Ulax

@no_name I do feel guilt and shame at times. I also feel apathy towards it. As well as an understanding and anger.

@meta_male You're welcome bro. Ye man was confusing af and still is. Congrats on breaking away dude. Ye I agree with your idea around unravelling too. I'm not at the point of emotional forgiveness as of yet, no. I can intellectually understand that they behaved the way they did because of their own traumas but i would say i tend to feel numb, or ashamed about it or feel contempt towards them. I could watch my mother suffer with glee tbh. I'm quite into David Hawkin's work re levels of consciousness and letting go atm. I think i need to work through letting go of quite a few latent lower consciousness emotions in me before real emotional forgiveness occurs, particularly shame. I resonate a lot on the level of shame i think.

@no_name Almost. I'm no contact aside from they give me financial support.

@meta_male Ye dude I had narc parents, and then got preyed upon by a load of narcs throughout primary, secondary school and college. Shit almost killed me, and I would say dealing with narcissistic folks has been the key theme of my life so far. Coming across the reseach on narcissism and recovering from my traumas has been alike uncovering a vast conspiracy theory for me. I think I oscillates between the scapegoat-Lost Child and golden child role. Here are some speakers I like on the subject: Dr Ramani, Frank Yeoman, Pete Walker, and Sam Vaknin. Speaking plainly, true narcissists (NPD) are, to my mind, much more akin to animals than most humans. They are constantly consumed by an unconscious survival strategy of maintaining a narrative of specialness in their mind so as to avoid the abundance of shame they would feel without this narrative's maintenance. They will oscillate between vulnerable (victim) and grandiose states depending on how much 'supply' (validation of specialness) they get from the world. I believe also the NPD mind has issues with object relations, and is very developmentally arrested in this regard. Such a mind lacks object constancy, such that it doesn't fathom that once something is out of sight it still exists. Further, the NPD mind does not understand that other people are subjects (I.e. people with their own conscious experiences), and instead sees them as objects. The issue is reality is constantly denying this specialness, i.e. having to queue, so the narcissist is almost constantly having to manage this narrative. They will constantly project their shame onto others as well. Hence, a narc could look at an injured child on the floor and feel contempt for them. I take the view that narcissism is a form of post traumatic stress disorder. To my understanding they will have suffered serious abuse as a child themselves - The NPD psychic structure being a survival strategy to deal with such abuse. Imo, if you want to avoid getting into another relationship with a narc you gotta work on your attachment style, trauma, and get psychoeducated on narc red flags. ----------------------- Also, I'd recommend setting reasonable expectations regarding how narc people will act. I'm of the no contact where at all possible and reasonable mentality.

I think you make some useful and valid points. Thanks for the feedback.

it aids their survival strategy

I could see it happening

I think its a useful concept to promote as the effects of the repeated behaviour gaslighting describes can be soul crippling. Also, in a truer sense, I don't agree that its us who gaslights us. Or even the other person. Its that when someone gaslights another, the other person will often, as a survival mechanism, adapt their mind into a more traumatised state as a consequence. Gaslight someone enough and they'll out their survival doubt whether they even have hands and legs.

@Tristan12 Thanks dude

Ah fuck. Time to cut my thumbs off. Sincerely tho, it doesn't seem a likely deliberate thing. But even accidents like this can escalate dangerously, imo.

@Julian gabriel I would say I have a similar desire quite frequently. I see it as a need to be seen. I think its because some kids some learn that their need to be seen will get met by just existing, and other learn they have to do or achieve something to be worthy of being seen/ noticed. I'd say we're likely both in the latter boat. So, eventually I think the answer is to do sufficient inner work so as to unconsciously learn that we are worthy of being seen by just existing. -------------- I remember a passage in a book called,, 'the courage to be disliked'. To my memory, it went somewhere similar to this. A great emperor one day took his horse out for a ride. He came across a bridge where he came across another man. It turned out this other man was a philosopher. Prideful after a recent conquest, the emperor bragged about his recent victories, saying 'I have conquered the most countries of any king'. The philosopher smiled and replied, 'That is commendable but I have conquered my need to conquer any country'.

@Gabith I really liked the crucifixion scene. 'Father forgive them for they know not what they do'. How about you mate?

@Danioover9000 Ye i pretty much think the same as what you elaborated. I've watched quite a lot of Hasanabi, who I think has a similar vibe to destiny, and when I watch him I find myself struggling to not change my opinions to his. I'm of the opinion its to dude with my attachment style, and a tendency for me to fawn towards narcissistic seeming physically powerful men. I find it kind of disturbing to sort of watch that dynamic play out in my mind. I pretty much seem to understand why my beliefs are changing but as long as i keep watching the same fawn dynamic seemingly just plays out again and again. I imagine something similar could be happening for a significant chunk of viewers of people like Destiny, Hasanabi, and MrGirl.

I don't really believe I take these youtube streamer debates too seriously, especially these days. Since I learnt about frame control in pick up I tend to just see these types of debates as just battle of frames.

Hey dude, I'd recommend considering seeing using prescription meds to deal with mental health issues as just one perspective. So, I'd say do some research on your symptoms and the effects of the meds you are thinking of taking. I'd recommend trying to get perspectives from both doctors, and also people who have taken them, i.e. from youtube videos. Then, if you decide to take them, I'd see it as an experiment, and find a way of tracking how you perceive the meds affect you. Therefore, if you take the meds and you get results you want, then great! You have a new tool to consider continuing to use in, what i see to be, your mental health journey. And if you don't get the results you want, then, to my mind, you've now discovered that this tool (this certain prescription drug taken in your current circumstance) isn't what you need right now in your journey. You can then move onto experimenting with another tool, i.e. a certain type talk therapy for example, if you so wish.

@FlyingLotus @Danioover9000 Heya guys. Was wondering if you could help me with the spoiler function, please. If you're willing, I'm confused where to place the bracketed tags in relation to the text I want to hide. For example, if I wanted to hide 'I am a pineapple', where would I place the bracketed tags in relation to this text.

Because, imo, karma is not about whether people get punished for their actions, instead they get punished by their actions. You do not get punished by your anger, you get punished for your anger.

I think a key thing that causes confusion is that I understand spiral dynamics to be a tracker of cognitive development. I think someone can have a high level of cognitive development but have low emotional development. I think I remember Leo saying the same in one of his videos too.

Gween

I think its often to do with a feeling of disgust towards intimacy in men.

Ye man that's real. I think of it sometimes being like a future generation condemning previous generations as completely sick and twisted for eating any meat at all. For us it might be something we understand as worthy of debate but would seem generally pretty rare for someone to think a meat eater was absolutely sick and twisted for doing it. Dealing with aging is one of the key motivators i have for pursuing consciousness work. I imagine aging is pretty tough for the average person.

@Leo Gura Wishing you well dude

I think yellow folk who have unintegrated green and haven't got to turquoise will often suffer a lot. You understand things happen systemically, and every time you come across some heinous shit in the world you realise it couldn't have been any other way. Yet at the same time you don't have an effective way of processing your emotions, and you don't have the mechanisms of denial that tier 1 stages have at their automatic disposal.

Get a mentor

That sounds more tier 1 to me. I would think tier 2 would understand the hell out of the mob and see that everyone was acting out of some understandable cause, and that it couldn't be any other way.