Roy

@Serotoninluv You are correct, but my statement wasn't absolute and all-inclusive. I am very particular about my language! My point is that most people, and even those in developed countries are just not truly conscious of the option they have not to eat meat, or that it's really unnecessary (at the cost of suffering for the animals). No technically speaking they do not need to eat meat to survive, and of course you see that as well because you have a certain level of awareness. Apart of their identity is the idea that they need meat to survive, it doesn't matter to them if it's not compatible with reality. This becomes patently obvious anecdotally if you try and talk to anybody about this and try to "convert" them to some form of vegetarianism or veganism. I've had a co-worker literally admit that yes what goes on in factories is terrible and you don't need it but he still won't give meat up lol. This is deeper than rationality, it's a part of culture and identity. You need to exercise patience and realize that the overwhelming majority of people will need to come to that level of awareness on their own. They need to have that moment that everything "clicks" for them. Shoving slaughterhouse videos and statistics in their face and screaming won't accomplish anything. When you do that you are attacking their literal identity. The results that come from that are painfully predictable. I disagree with you about, I would say most people not a small portion, in developed countries actually DO believe they need to eat animals to survive. Otherwise vegetarians/vegans wouldn't only make up a pathetic 2-5%? of the population. You are totally on the dot about it human-centered bias playing out in all this though. It's just irrational behavior at the bottom of it. The same reason people smoke cigarettes to the grave. It just "feels good", that's all that matters.

So many triggered stage green vegans in here, this thread is a classic and should be posted in the green examples mega-thread. You are creating your own suffering. You need to learn and practice acceptance. Accept the reality that in nature animals consume other animals to survive. Accept that humans are animals and participate in this reality. Accept that humanity is not at the place where they can give up most meat consumption, otherwise they would. You are not raising humanities consciousness by proselytizing and demonizing those who haven't realized their destructive ways and adopted your own. You are making them emotionally reactive (like yourself when you get mad at THEM) and entrenching them deeper into their own ignorance and delay the entire process further. Accept where they are at and meat (heh) them at their level with compassion, understanding, and love.

Native Americans and most indigenous groups would be strong examples of healthy Purple. Red is a bit tougher. The best ones I can think of though, you could use rap artists that are "woke" and more in touch with the healthy sides of their culture than most mainstream hip-hip. Kendrick Lamar J.Cole 2-Pac Lupe Fiasco They obviously have a lot of selfish trash mixed in with their music but they do talk about important things a lot of the time. Red is a pretty ego-centric stage, but these rap artists do make the case for healthy red aspects like standing up for yourself, being proud of your identity individually and collectively, the dangers of the organized oppression Blue is capable of etc.

Being dishonest about your motives and making a calculated and manipulative maneuver for more votes is a form of corruption. Corruption is a scale. The smallest bad thought is still a form of corruption. You can call it "populism". That's just another flavor of the same food. "Attachment leads to jealousy, the shadow of greed, that is." - Yoda

An example of a Stage Green prison in the South American country of Uruguay. Inmates are awarded many freedoms like regular citizens. They are encouraged to take on jobs within the prison, like radio host or barber. Really fascinating video and shows how much progress you can make if you humanize the prisoners so they don't feel reduced.

@Hansu Most people are extremely attached to money. It is literally survival after all. To give it away says a tremendous amount about her and her commitment to higher principles. Only 1 in 10,000 people, probably even LESS, would be willing to depart with that much. She is willing to discard her own potential comfort and survival to serve something greater. That is quite high consciousness, not the opposite. Reflect and consider your reaction might because you maybe don't liking her political leanings, therefore you dismiss it as just a "move" by her to get more votes. Perhaps you resent the fact she is exercising a choice that you yourself couldn't make, given your current attachments to your own selfishness or survival. I don't say this to be inflammatory. Just want to point out stuff you might be missing. Edit: Nvm I won't get through to you I wasted my time. I just saw your giant meme as a response to someone stating very obvious truths about politicians. Which is ironic because not only are you naive but also contradict your own views. Corrupt people don't become politicians, yet they're willing to do manipulate virtue signaling to squeeze extra votes? Ok lol.

Considering Leo has literally spent his entire existence the past 10 years trying to optimize his life in every conceivable way, I'm sure he's tried this lol.

Survival still has to come first for the overwhelming majority of people, including many in this community and Leo himself. Being fully and 100% engaged with "enlightened" principles is extremely difficult and near impossible. Realize the standard you're setting before you get so emotional and critical. You're responsible for creating the suffering and anguish. Before you probably last out at me either, I've been vegetarian for many years. Not that it should be relevant, but you will make it so.

Can you list all the psychedelics you've done by the order of intensity, and list the qualities as well. Feel free to share your experiences as well if you like. I'm diving back into learning all about them to see where I can start. I'm starting to get over my limiting beliefs about doing them and would like to explore these possible development tools.

Consider using that negative motivation (fear) to drive some discipline into you. If that's what you need to get started that ok. A lot of people only start this kind of journey because of some bad event or pain they experienced, and they're looking for something more or something else. Once you're in the journey for a little while that motivation might come more organically to you. You never know if you don't try though so.... Sit your ass down and meditate solider!

If you feel it's going to seriously or inevitably interfere with your responsibilities and survival, search for online help. Otherwise, try to get out of your mind and thoughts trying to rationalize and understand the experience like it's a science. Just observe it with as little judgement or reaction as possible. Feel into it. Permit yourself a few days to pass through it.

North Bay Ontario. Moving to Vancouver Island in the fall!

I used to play really competitively in games as well. I was GrandMaster Terran in Sc2 at one point. A good thing I found to get into flow state was to play like "myself". I imposed my personality on the game and took pride in it. I didn't concern myself with what others thought I should be doing. Of course I knew I had weaknesses I needed to work on to get better but I realized something that made improvement less of a chore and more attainable and natural: I put so much focus into expressing myself in the game and doing what I wanted, that when I reached "flow" state I would overflow with ability. I was simply doing the thing I was already good at, so everything extra could spill over into over in other areas. I'll leave you with a question. Going into the start of a game, which mindset do you think will serve you better? "Ok so I'm playing this guy. I hate the way he play. I NEED to counter this thing he does or I'm gonna lose." vs "Alright. A brand new game. I have a new chance to express what I'm good at."

Yep! Development has it's ups and downs. You're going to recede sometimes into previous patterns and addictions, then break out of them again. It's just apart of the game and you have to learn to accept them and just have a vision for the future. Remember you have a lifetime to develop, it's tempting to skip stuff and stages but you need to take everything as it comes and integrate/master it as you go. Stage Blue healthy qualities I would say are; - Putting your ego and personal wants aside to respect order/laws. - Being responsible and staying true to commitments. - Serving something larger than yourself. The individual will get benefits from serving the group. Example - Military (functions better with teamwork) - Healthy respect for authority. Not being a disturbance or rebel. - Having a solid sense of morality. Those are just some. If you have a couple hours Leo explains it well;

There is awesome utility in using the past in order to understand the present and the future. Having discovered Spiral Dynamics some years ago I thought it would be interesting to make a historical timeline thread with a compilation of examples, using the lens of Spiral Dynamics for analysis. I will be making sweeping generalizations and won't be including every part of the world for now as my knowledge is not infinite. I encourage you to PLEASE point out any flaws or differences of opinion, and suggest useful examples I miss. Just remember this thread is intended to be a macro overview - History has endless content so let's try to keep our focus on events of peak importance and not get lost in minutia. I want the purpose of this thread to be to deepen everyone's understanding of humanities journey. Hopefully with enough participation and improvement this can turn into an official awesome mega-thread! @Nahm @Serotoninluv @Leo Gura is that a possibility to pin this thread if it raises in quality enough? Let's start our timeline then! (%'s are not final. Just a rough estimate to help gauge values of where I think the world is at). Roman Empire: 27 BC to 476 AD - 40% Red/60% Blue. Forged with highly efficient Stage Red power, a transition to embracing the value of greater organization. Strong affinity to pride of civilization. The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. One of the first early successes in integrating proper respect for Order and Law. Extreme military success and excess luxury cause complacency. They being to erode Blue values and respect for Republic and order. 20% Purple/80% Red Germanic, Hun, and other tribes sweep in to eat away at the empire. Due to instability and chaos, Generals, Aristocrats, and Nobility vie for raw control and power. Western Roman Empire collapses and reverts back into Stage Red Kingdoms. Dark Ages: Roughly 500 - 1500 AD - 70% Red/30% Blue. Period of minimal organization. Kingdoms and Monarchies permeate most of the world. Most primitive and mystic Stage Purple cultures and countries are crushed or vassalized under the threat of Stage Red power. Major religions prosper and are used to unify and propel some countries into Blue, but not fully. Period perhaps best represented by the Mongol Horde. 100% Pure red embodiment. Stage Purple paganism are part of identity but no longer deemed important. Strength and ability to exercise violence/power are of highest value. No child can be Khan! Neglecting Stage Red limitations and refusing to see past it's successes, the Mongol Empire dissolves upon Genghis Khans death. Successors are divided by selfishness and are then overpowered by superior technology facilitated by coagulating and emerging Stage Blue nations. (Continent sprawling and unified nations like Tsarist Russia and Ming Dynasty.) Age of Discovery, Colonialism & Absolutism: 1492 -1821(Death of Napoleon Bonaparte) 80% Blue/20% Orange - Kingdoms lose relevance and evolve into world spanning empires. Individual cultures and identities begin to get left behind if they don't appeal and integrate into larger collective egos. Stability and safety under the blanket of civilization encourages exploration and innovation; The birth of the Renaissance. Most advancements in science and society are used to serve state and country, however the discovery of the New World and alien peoples give glimpses into greater ideals of Humanism. Sparking an ember and desire for individualism. The most advanced nations in the world are still embedded into trying to maximize Stage Blue. Nationalism is the status quo. Constant war and competition advances science rapidly as nations try to get an edge on one another. Absolutism & unity to culture and religion are highly valued. Ruthless efficiency is striven for. The Napoleonic Wars devastate most of Europe. The beginning of Blue's limitations are starting to reveal themselves. The masses begin to resent and question the authority of their absolutist leaders. People begin to seek Stage Orange autonomy and react violently. The French Revolution is the first major nexus of these resentments. Great Britain having won the Seven Years War and establishing itself as THE global hegemony, begins to slowly integrate Orange. Other nations follow suit. Entrepreneurship is encouraged as long as it serves Empire. The East India Trading company is born! The industrial revolution provides huge opportunity for common people to explore possibilities for themselves and their own success. Birth of the United States, Abolitionism, & WW1: 1776 -1918 - 50% Blue/40%/10% Green Orange. - Powerful nations rush to capitalize on the the riches of new global interconnected markets. Stage Orange is starting to be explored in an unhealthy haste of selfishness and greed. Africa is carved into pieces. Other lower stage countries across the world are either annexed or pitted against each other as Great Powers posture against one another. Across the Atlantic Ocean one of the first true Stage Orange countries is birthed; The United States of America. It's Constitution representing one of the most advanced documents at the time. Individualism is cherished and most of the ideals of the Old World are discarded. The nation grows across the continent rapidly and violently plows through Stage Purple Native Americans. Britain being the leading power begins to get a small taste of Orange limitations. Stage Green Humanist ideals show themselves for the first time. Parliament votes to abolish slavery. 1/6th of the navy is reassigned to free slaves and hunt down offending ships. More stuff coming later I'm tired lol.

His involvement and use of psychedelics does seem quite full of haste with some desperation for discovery. I get why people can see it that way and I do to a degree as well. However you have to realize that this is just his path, he is making his own choices. You have to stay true to your own path. It's probably a valid criticism of him that he's advocating for them too hard, and that can be really dangerous for a lot of vulnerable people who idolize him and just want to copy him. On the other hand is he really responsible for what anyone does? Should he limit himself and his work because of some irresponsible or deluded people? The answer to that is really no. If people make those mistakes they weren't doing the work properly in the first place of being independent and reflecting honestly. All you have to ask yourself is are you willing to come on the ride or not?

All privilege exists for almost every kind of person. Being good looking will grant you privileges in a society that values appearance. Being an outstanding Muslim will grant you privileges among a group of Imams in an Islamic country. Being white will grant you privileges in a majority white society. Privilege can exist for anyone just by having an identity or certain qualities. People's tribal affinity causes them to act biased outsiders and favorable towards those most like them. People keep trying to politicize this it will only go away when people transcend identity and expand their circle of love.

@Thewritersunion I discovered that Youtube channel a while ago. That guy makes some pretty good satire. Thanks for the link I laughed out loud.

I know you asked for Red (sorry lol) but how do you feel about Native Americans being a good example of healthy Stage Purple? I know they are romanticized a lot in this day and age because of the Stage Green recoil to how they were treated in history (and still to this day really), but I see a lot of cool aspects and things going on with Native Americans; - Extreme respect for environment/land/ecology in general. They have a humble inner acknowledgment about being in balance with the land and not exploiting it. - Strong sense of community. They actively look to heal without reparations and are very welcoming. - They have a competent and interesting understanding and interpretation of the value of psychedelics and other alternative medicine. Those are just the ones I thought of off the top of my head. Of course Purple is still a very low stage. They can be mired down by religious mysticism and tribal feuds. It just appears poignant that Native Americans were and are treated so bad when it seems like they were ahead of their time. Can't many of those aspects be considered Stage Green? It seems like modern Western society could undergo immense lesson learning by tapping into what they've been practicing for thousands of years. @Leo Gura What do you think? I'm also curious how moving up the Spiral to Red from this seems to be productive in any way? Red doesn't seem to have any redeeming qualities except it has a more successful orientation towards power structures and being able to dominate others, but that is a step backwards is it not? I'm glad you posted this thread I need to look into the lower stages some more.

Well I've only done it once so I only have a limited comment to make. It seems extremely safe if you have a sitter to make sure you don't fall or walk anywhere dangerous, because if you take a good hit you will lose complete sense of having a body or physical/motor function. Your visual field gets utterly replaced until you come down. You'll only be high for 5-10 minutes then you're completely sober again which is nice, no hangover (maybe a little dizzy/disoriented). My trip went pretty good but keep in mind this was back when I was 18 and had extremely limited spiritual intent. It was just a fun thing to do on a Sunday afternoon with my best friend. So I took a solid hit through a bong. Within 10 seconds my vision started vibrating very hard and then it was gone. Shortly after I became the objects in the room. Like literally! My regular sense of having a human body, the feelings of blood pumping, the feeling of each limb, of breathing. Everything evaporated and was replaced by whatever was in the room (and what I must have been looking at or touching). I literally experienced what it was like to be a couch. The rectangle like shape, the fuzzy fabric texture, the feeling of people sitting on you. I became the television after. I had the feeling of channels being changed, completely reorienting my being in the process. My existence projecting light and sound out into the world. It was very bizarre. My friend had a totally different trip than me. I did like that throughout the trip I still had vague control over my thoughts. I could think in clear English and tell myself, "Ok you are on drugs right now, they will wear off in a few minutes. This is interesting let's try and enjoy it."

It may very well be logically true that love and romance are just survival mechanisms, and that all relationships are transactional when reduced down to their core. However none of that really matters because - The map is not the territory. Love is actual and all the anthropological, psychological, and relationship sciences and concepts are just that, science and concepts. Love is transcendent. It's beyond reason. It's illogical. That is fine. You wonder how humanity has slowly gone from tribes slaughtering each other indiscriminately to a globe spanning interconnected society? You may say it's because we've learned that needlessly killing each other is economically unproductive and simply illogical, true. You may also say that we've evolved our governments and systems of law to be more fair, true. What's really true if you look hard enough is that we've expanded our capacity to love. As time goes on our circle of love increases and includes more and more people and beings. Starting with ourselves, to our immediate partners, to our neighbors, to our community, to our culture, to our country, to other cultures and countries, to humanity, to the planet. If you're wondering yes the ego does plays a role in this because it's so pervasive. However it is transcended and evaporated, because it becomes impossible to maintain itself under the weight of love. What I'm saying here is really advanced and profound and you'll probably have lots of resistance and thoughts running through your head like, "Wtf is this hippy talking about." All I'm going to suggest of you, is consider letting go our your need for maps and explanations and go experience. Do that and soon enough your confusion will subside.

You all need to desperately learn and practice acceptance. You're neurotically unwilling to accept the reality that feminists do things that make you mad, and think reality should be another way. They should be perfectly logical, not make mistakes, and behave the way YOU think they should behave. Which if you searched for honestly enough you'd find it would be extremely biased towards your own desires and survival needs. Step outside of yourself for one moment and consider getting an eagle eye view of history to realize the truth (and it is the truth); Men have been historically favored over women for thousands and thousands of years in many aspects. Guess what? We're now in the part of history where they are able to fight back. Do you think they are going to fight clean? Should they fight clean? No, stop being so naive. Saying they should be this way or that way is a projection of your ego. They are behaving in a way that is inconvenient to you. Too bad, quit whining like a little bitch. You sound like a woman! (See what I did there?) Transcend this stupidity. You're keeping the pigs in the mud longer than they have to be by getting in there and trying to wrestle them out. Worst of all you're covered in mud now too. You are literally creating all of your own problems and stress, and you aren't even aware of it.

Before you should tackle the deeper stuff let's just start grasping simple physical infinity with this example. So picture the world exactly as it is right now, now outside your house look at the first patch of dirt you see. Now try to guess all the individual grains of sand in that patch of dirt. Let's say 25 million just because we have to pick a number, each grain has a number to identify it, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, so on up to 25 million. Now imagine the universe again exactly as it is right now, except grain 57,896 is switched with grain 7,454,831. That is a different potentiality than the one we're in right now. "God" could even make an endless amount of changes just to the qualities of each grain of sand! Imagine the displacement of any single atom, molecule, or any other appearance in reality. You'll quickly find that it's hilarious semantics to try and assume we could possibly imagine or map all these differences out because they are literally (in every sense of the word) endless. Another way to describe Infinity is, "Endless Potentiality in all possible and impossible directions." Not to put you down but you're making a mistake by ascribing human qualities and emotions to God. Existence wouldn't become "hell". or God wouldn't get "bored" because God isn't a separate entity. God didn't even create Infinity. God is the Infinity.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Because you can reach all those states sober and wouldn't need to spend hundreds of dollars on weed that rots your lungs? Your ego is justifying the addiction by telling itself you have brain fog sober and need pot.