire, the freedom to do emerges - or - quite likely, simply diminishes the desire so there is no longer need to pursue.

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This is an interesting entertinment of playful thoughts. What's more interesting is that thought defaulting towards MEN having multiple WIVES, but looking at the dynamics shifted compared to male dominated times of past or more primitive current societies, and the relationship power is clearly being shifted towards females, this would rather imply WOMEN having multiple HUSBANDS. Men wouldn't have to worry about managing as you'd as a man likely be managed, being a function in a multifunctional male "harem" fulfilling and providing towards FEMALE needs based on one's skillset. Lack of the primal sexual drives such as men have, the odds are more leaning towards men not being a sexual force in such an harem but a labor or some kind of intellectual tool, maintaining a rank between the accepted males within that harem. It would leave gaps where females lose the ability to choose in the same way, and that further implies multi-female led harems where a single or few men are collectively used for sexual pleasure and reproductive needs with strong biological lines, and all others are such asexual tools. An arising of strong matriarchs But no, although not too far fetched, that's just an alternative reality/dimension, or the narrative for a fictional book.

@Manofthepeople You're very welcome. A very important aspect to keep in mind when approaching creating a constructive conversation is to deliberately disarm the other's party's defensive mechanism. This is no easy feat. Essentially, if you approach the conversation from a similar direction as you've done before, it's going to jerk the same triggers in your parents and yourself, as been firing off in past conversation. It also calls for the awareness of one's own triggers, tone of voice, body and facial expressions, with and active effort to keep these in check. It can be extremely difficult depending on where the conversation shifts, so deliberately moving the conversation in a direction that increases the chance of achieving desired outcomes over time helps. It will need effort, but it really is an investment for life. To be honest, one single constructive conversation can alter a relationship at its core and reap a lifetime of benefits. Looking at the bigger picture, way beyond this financial hickup, lack of connection and communication is often then root cause of most problems we go through. Often it's very useful to approach stuff in a very different, unexpected way, and often the appeal to the other's authority, wisdom and advice is an excellent approach, as it sets an initial tone and direction that is starting out in a relaxed and open way. Essentially an initial peace offering. If self-referencing it helps tremendously as well, such references as "I've realized that I've been xyz and I don't want to come out that way, and I would really appreciate if you would consider helping me to get past it" This is where letting go of pride comes in, because if we feel very proud and have a sense of needing to uphold our own ego, to win conversations and so on, these kinds of approaches doesn't show up viable options. What do you see for yourself would happen if you approached them today and asked for their help to become financially responsible, asking them what they think that means and that you want to collaborate getting there? I bet that would feel awkward for you, i.e. a real growth opportunity. What do you imagine they would say or feel if you approached them, not from a defensive position but from a position of actually looking for their support and advice? I bet they would be rather surprised. What do you think such an approach would do to help shifting your commimunication mode towards a more constructive one, and over time allow for mutual exchanges based on a greater understanding for each other's standpoint?

@Preety_India Primitive behavior, essentially cock fighting, the stronger party winning the favor of some female. Establishing hierarchy, power and status inbetween men. Can be done in other more peaceful ways that are strength-based, such as arm-wrestling or "playful" fighting or wrestling, comparing strength. More often occurring with younger, immature men, probably correlating with high levels of testosterone and insecurities. Used verbally about third party as desire to maintain sense of own status towards others, but without any need for confrontation, often as you say, directed towards someone perceived violating moral values. An interesting personal observation is that when I go the pub I often get looks from other men as if they want to kill me. Men that I've never seen before nor interacted with in any way, shape or form. Seemingly completely random. I find that hilarious as I am very peaceful and friendly. I'm fairly certain this is because of my appearance and being 193 cm tall, causing some immature men to feel a need to maintain their own perceived hierarchy and status, essentially addressing insecurities in self arising. As I child, probably somewhere around 6 years of age, I've had few other boys tell me say stuff like "my dad can beat up your dad any time", sounding dead serious, which is equally hilarious, almost cute. Same phenomena but via proxy. People who easily turn towards violence as a solution create neural pathways that more easily default toward violent behavior when under pressure or threat. Speaking of primitive responses, do some women like it when two men fight over them, finding that elevating their own status through affirmation of being valuable?

@Unio Jokes aside, install a hand held shower nozzle by the toilet, wash using soap or whatever product you see fit, or just use water.

Demolition Man had one solution

Sounds like a good solution. Allows you to save money in the process. Cutting that sentence before you went into the "but", that sounds like they care and worry about your finances and want to to grow financially responsible. You say they save it for you, so it's then your hard earned savings. Smart move! Had you thought of that yourself, that would have been brilliant! Essentially they could've asked you to pay rent, electrical, insurance, food etc. Both methods can help building financial maturity, and that savings plan sounds like a double reward to you in that process. So I sense you in a way feeling "abused" in that's process, as it's forced in nature, and against your will. Letting go of sense of pride, and looking at this as objectively as possible, would you define yourself as a financially responsible person? And having shown this being so. Is their "intervention" absolutely irrational? Or is it based on past behaviors not included here? A drawer is financially unwise, there's also risk of theft etc, especially if it's a significant amount of money. It would be better to invest in some way, but still the money is still saved right? If they said they saved it for you, but used it for other purposes, that would be dishonest. But that doesn't seem to be the case right? Whether the money is in a bank account, trust, index fund or whatever, is more a formality with some consequences connected to those money growing or not. Would it be possible that they do this out of love for you, and the desire to help you become financially responsible, but it's coming out the wrong way? Communication isn't always easy and things coming out more harsh than they should, and that being interpreted more negative than called for. Stuff like this often also is discussed when aggitated, which is a bad idea. How can you communicate your wanting to build responsibility, the gaining of their trust, and what that would look like, and how they would help you with this, without it being an argument? Sometimes we need to pause and try seeing things from a different perspective. Are you acting like a child? This might be a call for growing up. It doesn't necessarily have to mean becoming financially independent and moving out, as it's a great way to save some funds being able to live at home for a while while getting ones shit together, but that should by no means be allowed to prevent maturing. Have you managed to have a constructive conversation around this, to try and understand what they want from you and what you could do to meet that. You're living with them after all. And it sounds like they REALLY care, based on what you've written here. Don't! Looking for help to figure one's shit out is a strength and not a weakness. You should be proud to muster up the strength to do so. Just be careful about ending up in a blame and justification game as that path leads nowhere good To me, based on this small window of insight you've provided towards your world, it sounds like you guys just need to connect in a deeper way and seek a new level of communicating with each other.

@Soulife96 This old thread might be helpful to you.

@fopylo Although, doing the work needed, going deeper, is also what eventually gets you out. As long as there's this fundamental understanding that the work must goes on, and not being discouraged by the obstacles thrown onto your path. The risk is in getting lost, and giving up, before pushing through onto the other side. I speak hypothetically, since I didn't really get stuck, my experience progressively worsened as I freed myself from the limitations I was conscious of, until disowned and unconscious shadows remained, and to such a point that the solution presented itself, via desperate action from my part, and the right response from someone who did not know me. I do believe that happened by design, an unfolding of events in a certain way, and when the time is right for it. I've never experienced suicidal thoughts, although I have actively categorized suicide as not an option, and that thought certainly came from somewhere.

I feel like I'm raping your original topic, but it's your thread so it's up to you to say when we've gotten derailed So that could be seen as irony - or post realization phun. Either I was acting retarded and misinterpreted what being is about and bashed myself for no reason whatsoever - OR - I was unconsously and yet universally consciously bashing myself towards increasing my own suffering leading towards that breaking point, as a calling to waking up? You decide it is irrelevant from my POV. I'm not. Yes that sounds strange. What is, is. Regrets or wishing undoing is the fuel of suffering. She symbolizes my equilibrium, how can I wish undoing that. Yes, still sounds strange, I know. It wasn't a good experience, but in a sense it was the calling for me to get my shit in shape. It also got my sister's shit in shape. We both recognize the good outcome. Still an unfortunate death of a beautiful young girl. It was, period. You know the saying "what does not kill us makes us stronger"? I'm sure you do. Suffering either breaks us and we're doomed a lifetime of suffering, no way back - Or - it is becomes the catalyst for development and growth, and at its "worst", the "best", awakening. Question is, in that gambling, is it really you rolling that dice? In a way, yes, it really is "funny", in an inronic sense. It REALLY comes downs to realizing that your current beliefs are false and to shift towards more "true" beliefs. What the excessive suffering does is shun, reject, expell, throw our your current set of beliefs, as that suffering has proven those beliefs "not true", from a subjective POV, which leads to the acceptance of adopting new, seemingly, "truer" believes. Who is better to prove ourselves wrong, then ourselves? That breaking down makes you more humble, humble toward your own dogma, towards your chosen current set of beliefs/paradigm, flexible towards multiple perspectives of others as you've just shifted perspective by own admittance, and so on. Most of all, it awakens a hunger of desire to further shift away from one's current beliefs, the increase of curiosity to find out where you've been wrong, where you've expressed dogma and so on, and so on. Tools are the means of this, meditation is a means to this. Meditation is something of a gimmick, and a tool as soon as you see the vast benefits of can bring to relieviating being-ness. Seeing an increased benefit from meditation is just a thing, something of a tool in that unfolding. One of many tools. I'll stop ranting now. There's an endless flow of this crap from within. Needs to stop somewhere, closing the valve here

Dropping being defined by methods for moment, there definetly is a time to feel into and investigate those thoughts. When that happens and what we call that matters less. Going along with thought stories, getting carried away with them is useful to raise awareness, and gain deeper understanding, but eventually there needs to be a time where also healing happens, where patterns are broken. I don't really have any advice, other than not forcing that "void" to happen, as you say, might be synonymous with suppressing something in the process. It never was forced onto me, it just appeared as part of the process evolving, first in meditation after sitting closer to an hour, later as a deliberately induced state. When it first appeared, I was more-so pulled into it, almost falling into it, and as a relex/knee-jerk reaction was pulled right back out again. Essentially 7 years since I started some form of active work. But have become aware of my meditative-contemplative behavior that I've had ever since I was a child, doing deep contemplation, and developing a sensitivity towards emotional signals, something of a superpower. I wisely used this superpower up to my middle 30's to effectively shatter my self-esteem It's the last 6 years that has been deliberate about this stuff, tipping point was the suicide of my 14 year old niece and some other more-or-less coinciding events that just got too much to handle and short after I saw a therapist for the first time, to deal with emotional exhaustion. Actual sitting meditation though, I've just been doing since 2017. I do think that time isn't as important as what that time entails. Amp up the suffering and you accelerate things, towards breaking free, or simply breaking down.

Great stuff Other non-supportive people will still be there as part of our experience, and them not being assigned any significant attached meaning, they won't generate ripples in our being.

The most interesting, and satisfying, aspect I find is that it can happening in real-time, not just in form of something seeming very familiar, but in the moment of experiencing deja vu you might think, "Ha! this is dejta vu, next XYZ will happen" and at the same time that thought arises that next XZY happens. My belief is that this is just a phenomena of not experiencing in real-time and there being a glitch in the "machinery" that serves us with memory/experience in a distorted way, creating that sensation. Fun stuff.

@fopylo Yeah that didn't come out quite right. It was more-so connected to trying too hard to "meditate", worrying about doing it "right" or achieving something particular actually raises thoughts in the process that prevent deeper meditative states Repression and suppression is definetly not the road to go. Letting go carry no meaning. If you're haunted by something powerful/painful letting go is hard, not causing suppressing/repressing in the process, as the thoughts are more-so intrusive for particular reasons. Those posts are very subjective, I've gotten past racing monkey mind, I have self-talk but it's conscious and entertaining or constructive in nature, and letting it go is at this point very easy and carry no meaning in itself. It's like turning off the ceiling light in the room when going to bed, means nothing special, and it gives deeper sleep, and that just makes sense. I used to have highly active and highly negative, self-destructive monkey mind, to such a degree that it felt like "it" was in 100% control over "me". Since becoming aware of this I've worked a lot on this, and the underlying causes. Anywho, side-tracked... I have to admit that I'm confused with the method names, hence my comment about mish-mash and actual method being more-so a result than a selected method, and my "do nothing" isn't the same as yours, which is more actual, and mine sort of not even as the YT video I posted in the sense that my thought space goes quiet fast when I drop engagement with active contemplation. Weaving the method together with the final comments in that video about it may result with silent mind puts the finger on my misrepresented view of the "do nothing" method. Of course this hasn't always been the case, it's a product of my years of meditating and my working through my "issues". Sorry for stirring up some confusion. I realize that my last posts might have come out as advice, which they're certainly not. I rarely share personal stuff, and this was just that and nothing more

I'd say it's not a matter of not being willing to give, but it's the obvious expectation that giving is a given that kills the enjoyment of giving. Where there is unconditional giving, there can be expectation free receiving. Demand and you shall not receive. It's a matter of boundaries. If you're in on it for transactional reasons, be aware of that. Then it's not giving, it's transactional, you're buying something. That's perfectly fine, as long as you're aware of that's what's happening.

@Preety_India Amazing insights. Instead of riding along with the subject and content of that narrative... What does this insight help you feel? What does doing this feel like in the moment of doing, and what does it make you feel afterwards? Does this make you feel powerful and in control? Do you like holding power in your hands? Who do you want to be in all of this - what does your authentic side of self tell you / what does being authentic look like? Is it a simple pleasure you enjoy satisfying, or is it bringing usefulness to your being and help creating great relationships you look for, or is it more just indulging in pleasure in that moment? What are some potential downsides/negative side-effects from doing this?

One sitting, straight sounds a lot but time literally disappeares once you push through the eye of the needle and adapt. If you place expectations on meditation, you inevitably are going to add thought wondering if you are doing it right, why this session isn't going as good as that other session, trying to re-achieve the deepest states you've reached in the past, or re-experience fruitions/sensations phenomena that are unusual and extremely pleasent. If you sit and try to meditate, you're not really meditating. Which takes us to your next question. Practicing mindfulness is such a wide expression, it is simple being attentive about what you are doing with your mind. That ranges from observing thoughts, introspect physical and psychological sensations, and so on, literally just paying attention to what your mind is doing, so that you can shift your mind into thought progresses that are constructive / not destructive. Disengaging with thought is being deliberate about not thinking. Impossible? Essentially, yes, but what this intention results in is working up the ability to switch to complete silence in your mind. The only thoughts that tend to arise in this state are around just that, it being amazing/interesting/there-being-no-thought/oh-that-was-a-thought and so on. Then letting go of that, and intently returning back to no-thought. This is what I do, of course there are a million-and-one other practices you could do, it's just a matter of what works (produces positive/noticeable outcomes) for you. My morning meditation sessions is sitting in Burmese position. My going to bed position is, not surprisingly so, on my back or on my side. Doesn't matter, I sleep on my side so usually I meditate into sleep on my side. Doing it on my back creates a heavier "sink-through-mattress" kind of sensation, but I tend not to fall asleep in this position, which is my ultimate goal at this time. Oh-ho-ho yes well, that's the seductiveness of the mind right? It gets you mesmerized into getting lost into itself. Mental maturation. There are plenty of times to deliberately contemplate (maintaining constructive thought processes), why engage the mind with thought when we go to sleep? The going-to-sleep thinking I used to get engaged with were, before I started meditation, e.g. procrastination, overly-analyzing something, solving imaginary problems in my mind, playing out alternative past and future scenarios and conversations, trying to preplan and control future events, and maybe worst of all, dreaming into states of being that I desired, such as success, wealth, building my dream-house or similar "wants and desires" which essentially takes you away from happiness, and increasing those craving of those desires in that process, taking me even further from true happiness, increasing the suffering. This was just me, but people in general aren't all that different Dedicating this time to the loving acceptance of what is, right now, the perfectness of being in this moment, without add or removing anything at all, except practicing the intent to disengagement with thoughts, really makes you fall in love with the present moment and it's unpretentious simplicity of Now. Now doesn't need thought. NOW that IS cool. Regaring meditation techniques, it's very individual. Try lots of ways and see what works best for you. There's no rule here and what works well for others might not work for you. And also, what is best needed now in order to build a strong practice might be something different than what will would best in a couple of years. The most important part is to build a practice that you accept sticking with for the rest of your life. Making it practical, not feeling forced, not having amped up expectations helps that process. There's no right or wrong, the only outcome is to not getting lost in thoughts, since that's essentially not meditating and instead allowing the monkey mind to to its usual business, just with eyes closed. Techniques are rather to be approached with curiosity and played with. It's still the outcomes that matter, and if they are positive, it doesn't matter what the technique us called, or if it's your own nameless practice. It sounds like you have a good practice already

Looking in the rear mirror doesn't take you backwards, but it does allow you to investigate the past through the present. The beauty with the past is that we can change it, by changing our mind. With shifted new perspective the meaning of the past can and will change. We literally time-travel ever day, when engaging with the past. Change yourself and you rewrite history. Events are of course still events, what is, is, but the meaning of events means everything. Imagine forgivness of the source of every pain of the past. A time-machine it is. The only obstacle is in our minds, and bending the mind, bends reality. ❤️

@Preety_India @fopylo Although, destructive as it might seem, sometimes burning the house down helps with building a new one. Somewhat like puberty and freeing ourselves from our parents, just that we're freeing ourselves from ourselves, from our ego constraints. Challenging status quo sometimes comes out as an overly exaggerated reaction, only to come back down to find a healthy balance. So it doesn't have to be unhealthy, that probably depend on what the deeper drive is and what we want to achieve. Imagine how perfect life would be if we got everything right the first time. We wouldn't have learnt anything at all

@Preety_India Are you sure you need as much a pat on your back as a kick in your butt I sure needed the kick in the butt, and life gave it to me, eventually. Life beat me to a pulp before I was able to open my eyes.

@Preety_India Luckily we can choose to create intention to unwind ourselves. It just doesn't happen without creating the intention and working towards it, catching ourselves in that moment and choose a different path.