Roy

A huge amount of relationships I see (living in rural Canada) are between solid Blue men and Green women. The man will act as the "noble pillar" simply working hard all the time and being that rock, while the women will be more community/relationship based (generally speaking). Of course the women will try to challenge and push the man emotionally and value wise but he'll usually stick his ground in a fair manner, and the women will understand that foundational aspects he offers is what she needs, so she accepts him and doesn't try to change him too much. Remember people go their whole lives stuck on one stage and that's OK! It can still be a great life. Love is about accepting your S/O as they are, and not expecting them to change all the time. Otherwise it's not unconditional and it's not true love, it's selfishness. Also I think people who learn about Spiral Dynamics start to subconsciously (and consciously) demonize those on the lower stages and paint bad pictures of them in their mind, because it's tied with personal development at that one is "better" than another. They are imagining that a "Woke Green or Yellow" couldn't and (shouldn't) love a Blue person because they are too conservative and backwards. As if love cares................. love is just love. Stop trying to think about it and quantify it, as @Onemanwolfpac said love isn't rational. Just be love.

@aklacor727 None. If you love each other, have great communication, and a strong foundation of trust and honesty..........Spiral Dynamics values don't really matter. Of course people who are closer together on the Spiral are more likely to resonate with each other, but that doesn't mean a relationship can't work out between people at different levels. Happens all the time. SD is more for understanding groups anyways, not individuals.

This is all true scientifically but people who use and focus on these natural facts and understandings largely just use it to justify their own selfishness, as the ego does. It's deliberately ignorant of the larger holistic picture. Human beings are animals yes, but we are also simotaneously transcendent of our animal programming. We can behave in ways that are counterproductive to our "survival" and "thriving", because we are looking for other things we deem more valuable. Of course our biology will still be humming along our whole lives to various degrees in different people, but that doesn't mean you have to be a slave to it, you have a choice. Monogamy isn't a "lie" (whatever that means). It's an option. This really all comes down to selfishness vs selflessness. Stray too far in either direction and you're going to feel states of hollow dissatisfaction or new states of happiness. Do you want to be a Devil or do you want to be God?

I know it's not completely happening in this thread but I see a lot of it on this forum. Why so much Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson hate? They help millions people through their discussions and knock so much sense into the endless stupidity in our society. So what if they're rationalists or too happy to talk about science? That's just what they know, and that's what most people need these days, which is precisely why it's resonating so much. You help people where they are at. Proselytizing about Stage Yellow systems thinking or preaching State Turquoise spirituality just flies over the head of Blue and Orange masses. If you aren't being mindful of who you're trying to help it's just ego masturbation about how woke and smart you are and it's no wonder communities like this get laughed at so much for being "crazy". If you think people like Sam and Jordan aren't doing good things and should be ignored you need to go back to the drawing board of your world view, because you've lost the plot.

These are just temporary "states" that have no real grounding @The_Searcher. Of course people have different personalities deep down, but the things that give you an identity are just an illusion. You may have had experiences or emotions that made you feel "shy", but they have passed and gone. The only thing keeping it alive right now are your attachments to the idea of you "being" that way. The thing is you aren't that way, you are (loosely) whatever way you choose to act in the present moment or future. Really consider this possibility. It may feel like just a mental exercise but so much of our life comes from there so don't underestimate it's power.

That's the right track! It can be hard given cultural circumstances, or certain family situations. Just keep learning to accept events and most importantly yourself

Sounds like you have some underlying hang ups on your relationship to your own pleasure @Rolo. You mentioned "compulsory masturbation". Is there some shame and disgust associated with the habit? There is nothing wrong with some self-love but it should be a sort of sporadic thing of enjoyment rather than a planned event or indulgence of sudden bodily feelings. Wisdom is balance. You are probably out of rhythm and your mind knows it. If so maybe consider taking some time off or sparsely having any orgasms for a while and letting your brain reset.

@Ross Humiliation sucks, I am familiar with it as well. Consider to stop taking yourself too seriously and please stop giving so much authority to others! As if what some high-schoolers thought of you in the past matters matters now. Do you think so? Have those incidents been brought up verbally running into people from high school? Probably not. Try something for me, take a moment to go back to those events and pretend you aren't yourself for the time being. Imagine it from someone else's perspective, is there any humor to be found? I mean really be honest about it, then ask yourself if you were that person looking at someone else in that situation would you laugh? Don't dwell on the details too much, this is just an exercise to get you to detach emotionally and to stop caring so much as to what happened. You'll find that it's merely your perspective that needs to be changed, because the past can't be. Ultimately you need to learn to truly accept the past for exactly what it is and that things happened. They don't define anything about your current identity, unless you let them, and keep propagating it every time the memory comes to your mind. Events come and go and are largely out of our control, that's ok! Remember your self-esteem is exactly that, how you regard yourself. Regardless of what shitty situation is thrown at you or the things that are said to you, you can use the power of your mind to cut through all that and accept yourself exactly as you are. Time should heal this wound, but you need to let it.

I used to be able to smoke weed frequently when I was a teenager. Was fun and did it at least once a week from ages 15-18. Only done it three or four times since then, it's no longer enjoyable or useful to me. So I don't do it, just like alcohol. It makes me feel anxious, sometimes physically ill, and just not pleasant. You don't any have obligations to use it, regardless of whether your friends are using it, and there isn't anything wrong with you @Dylan Page. Just don't do it! There is a lot of bullshit and delusional attitudes around weed, as some kind of "spiritual" enhancer and all that. Yea, it may be awesome for some, but not for others like you or me. Your life will continue on and be fine without it. Marijuana isn't necessary for anything, and your lungs and overall health will be better off not doing it.

The overwhelming majority of girls you're going to find on matchmaking services are going to be Orange (with a handful of Green), due to the focus on surface appearance, making impressions through false marketing, and the focus on materialism. You're not likely to find a balance matchmaking platform. People tend to flock to what's the most popular because they don't want to put in the work to search and utilize every niche app out there. That's just the nature of social media technology. The best quality program doesn't always get the attention it deserves. It's a combination of luck, marketing, and timing. If you want to find people generally on a certain part of the Spiral you have to study what kind of people they are and where you'd likely find them, in real life. That's the truth.

I think you need to accept and appreciate where you're at in your journey @Joshaps. This is your life after-all, and with enough luck it should be a long one. It sounds like you're seeking the spiritual path out of some kind of social pressure or neurotic obligation you've created in your mind. You have many years left. Please take the time to deal with the important stuff right in front of you, there is nothing to be ashamed of having to go backwards a bit and rebuild your foundation. Becoming enlightened and going deep into spirituality is a luxury of many other things, not the priority. People get confused because they see others and get envious of their level of awakening or peace, then neglect and drop so much of their life to pursue it blindly. Accept and love yourself exactly as you are right now, and go from there. Hope this helps, cheers - Roy

How sheltered were you growing up, if at all? It sounds like you had a lot of opportunities to really come out of your shell but you weren't careful and totally true to who you really are, so your ego backlashed and created the panic attacks as a way for you to retreat to "safety". Am I right about this @The_Searcher?

Interesting, my type changed from exactly a year ago when I did the myers briggs test. I was INFJ, now I'm INFP. Then again I have hit personal development pretty hard core and done a lot of deep introspection. My partner is like the complete opposite though but we're similar in so many ways too. Opposites attract I guess! Getting her to take the test again now wonder if she's changed too. Edit: Her result last year was ENFP. Now she's a INFP like me haha. I'm rubbing off on her!

Leo doesn't like tool, clearly not woke.

Not targeting you specifically Preety but rather this statement. This kind of resistance is specifically why this necessary progress is so hard to get in motion. Of course the details would have to be worked out and we'd have to be careful, but it takes courage to leap over your current intuitions and strongly held personal opinions and feelings.

@Girzo When I hitting dating hard I exclusively set up 2 part nights. The first part being food related, having a nice meal or ice cream, something where you can sit down and get to know each other for an hour or two. Then into something fun and deliberately physical like bowling or light hiking, where you have frequent opportunities to break the touch barrier (showing her how to do stuff, guiding her arms and body etc.). The first part of the date gives her some time to get comfortable with your presence, it should be easy to tell the vibes in the second part of the date if you can touch her or not. Just go with the flow and don't force anything, but as @universe said you should be leading. If you act more confident than her (even if you don't feel confident) she'll likely be more at ease and allow that physical contact. They want you to make the move. It can be frustrating that it's always men that have to initiate everything but that's just the nature of the game, embrace it and master it.

@Girzo When you're pursuing pick-up, a relationship, or dating in general you need to be very intentional about it, don't half-ass this or you get half-ass results. Clearly define what you're standards are and stick to them, here are a few of mine for reference; I will NOT date a smoker. I will NOT further a relationship with someone who is unemployed, with no prospects. I will NOT have sex with someone who is below a 7 for me. These kind of questions and a lot more are what you need to set in place, so you know what to look for and where to look for it. Building a good relationship with someone else begins with having a good relationship with yourself, and respecting who you are. Of course nobody you meet will be perfect, but don't compromise so heavily with your standards! You won't have to ditch anyone if you don't waste time with people you know you don't want to be with. The problem with all of this is ego and selfishness, it's so tricky and pervasive. People always want their cake and to eat it too. They will always look for someone much better than them (or worse if they're manipulative), then wonder why they are alone and get resentful. Be humble and fair with setting your boundaries, but at least set some. Otherwise you're in for a lot of wasted time and damaged feelings.

I'm not saying it's impossible, or should be demonized. It's just that relationships built on sex don't last. Being too eager or impatient to get in someones pants (from either side) sub-communicates selfishness, and a lack of intent to build a long term relationship. Of course there could just be very strong connection and both parties want to do it. However taking a bit of time and exercising restraint (and talking about that) shows respect and strength. "I'm not just here to bang you because you're hot and I'm a fuck boy." (That's what women will read from you.) This obviously depends all on what you're after. If you just want to have a good time and have sex with a lot of people, by all means go ahead. Just realize that you won't get anything truly valuable from that. Get it out of your system while you're young and make sure to communicate what you're doing to everyone you're with, otherwise you can hurt a lot of emotions.

@Space If everything is going great, why not ask them for a second date? What do you have to lose? How are you going to find out how deep the attraction goes unless you try? Not trying to assume here but is there perhaps a deeper problem of fear with connection and intimacy? Is that why you got your skin in the game so late? Nothing wrong with that, people can be busy of course and not pursue dating til later. The important thing with first dates is to ask questions about them and their past, some stuff about their family, ask tough questions, you want to really gauge if your values match. That's the most important factor for seeing if the relationship is going to go anywhere. Of course initial sexual attraction is important, but you won't find out how compatible in that regard until you have sex. Which probably won't (and shouldn't happen) until 3-5 dates (or 1-2 months) in.

Never, or not for a very very, very long time. Most people are actually incapable of looking inwards. Hence why human history has played out the way it has, all the way up to our current situation. The sea of the masses need to follow their own mechanisms for change and improvement, otherwise they wouldn't be the "masses".

@Keyhole Hah! She's rude? She actually seems very polite and only threw in a little passive aggressiveness in after you wouldn't let up for multiple posts. You're acting like a spoiled little girl who isn't getting what she wants from daddy How about trying to genuinely help her instead of just using her post as a place to grind your axe and preach about men vs women dynamics? Anyways @Laloosh this is indeed something he probably genuinely feels he "missed out on", but it's something he'll have to get over and mature past. That boat sailed for him. The reason it's coming up is because it's a selfish egoic part of himself that used to exist when he was younger, reemerging it's ugly head now that he has the opportunity for sexual promiscuity (based on his looks). You shouldn't indulge him based on some naive idea it's counter-intuitive and that it might be "progressive" and make your love go deeper. It could easily go south and the relationship will drift apart and collapse. You are enough right now and you need to encourage him to truly commit to your love together. Your emotions of jealousy, resentment, and "selfishness" are actually valid emotions. Don't let your own possible self-esteem issues paint them as negative, that's just harsh self-critical analysis that seems to creep itself into the psyche after doing a lot of this work. It's not you that needs to do the work, it's him. Accept where he is at but make it clear you won't be ok with it and make sure he knows you're there to support him and get over this juvenile urge. Good luck - Roy

Fortunately I don't work in a coal mine

I love the point about creatures suffering. It's at the center of almost every problem in the world. We all need to expand our compassion and love as far as we can, not just to ourselves and family and say "k cut it that's it". Like so many people do. Reminds me of argument against progressive climate change policies, "Oh think of all people that will lose their jobs they have children and families. It would be immoral to close the coal mines!" You see that's a perfectly rational POV from the miners perspectives, but that's because they lack greater love. It's selfish and doesn't extend past their family. They haven't been exposed to the potential that they could love the greater world and the environment. Which total suffering could outweigh their own if the problem is left unchecked. Sadly they are too shortsighted to see.....

Alex Grey and Tool are fucking awesome. I do like his artwork and have quiet a bit of it saved in my computer, however my only critique is a lot of it is pretty repetitive. It's his thing though so can't blame him.

@kagaria Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the pain and exhaustion ain't going anywhere! There is no silencing it. There is solace though. By doing it over and over and training, you will reduce the levels of those things. The hardest part is always the beginning, but it's comparatively smooth sailing after you get into it. And with enough time eventually you'll change your relationship and perspective on the negative feelings of exercise. They'll start to become actually somewhat enjoyable for you. Because you'll realize the pain and exhaustion is an indicator that your body is feeling resistance and therefore getting stronger and healthier!