arlin

This is an absolutely fantastic insight that you have pointed out here, and i thank you for this. I have to contemplate it further, but i think how can animals suffer even though they are not conscious of their life? I don't think god is external, i think more on the terms of "the absolute" or "the universe" when i say god. I don't think suffering is "bad" existencially. But in human terms, it hurts. You know what i mean? And most of poor people, or other's in general, don't know about that. About god and love, and it's not even their fault because there is no free will... Why would god chose to incarnate in human form, maybe in some poor country, never make this person ever have access to this information, and live in misery? The whole life? There are people like that, there are lives like that. Im just saying it seems cruel. Even if i transcend that duality etc, that guy is still suffering. Just because i realize one day all this incredible truths this still does not change the fact that things like this are happening in the world and pretend to be fine with that. And, if i don't have free will, as human i would feel worse knowing all those things because it is not me that discovered all of this, it was god and he is not doing the same thing with others in an equal way.

I think i might agree with you here. I completely agree of the fact that i can't use logic to know this. I have only had the experience of seeing every my reaction is automatic and i don't exist inside. Not that this is a bad thing, or wrong... Have you become conscious of this fact in your direct experience and if so, how have you done that? And this still does not explain why does god choose a life of misery for other people... I might be free as god (I have no direct experience of this, just speculating), but still, my human life is predetermined. Or is it that i am free and predetermined at the same time? A lot of confusion here for me, as you can see. But mainly, i am really concerned about why does god choose to come into human and experience a life of suffering, if he knows this being has no free will to do something to change his situation. This only seems cruel to me... i mean, from my limited human perspective, yes, but there is still value on that. it's not that everything is god so, that's it. I am also a human.

I will take a look on that.

Oh yes yes, i think this topic is very interesting too! I am just thinking how to formulate my response ahaha, it's coming soon

If you have done that, and other people have done that, don't feel justified to call me egoic and sellfish. If you really wish to give a good example of love, from your "Higher point of view" you should have compassion. Instead you view people who disagree with you or who challenge what you believe as something to be adjusted or fixed. Be carefull about assuming you are radical open minded, and what you believe is the ultimate truth. Even if it is, you still have to demonstrate compassion and curiosity, instead of refusing everybody point's of view.

1: Do you believe we have no free will or not? 2: You should say that to the other user(s) as well, when they said that i am egoic and selfish for what i believe. Be carefull how you respond to me, im not your dumping ground.

I doesn't help me survive to think about why the fuck god decided that somebody would suffer. it's a legitimate question which should be taken seriously by you yourself if you really want to understand things. You are being more closed then me. You should be geniounly concerned about why other people are not in your position to contemplate things like god and love, instead they are destined by god himself to a life of suffering. You are here believing you are blessed when the whole time you had no say about your life, god decided it for your life, while people struggle just to breathe. i hope you realize that the only way for you to be in the position to know about god and love, it's because god chose that for you. If he hadn't you would not be here today. And you are taking ownership of that like this is something you decided to because you worked on yourelf. And then lay down, bury your head in the sand and "enjoy the love". So actually your view of love is more egoic and selfish. If everybody is you, this is a reason for you to be concerned about this topic.

You don't get shit. You are here in you chair thinking about love, when people are suffering because of god's will. You showed no seriousness in your response. Even though god is love does not justify you to say that these people deserve suffering and to be ok with that because it's god. I think you are avoiding something big. Again. It is not you that discovered that. It's god that decided so. Stop attributing to yourself what you have discovered. You have no say about that, and no control over it. To say that you recognized it is really very fucking selfish. Meanwhile you should ask yourself why god chose that for you and why it chose misery and suffering for others.

@Meta-Man Insanely beautifull. Thank you very much for the words!

Yeah yeah, i get what you mean. Most people are just traumatized childen in need to cope. Very little percentage of people here have done serious shadow work and childhood work on themselves first. And getting to know the self can't be only a spiritual thing. It must be a human thing first.

@Prevailer Yes i agree. As far as i know, nobody is god here. I see Everybody as human. So why not embrace that

Very beautiful. This could be the most spiritual thing i've herd on this forum very easily. Most likely you have had poor relationship all your life or stuff from childhood which made you value loneliness and "Being different from everybody else". I don't know that, im just saying. Because this is my case. Don't worry, this is the case with a lot a lot of people here. But they don't recognize it.

Yeah, people here also use their philosophy to avoid feeling their own pain or to relate to the pain of other humans. I agree about the robot thing. I would say it can slowly turn into a cult, especially now since leo is going very far on his path and is being more rigid and needs to take the work "to another level". About the cult thing, you would think it's impossible. Im not saying it is becoming. Im saying there is a risk. People here respond robotically the same fkin way, even if they have no fucking idea what they are talking about. They just model leo. Most of them haven't done 100 5meo dmt trips. Haven't experienced what leo has. Yet they continue to talk the same way leo would do. I really don't understand that. There is a need in this forum for people to really grow their human side before they try to give their semplistic answers to others.

@Prevailer Yeah this is really funny.

Yeah. I also think that the work leo does is not suitable for everyone. I would go as far as to say it should only be really a couple of peoples. Am i crazy? Maybe.

I don't know who'se fault it is but people here are not serious about real growth. 90% of them should not even bother looking at serious spiritual stuff because their life is shit and messed up. Most of them, like myself, are really young, many of them only copy what leo says and respond to you like he would do. If you ask any question abou suffering, you are a devil. 90% Of people here are just armchair philosophers and some never even bother to geniounly get to know your situation if you struggle with something. They will avoid your questions about suffering and problems with replies like "You are devil ego". I feel people here fall pray to close mindedness even if they claim the contrary. If you don't adhere to what they believe, and you have a different point of view, they wont try to understand you. Again, they will reply with semplistic philosophical stuff and get more firm in what they believe. Which makes them feel like "They've got it".

Wrong place to open a thread like that. Here you will get responses like : "Don't worry, suffering is not real" " It's only ego stuff, learn to appreciate reality for what it is" Bla bla bla. Btw i feel confused right now.

@Osaid Horrible answer. you use your bullshit philosophy to avoid answering my questions. And to avoid feeling the pain in your life. If you had a car accident today and became paralyzed for the rest of your life what would you think about the way you answered me? What if you caught a degenerative illness which makes your skin look like shit. Oh but you believe in god, and suffering it's just bullshit ego stuff. Ah i can see how this is working out for you now. A child in africa who is starving does not even know about god and is predestined to suffer and you are saying that this is right?? Like, if you were starving to death and knew you don't have free will and you were predestined to live that way, what would you think about your philosofical little cute concepts? You are a copy of leo, you idolize him and answer like him to feel competent. If your answers are identical to his at least let him answer.

100% agree with leo. 100%

@sausagehead This is very interesting. i never considered this alternative before. But i do know that dp/dr is a state of your nervous system being shut down because it's believing you are dying. It's more trauma related. Maybe physical exercice wakes up the nervouse system and so here it is the explenation.

I've never done psychedelics but i did a circular breathing technique which gave rise to those experiences. I am better now, i don't have severe symptoms. But occasionally i doubt that i have free will and this makes me feel as though everything i do is useless, i don't know, it's awfull.

@PlayTheGame My experience with dp/dr was kinda like this. It is not a fucking joke and is not something that is in your control. Stop telling people that is only about beliefs. pff

I DID. OH MY GOD. DP/DR is something different from spiritual practices. Don't listen to those idiots who have never experienced it that say it's only because of bad beliefs etc... if they had it they would instantly freak the fuck out no matter what they believe. I DON'T THINK it's a matter of what you believe. quote me if you want more info.

Omg leo you quoted the wrong guy ahahahah

Wouldnt you say that is a step to awakening? You mentioned it in your side effects of meditation video.