Eph75

Ultimately writing posts like this is too blunt to allow for diggin down into the nuances of all of those statements, as our existing meaning making will make sense of what's there, force it into our existing frame of interpretation. Here, we're looking at reframing the way thoughts occur to us

@fopylo Perhaps you're making it too complicated, and within that too complicated picture that you have painted for yourself you have gotten lost in that picture, not finding the path forward. Consider that the path forward is not at all in that painting, but in that which compels you to paint in a certain way. That very thing that produces the thought that you feel compelled by and that which creates the sense of right and wrong, good and bad that keep you stuck. When you think about how you should get out of "your rut", what you are likely doing is reversing and repainting the same picture over and over again, defining that picture as ultimately true. But what you're doing is really shortcutting yourself right into the Cul de Sac, the dead end, that you've visited and keep revisiting over and over again. It's you maintaining status quo, but you've been there, you've been down that road, you know exactly where it ends... () Then, how do you choose a different road when you don't know how, and the only road that shows up before you it that one, your, road? Observation. Consider that you don't need to do anything else than observe the going-ons within you. Then asking yourself questions about what makes you think the way you do, where your answers seem preconceived and what's true and needed is unquestionable so. What was it that made you you? What defining moments were there in your earlier life that cause you to become who you are, that has the thoughts that occur to you occur. There is greater understanding to be found here, there are those defining moments in our lives when we decided "I don't want to be that" or "I need to do this to" in order to be, as we make up, successful in life. It's the writing of the script of who we are, that we hold unquestionably true. And it's not unquestionably true at all, in fact, it's all made up and there are specific reasons we subconsciously made it up and "wrote" that script in the shape we did. The only issue is that the script will prove itself not working, it's just a matter of time and to what degree it's creating a discrepancy in our minds. And yet we will keep adding more and more into the script, building an increasingly more complex one. That is, until a point that the script is proven to ourselves not working anymore and we either get stuck, or we reject parts of the script replacing it with something that works better, so that we can be more successful, in increasingly holistic ways. That script you don't choose to change. It changes by mere observation, making connections between our current manifestation and what events made us choose certain ways of being, generating insights into ourselves which in turn may create shifts that allows us to see what parts of the script that we need to let go of, being replaces by something new. This works in unpredictable ways, and logics do not apply as your logics is generated by your current script. For example, and this is just a provocative example, you may think that you want to stay ajour with the anime scene, buy that may be a compulsory thought generated by something in your internal script, making that unquestionably true and a result is that there is something else wrong inside the picture that you have painted, but it not being related to anime. It then makes you focus more on the rest, while continuing wanting for anime. What if the one thing that makes it compulsory is the thing that needs introspection into? What if that compulsory scrioting makes anime a conceptual must? Equally, you can say that you have scripting that create action towards the things that you compulsory do pursue. Driven by a specific behavior, judgment or lens, that you chose for some specific reason, albeit subconsciously so, in order to be able to be successful as you made up successful to be. Looking into this composition of who we are and gaining more understanding of what makes us have thoughts occur to us in a certain way "making you seem you" allows for creating some wiggleroom and freedom to have new thoughts occur, or old thoughts occur in slightly new ways, leading to the picture being drawn be somewhat different, where the predetermined Cul de Sac does not occur in the first place. There's no absolut true or right way of doing it. It's all about the process itself. What events might there have been in your earlier years where you made such choices about who you are, want to be, or don't want to be, that created the set of tools that are paining your current painting? Sit with this question. For hours, and scribble down what you come up with, and consider sharing, explaining and opening up for someone else to ask into what you make up being true. Suspend your judgment of whatever shows up. Query further into it. And while doing this, hold whatever comes up for you lightly (!) ... after all you are just making it up and it is likely to be proven untrue and needing to be replaced further down the path, so try not being too attached to the new truth emerging. Good luck my friend

❤️

Agreed. SD, t's a model, and a tool that emerged from certain circumstances, and all models needs to be discarded at some point when it's meaningfulness and usefulness has been transcended.

Well, while leaving it open to create shadows anywhere on the spiral, I was referring to the shadows created by rejecting some aspects while moving up the spiral, that needs to be addressed, to a certain degree, and reintegrated, in order to transcend the first tier, into Yellow. Even at Yellow, there going to be shadows from prior stages to be reintegrated. Even at Yellow, I would suppose there is the possibility to create Yellow shadows that needs to be cleaned at some later point to aloow further development.

This is not it. You are not born into Yellow, you progress more effectively though the stages as part of early development, being pulled into the center of gravity for where the society and local influence is, by being subjected to more efficient means of development. And, you will get shadows that need dealing with, inevitably so, if you are to mature to the point that you start, your transition into Yellow.

LOA is at play at a much more fundamental level than desire. For example, if you are positive and creative, you attract more positive and creative people, accelerating one's own manifestation. It doesn't have to be fueled by desire, neither deficieny needs nor becoming needs. A interesting factor is that when wanting something too much, the neediness generated is emitting a negative vibration, repelling positive vibration, creating the opposite effect of what one wants. Equally, operating from a place of freedom without attachment to particular outcomes, emits positive energies which attracts and makes it easier to get alignment with others that amplifies the opportunities and possibilities to manifest effects that align with ones values. These are very real effects. The asking for something concrete desire, the actual effect is in the subtle and intangible being that is happening under the apparent surface, and has less to do with an actual thing desired.

@bebotalk I'd love to hear your breakdown of LOA. To me it's very simple. It's the "game" of energies, and the attraction or amplification of that which we ourself invest into that "game". It's nothing magical, it's not concrete per se, yet it manifests that which is concrete from a subjective pov. It's subjectively observable, it's possible to experiment with. It's always at play, knowingly or unknowingly. The "universe" (no point in reading into what the universe might be interpreted as being) provides an attraction of equivalent energies (no point in going into what those might be, or the "charge" they carry, in those terms the "universe" does not value either or).

And yet, universe does provide.

The universe don't give a shit. This is attraction, it doesn't say what that attraction is or how someone subjectively would place judgements or categorize that flavor of attraction as "good", "bad", "positive", "negative" or something completely different. That judgment is an outer layer of experience being placed on top of being. And, nowhere does this negate hard work, if that's what is occurring.

It's about energies emitted and attraction generated. It's not about specifics, if you want to grow two new arms, thinking it'd be better with four, well, good luck. You could shift that into a conversation about what is real and reality by dream is just a different consciousness state that is as real as this other dream we have that we call reality. Both being illusions generated by mind and the subjective experience in either is as real s anything. But, this is not about that. For simplicity, boil this down to the two polarities of negative and positive. Being stuck in the negative, emits negative energy and negative side-effects are generated in unpredictable ways, and negative others are attracted to you just like you are attracted to them and other negative energies. Shift towards a problem, and a problem remains. Shift towards positive energies and you will manifest and attract positives, sometimes in very concrete and direct ways, sometimes in highly unpredictable ways that you might label as luck. The law of attraction amplifies, manifests and attracts energies of the kind that we emit. Ultimately it's about the shifts in your own manifestation and in the reality you experience that generates that which you are attracted to. This is not about dictating conditions. That would be the emission of negative energies based on some deficiency need or idea that in itself likely is fueled by negative energies.

@Psychonaut You don't skip stages, you are more likely to have more emphasis on the "I" or the "We" side of the spiral. It's said that we "hopscotch" the stages, some we have two feet in, some we only stand one foot in before moving on. Either way leaves shadows that must be addressed to release yourself to further development. You have to integrate each stage to holistically develop. If not, the manifestation of the higher emergant state will be skewed by the overhanging shadow. This is not an "if" - it "is". We all have to address shadow work. Substances: It's already been mentioned to separate peak experiences/states and stages. That doesn't mean that temporary peak experiences don't catalyze permanent shifts that contribute to stage advancement. Challenging - peak - experiences reframe us in some way, more of less. But there are no guarantees.

Your level does not matter. Use the spiral stages and theory as fuel to self-inquiry and experimentation based on hypothesis you make up from what you think you know. There's no particular status in being this or that, the only thing that matters is how you show up to the world, and how you can self-influence yourself towards showing up in new ways. Interestingly, at some point also that drive dissolves.

@k-ahmadzadeh The problem becomes that non-attachment isn't a concept or theory that you practice. Until you experience the shift that is the shift from attachment with the striving to let go, into the being of non-attachment, you will suffer and "joy" as you say won't be there, or it will be tainted, and it's more about getting through. When conceptual understanding and practicing has tranformed into who you are, there is no monk life spending of life, these is only non-attachment with the absolute freedom to engage, or, as in cases where you today wish you could disengage, you were never engaged to being with. Getting there is a journey. How to get there is the obstacle. Paradoxically, the shift is about letting something in your deep programming go. That letting go, if it is to be permanent, requires inquiry, insight and understanding, to such a point that the most deeply rooted and foundation understanding of what is, and who you are, experiences a shift. Albeit, this may sound like spiritual mumbo jumbo, it's is a very practical reality of our being. It is not about learning something, it's about deconstruction of who we think we are, unlearning, and recomposition into something more loosely coupled. Life is the journey, and a practice. The only obstacle is the lack of awareness that unfolds the stepping stones. And, that is what makes walking this path difficult, because as much as we are similar and experience similar challenges in life, the composition is unique and needs unique insights into what made the early you (loosely coupled) become the current you (attached/firmly coupled) - and how to reverse engineer who you are. If you will, it's the learning of what your own blueprint is. The greatest challenge is to shift away from external distractions and look inwardly. Consistently, always. These is nothing out there, there is only "you". So search inwardly until you show up differently in to the world. Then you can "be in the world, rather than be of it" - i.e. non-attached or rather less attached. Observation is key here.

@k-ahmadzadeh There are several thing showing up to me in the words you write. You make up that you have to be optimistic, creating a discrepancy between the current state and the state that you make up that you should be at. What if it's the expectation that things should be a certain way that in the first place creates the feeling that there is something someghing wrong to being with? I ask that as a question, but really, it's not. The very expectation kills the vibration of the moment. If there was nothing but this, the moment, the optimism you feel is absolute. The living in the past or the future is the only thing that can kill the vibe you experience. Suffering is the fuel to change. Change is the path towards emotion non-atrachment that eventually alleviates suffering. Non-attachment is the stance that allows absolute freedom to action. This is not a cliché. That is, this is a cliché until you experience the shift that makes it real. Focus on what could create the shift, don't focus on what's there, the content on what is going on. It's a distraction. It won't get you anywhere. It's the content you can be non-attached not. Don't dismiss this thought, that's the default. Stay with it, inquire into it and yourself, allow the thought to shift your perspective of what is, and what is will change meaning.

On a similar note.

@StarStruck What are you seeking to find... Someone that can teach you conceptual things that can connect to "spiral", in order to short-cut yourself to "success", which is something a mentor can help with. Or, is it a conversational partner that hold the ability to disrupt your existing sense-making, which in turn generates a container in which the possibility of manifesting shifts in your current and self-limiting perspectives, towards "up the spiral" to occurring? That someone may have nothing to teach, nothing to mentor. Or, is it something completely different? Regardless, I offer no answer.

I make up that I'm seeing the US slipping straight into the same trap, while keeping repeating the same ignorant things as we had in Sweden when the migration exploded. E.g. the bussing of immigrants to places like New York and more or less ignoring the negative effects meanwhile the phenomena grows towards unmanageable proportions. Only when it's grown unmanegable it will be recognized, and at that point it is not reversable, having set an ever lasting imprint of society and shifted the future projection in a vastly different direction than it would have been otherwise. Immigration and also homelessnes. Not sure if that's a misperception based on an external view but I do see similarites with Sweden, all the while Democrats keep talking about the ones highlighting the issues and the problem as being "a threat to democracy" and the emerging state generates new support to the Democratic party.

@Elton Do you want to lead forcefully, or do you want to occur powerful? Do you want to lead for the sake of leading, as a career path, as status, as a monetary influence on your own life, or do you want to be a leader? You can be a leader without a leadership position, and you can be in a leadership position without being a leader in who you are as a person. Who do you want to lead? How do you want to lead? Do you want to lead a flock of sheep who you tell what to do? Do you want to lead by creating compelling vision and experienced connectedness to what manifests within that direction? Do you want to instill firmness where people know that they have to align with what you say in order to escape discomfort? Or do you want to influence what is so that people occur as leaders themselves? Do you want to push, or do you want to coach towards lighting a spark inside each and everyone so that they occur pulled towards something that is compelling to them, that enriches their experience of work and working with you? Do you want to produce output or do you want to generate positive outcomes that somehow align with whatever business value you are there to bring value to? Do you want to focus on the external outcomes or manifest a balance between internal outcomes and external outcomes that aspires to manifest a more holistically healthy balance in the container in witch people and your "reports" themselves occur and manifest within. What are the behavior shifts needed? Recognize that many if not all of these options points towards a path that leads back to you yourself and the way you occur within what already is, and what you yourself manifest within that clearing. Do you want to want reports that report, or individuals and occur as empowered, engaged, motivated creative sources who co-create and benefit from each other rather than compete to win. What you choose to manifest as a leader will influence how others manifest. In a sense, the boring old quote "lead by example" but it's so much more than that, it's about designing the container itself so that positive experience can be actualized within it. It's about being deliberate about making it happen, being deliberate about yourself and making it visible for others to see and reflect over, generating shifts within others to help then experience the power of having shifts in themselves and their perspectives. It's about being deliberate about the relationships within that container, between people and between people and you. If you are a "natural" leader, you already know about this and you do these kind of things already. If you already do this, shifting into leadership position is easier, but only is business allows it to coexist with productivity. One challenge can be to g generate shifts within business to aloow the evolution and unfolding of the human experience within the business ecosystem, which might have repressed the human factor that inevitably resides within that system. Another challenge might be to shift into being a source of creation in with co-creation of the human factor can emerge yourself and others. Likely both challenges are on the table as conscious organizations are as rare as the unicorn. Albeit, behind the facade of the work persona's you have in your team, there is, likely to be pockets of conscious being and wanting to co-create. Whatever happens, you cannot engage with the triggers you yourself experience, it creates a push and pull environment that is per design going to not only maintain but strengthen the status quo, like flexing a muscle that only grows stronger towards the very resistence or force it gets subjected to. Work on yourself, be aware and explore those triggers, your values and commitments. Shifting what is starts with shifting yourself, and the manifestation of you. Being a great leader recognizes that you cannot be the one that knows more than the groups. You would be the bottleneck and there would be unhealthy dynamics in the group. You want to lead to help experts emerge who know much more than you, where you can occur as the equivalence of a "musical director", actualizing each and everyone into the "symphony". Ultimately it's about the experience people are finding themselves in while being in your team. This gets us back to the questions. What kind of leader do you want to be? Why do you want to be a leader in the first place? And whatever you want to manifest, does that fit into the organization? Would you be willing to make it an indefinite commitment to generate shifts without suffering the negative effects put on your person, generated by the inherent resistence you *will* meet on that path? This is a perfect example where the spiritual meets the real world and generating shifts in perceived reality. Practical spirituality.

@Tyler Robinson I do get that. I've been in a similar place that I make up you are at. Similar, not same. I do get triggered, it's human nature. And yes, I do something differently today when I do get triggered, that I wasn't able to do say 6 years ago. I get triggered less and less often as a result. Different environments, people, situations play in. I also do see how you make a Nahm connection, and how me assuring you this has nothing to do with bypassimg and instead getting straight into and with the pain rather than building structures that removes the need to deal with what shows up. I too feel that disconnect and I acknowledge my lack of ability to offer what you need. In that sense, I'm only offering a perspective, do what you will with that. ❤️ And I do wish you the best.

@Tyler Robinson There's always more to things than we make up there is. @Gesundheit2 has a point, as do you. @Gesundheit2 has things to work on about how he is being/shows up to the world, as do you, as do I. So that we can grow increasingly and healthily impactful in that world. There's something here that isn't seen, by you (same goes for everyone) and seeing that which we can't see now, is one of the keys that can lead to shifting your mind - ultimately redefining YOUR world in which we exist. You may very well be right in what you write, but if that's a distraction away from the very thing that needs to shift within you, and it's only that, a distraction, and even if this one thing would change, the way your mind produces thoughts remains the same, and problems with the world is seen the same way, only elsewhere. This is always an amalgamation of your showing up in to, and your interpretation of the world - and how that clashes with the showing up of others. That is, no one is at absolute right at all times, there are perspectives, and all perspectives are flawed in some way. Unreasonable could be that this is something that you can sort out within yourself, and what is actually unfolding now cements they way you are in you inner world. "Bad things out there" can't be fixed, and if one adjusts itself, there is an infinite new "bad things" that will case upsets. It's those very shifts in our mind happen, they alleviated the mental pain and suffering that is interpreted into the reality that we make up for ourselves. Consider that reality might not be as real as you think, feel and know it is. That it's being made up within your mind, as we speak. And consider how truly "letting go of" something can change how that world appears to you. From being against you, to, simply being there and not necessarily warranting an interpretation at all. Perceived assholes simply become people expressing the thoughts that show up to then as best they can, based on their own interpretation of the world. Consider that their showing up and actions have NOTHING to do with you. Nothing... The only thing you have is your interpretation - and it is flawed, incorrect and down-right wrong - just as everyone else's is. Consider journaling about that - the meta of what is happening, detached from the content of the story taking place, which in this case is limited to a forum, a lack of features, and a desire to restrict of change some people from being able to do wrong. Beyond that story lies possibilities.

@Tyler Robinson Just read your two reply before mine and after, we're a bit out of posting sync There's something very comforting in what you write. The problem with controlling what is causing the "upset" still remains.

@Tyler Robinson I fully see what you want, desire and need. And forgive me for changing the direction back to control. These are things you cannot control. Of course you have a slim chance on influencing by sharing feedback about such functionality, but you cannot control it. I'm sorry for the pain you experience. These thoughts are patterned "Tyler Robinson" thoughts, they are not per se your thoughts, they are thought that show up to you. When an upset happens around something we automatically go to where our patterned thought take us. This is typically to fix something "out there". This showing up as something you need, and it being in the realm where you can only influence at best - but likely not even influence is possible as it would likely require rewriting the forum software that is not even in the control of admin/mods. Sharing thoughts and ideas is of course great, ad it might influence at some level. But if there's an attachment to the desired outcomes, we generate a new, different kind of upset in that very process. What you can control is where and how you journal, and how you expose that journaling so that it becomes impactful to you. Paradoxically, the best journaling is that which others can interact with and where we feel safe to accept constructive feedback offered. And paradoxically, this place should be about creating an environment that supports people in their development - but reality is that it is not deliberately constructed for that purpose. Unfortunately this environment is not capable of being that kind of support system. Also, this typical "fixing" reaction that we have as human beings, is very much externally focused, looking for external world to adapt to our internal world or in that way, our capacity to interpret and create what we see the external world as. Unreasonable is happening in the internal world, where perspectives, beliefs, and attitudes actually can change, those we in that sense do control, with the result that the external world shows up differently to us, to the degree that we and it become something new that didn't exist prior to such a shift of our internal world. Unreasonable is in the internal world. *This* is just a distraction that doesn't get to what really matters deeply.

@Tyler Robinson I'm thinking human curiosity means people would click such a link and it maybe making a subtle difference making that blogging more meaningful. That is, were it to be discoverable, i.e. In your signature. Stay with the thought of being unreasonable, that's where shifts in our thinking resides. The first unreasonable action is to not dismiss the the idea of being unreasonable. The second is accepting simply that being unreasonable can be to disengage with the desire to take action, which is the desire to fix something, and just staying with the upset, feeling into it in a way that is unreasonable to whta you would normally do.

@Tyler Robinson What I make up is that there is a desire to control what cannot be controlled; journaling here and not wanting anyone to comment. If that is an upset, you can declare a breakdown for yourself, meaning that you stop and look at how you would typically respond and consider what being unreasonable with the autonomous thoughts showing up would look like, and what an unreasonable action would be. Requiring the forum or forum members to change is what's reasonable to you - you need to be unreasonable with yourself to come up with something that will help you on a deeper level. I understand your desire to make journaling public and thus more impactful and less into a void. Would starting a blog and journaling there, where you can control/not allow commenting, and linking it from you signature help you with this? Or do you feel that the public connection is still too abstract?