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@Emerald no Jung?

Gotcha. Yes that's a good point. They may be more inclined to see higher stages of development as about results, versus an academic psychology professor who is focused on cognitive function. To be fair, I think Yellow as defined by the model is likely to be taking a lot of action to change the world. Yellow is still going to have a lot of that SJW programming from Green. But once you start getting to Turquoise or even beyond, it gets very unclear to me what you can expect from that level of development. We're in getting into uncharted territory at that point. In general, the main thing I want to emphasize is beware of your expectations of these higher stages. You probably have a lot of ambition if you're into personal development, and ALL the personal development teachers you have been consuming are pumping you with expectations of your development. Expectations of money, success, fame, health, relationships, spiritual powers etc. All the stuff you want. Some of that is fine, but be careful. Because your development may not always line up with those expectations. And you will not understand why and keep resisting it.

Ain't no body that good.

@Jordan You might do well getting into bodywork and complementary healing modalities. Things like acupuncture, massage, Qi-gong, dietician, etc. If you're really dedicated, you could even do chiropractic.

Fair enough. I don't so much mind bringing in interpretation though. My hunch is they are overestimating the amount of people at Tier 2. 1% at Yellow seems way too high for the global population in particular. But it would be great if we could get more data.

I didn't understand what point you were trying to make here. Explain it again?

I'm saying beware of your expectations. The devil is in what you expect.

That doesn't track at all. You can have happiness without truth. And why would love be closer to truth than truth?

Zen koan: If an oligarch bribes a public official in the forest, but no one is conscious enough to recognize it as corruption, is it still corruption?

If this guy hasn't been posted yet, he needs to be:

Can't help but tell on himself:

@OBEler just tell them what you want. If they don't listen, find a new therapist.

@Magnanimous It depends on how easy it is for you to cut loose. If it's really easy for you, then you probably don't need any practice. If you struggle with it, then it's going to take some effort. It's hard to approximate the number of hours, just work at it until you notice a difference. Try not to turn it into too much of a grind and suck the joy out of it. It's supposed to be fun.

You recognize yourself as truth but don't value it? This is totally backwards. You value truth precisely because you are it. Valuing truth can also be about more relative, normal life situations. It doesn't always have to be the deepest existential truth.

That's a fair point I didn't consider. It may be the case that on a percentage basis people of a higher development hold disproportionate amount of power. That would be interesting to research. How accurate do you think their numbers are?

Not true You can actually value truth.

That article I think points to what I was saying. If you look at the percentage of societal power held by each stage, an obvious bell curve emerges, with Blue-Orange at the peak. Purple and Red have little power since a lot of society has evolved past that point. And the higher stages (Green+) have almost no power at all, especially Tier 2. I think the reality of Tier 2 stages is that they are just too ahead of the developmental curve. Any attempt to bring Tier 2 into systems with Blue-Orange center of gravity will likely result in either the corruption or rejection of Tier 2. Maybe if you were a serious spiral wizard you could make some gains and improve things, but I'd say the system mostly dominates you. Your Tier 2 turns into Tier 1. Okay, but I'd say that's hardly enough on its own to qualify as Tier 2. Tier 1 stages can be strategic and get tangible results. The lower stages are all about tangible, survival results because that's all they know. Look at the rollout of Project 2025. Highly strategic, real world tangible results impacting major systems. Tier 2? I don't think so. Yellow is mostly reacting to the over-optimism / utopian thinking that Green can fall into. Which is valid, but getting results is not unique to Yellow.

The closer to truth, the closer to God. The closer to God, the closer to yourself. Fin.

My point isn't that Tier 2 will express purely mentally. It's more so about what criteria you are using to assess whether someone is Tier 2. Assuming your power and influence over systems will increase as your development increases is an extremely shaky assumption, if not flat out wrong. Systems are often influenced by those who are the least developed or near average. Not the most. I think this is a problem with stage Orange personal development advice generally. They sell you this idea that developing yourself = meeting survival needs like money, power, status, relationships etc. Owen Cook is a master of this. At some point though, you have to grow up and drop this fantasy. You might get some power, but overall developing yourself is often far more sophisticated and intangible than that. If development is about power and human survival needs, then Donald Trump is more developed than all of us. That's where that logic eventually leads you.

But is it safe to assume friends, community, network, business, career and creative work are associated with Tier 2? That's the whole question. Why make that assumption in the first place? Probably there is some correlation with Tier 2, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually stronger with people at Tier 1. It seems to me Tier 2 is better off being assessed through cognitive function and perspective-taking, not your networking success. You can't assume those will go together.

The next phase of actualized.org, we all take steroids

That seems questionable though. Certainly you may have a very successful career and lots of friends. But I don't think I would say that's a necessary prerequisite for Tier 2. What if your work is not highly valued by society? What if you are a Tier 2 stay-at-home mom? What if you're deeply introverted? What if your life purpose doesn't involve a formal career at all? What if you're Tier 2, but you get struck by freak bad health? What if you're Tier 2 but you're just not built for leadership? What if you're already Tier 2, but your work is so difficult that it's going to take you two more decades before it fully shines? I think there's too many possibilities here to assume Tier 2 has to look like Jordan Hall or Vervaeke.

What would having something to show for it look like? And how would you demonstrate it?

Patience and wits is exactly what they don't have. They will lose all their money on crypto, long-shots, schemes, Robinhood and all kinds of other BS. And that's assuming you can even convince them of the value of investing and get them to start. Literally 401ks, pensions and social security. Millions of people across multiple generations have successfully retired on this strategy. 1) That's why we need collective retirement strategies for people, like social security and 401ks 2) Some percentage of people will be able to increase their income. And especially on this forum, people are interested in being in that minority 3) You have no solution to this, just fantasies of investing Student loans can be a good investment for many people. It depends on what you study and how serious you take it.

Most definitely. He's good at not speaking down to people or dismissing their concerns.