Danioover9000

@Salvijus From the band wagon fallacy, to appeals to popularity and generalization, to even the false dichotomy, 'Everyone should judge for themselves. Everyone will have their own perception and it's okay.', how is it okay that '100 people will have 100 different perceptions of the same person based on their own level of insight and wisdom.'? Why are you not interested in debating who has the most accurate perception of this situation? Especially when we have some users who make crazy claims about Sadhguru's spirituality and health situation, some users accusing Sadhguru is over working and ignored his health therefore unfit to be some enlightenment Yogi, some claiming this severe health crisis is nothing and that he can heal it via mind eye powers, some psychedelics users even demeaning him here and causing these 2 spiritualist groups to moral and spirit grandstand each other...

@Davino So now you're expanding your argument towards Sadhuru's health condition to include one of the causes as lack of self love, other than over working, taking too many pain killers, among other points?

@Bandman I would claim that Yoga, just like Chinese medicine, alternative medicines, is great for dealing with soft/subtle issues of the mind/body that western scientists and western medicine today struggle with, yet Yoga and alternative medicine is bad when dealing with hardcore/obvious physical damages to the mind/body that western medicine can treat for. Main issue here is people on the other side blindly believing that yoga can help you regrow your lst arms, or bones, or replace your legs magically, yet that's a dangerous assumption and belief to make.

@Ishanga Careful, you also are committing those fallacies yourself with your claim's of @Leo Gura's character, assuming Leo has no idea and knowledge about Sadhguru and his actions. It's true that most users here are belittling Sadhguru and his spiritual methods despite knowing from OP the health issue he's currently facing, but Leo seems less guilty of those fallacies...other than when he brings up psychedelics. and ranks spiritual experiences.

@zazen This is arguably how conspiracy theories start as well. Most cases the theorists provide the dots and connect them with their narrative, but some provide the dots, offer little connections, draw the viewers in to make their story for them. Hypothetically speaking, if we have 2 cases, 1 suspect is told to provide their alibi, the other provides alibi but it's weak and the lawyer/interviewer steps in and interjects, offering their own versions of the story the suspect can then accept that and run with it.

Live reaction from Leo's boy Vlad Vexter: Seems like he's genuine.

@Husseinisdoingfine It's interesting that ISIS is claiming this as their doing. Why, and what evidence do we have so far it's actually ISIS and not some alt right Ukraine soldiers pretending to be ISIS? Or maybe a geopolitical move from Iran, to try and drag Russia into middle eastern conflict, with Israel/Palestine?

Basically mostly this thread: Either Israel has to stop, or HAMMAs has to stop, and we're then stuck with this false dichotomy of Israel/Palestine having to stop. There are other ways and outside factors that could force a stop here, not just only Palestine or Israel having to stop.

@Breakingthewall If it's true that it's obviously not the same, then why say it's the same? If true, wouldn't you now have to either back track and rephrase your position and argument better, or concede your point and then make a new argument in this case? Also are you assuming it's the only logical thing for Israel to expel all the Palestinians, and which Israel? The more traditional Jews, the more left wing Israelis, or Zionists who follow Zionism and right wing ideologies. For example, the strongest argument you could make is to concede your point being made about sameness, clear up your terms, and start talking about specifically a new argument, one about Zionism, the Al Nakba, probably how GB mishandled the region and over favored the European Jews/Zionists and treated the then indigenous population of the Palestinians before 1948. You could then maybe cover how the Igrun, a right wing Zionist group, learned from and taught by GB military tactics and gained equipment, meanwhile Palestinians were getting expelled and subjugated by GB and the Zionists similarly, and even bring up the problem with how some criminals 80-70 years ago were nominated as prime ministers by Zionists, and who knows how many racists Zionists are in the current cabinet of Benjamin Netanyahu has?

@Merkabah Star Is it really true that only the USA can stop Israel?

@Breakingthewall But you made the claim they're exactly the same, so if that's true then Palestinians the same as Japanese? Palestinian culture the same as Japanese culture? Palestinian/Arab state cuisine the same as Japanese cuisine? Palestinian military tactics the same as Japanese military tactics? the demographics of Palestinians the same as the demographics of Japan? The birthrate crisis of Japan the same as the birth rate crisis of the Palestinians? Both Palestinian state and Japanese state share the same economy, history, geography, and many more societal domains? Do you have proof to show both the Palestinians and the Japanese are exactly the same in the narrow sense? Is both the pacific war and the Israel/Palestinian conflict the exact same conflicts of interest? Over land? Is the historical events that led to the Pacific war the same as the events that led up to the Al Nakba, the British mandate, the 3 Intifadas, the Oslo accords, the Yon Kippur war, this current war against HAMMAs?

@Shodburrito More technically speaking, this is what happens when there's too much democracy, liberalism, individualism, egalitarian values, and multiculturalism without some enforcement arms and enforcement mechanisms to check those systems and ideologies in check if and when they hit a ceiling limit, not to mention the decline in birthrates within those westernized secular countries. However you're appealing to Spiral Dynamics modal and ad hominem, and generalization in your argument here by sneaking in your islamophobia of those 'stage purple/red people' you yet defined, into a 'stage orange/green society' you yet defined. Furthermore making a nonsensical hypothetical of taking a 'stage orange/green person' you yet defined, and trying to integrate them into a 'stage yellow/turquoise society' you yet defined, making appeals to false dilemmas that you have yet to show evidence for. So how do you square your fallacies and appeals here in your argumentation?

@Phoenix Garfield Why would karma get them bad? Do you know you're just appealing to a divine justice/punishment, obfuscating individual/collective responsibility of the conflict? It's like the 'it is what it is', 'it is fated to be/predestined to be this way.' type of talking points most religious folks do to remove responsibility and shift blame to some higher authority figure/imagined all powerful figure.

@Breakingthewall It's actually not the same, but it's similar if you take into account the differences in warfare and historical events between the history of the Israel/Palestine conflict versus the pacific war between America and Japan. You'll have to make an argument for why it's the exact same instead of stating it's just the same because you're begging the question in the face of those differences in warfare, culture, and historical events.

@lina What if this comparison is justified because of this tweet? https://x.com/sleepy_devo/status/1769527572860141922?s=20

@Breakingthewall Yes they bombed Tokyo with incendiary bombs knowing most houses were made of wood, and perhaps knowing the ratio of Japanese soldiers to civilians yet they didn't care. After doing some number of tests of the nuclear bomb they had an idea of it's effects yet they still decided to use those nukes over sending 100,000s of American soldiers into Japan. If I'm not mistaken Nagasaki was an accidental drop, they intended to hit another target so civilian deaths is much more higher than soldier deaths. Then they dropped another nuke, I think it's fat boy, onto Hiroshima, and after that the Japanese imperialists had to surrender unconditionally or face extinction by nukes. IMO it'[s a horrendous event in the pacific war, IMO it's easy to argue it's genocidal what the Americans did through and through, from bombing Tokyo to accidental drop of Nagasaki, and the lack of treatment for radiation sickness later on it definitely reasonable to argue it's genocide.

@bebotalk Technically not Israelis or even Israel, but they were considered a Jewish state and Zionists of Zionism before Israel. Israel is only founded after the British mandate and after they secured an alliance with the USA at that time. Considering the events of the Al Nakba it's very understandable they want their lands back.

@J J So what happened here is the arguer, Alex Jones, is using this Israel/Palestine conflict as a prop and red herring to sneak an attack against the government that's left leaning, and the current establishment. We can have plenty of arguments over the definitions of genocide versus ethnic cleansing, IMO what Israel's doing so more ethnic cleansing than a genocide, but categorizing it as a genocide also simplifies the issue because of the killings of both armed combatants(HAMMAs) to civilian Gazans in military combat, or deaths related to illnesses and injuries which could've been treated if hospitals were not being destroyed, or deaths related to thirst and starvation if Israel wasn't too restrictive of water/food supplies, as well as little incidents of shootings by some IDF soldiers in 'justified'. However it's important to stay broad and think in the big picture, and be aware when other biased agents are using this event to posit their ideology. I don't want to poison the well or ad hominem Alex Jones, but he's an alt right conspiracy theorist who's mostly anarchist against the main establishment, so I'd take his takes with a grain of salt.

@Javfly33 I agree there were a few fallacies made here like the projection argument and ad hominem/begging the question, which once again it all started with a bad framing for this discourse. Also yes, some spiritual communities are similarly guilty of ad hominems and question begging, and circular logic, but IMO that is insufficient justification to be demeaning to Sadhguru when he's in this emergency health situation. As far as my guess with Leo's take here? I think he's trying to state there are many degrees of awakening and spiritual experiences, while stating that no matter your genetics for spirituality, your body is still finite and limited, and is still being effected by causes within this world's physicality logic. I'm guessing he's just saying there are hierarchies and orders to these spiritual experiences, in kinds and degrees. I don't think he's triyng to downplay or demonize Sadhguru, dunk on him to prop up his psychedelic spirit methodology or be nihilistic. I could be wrong.

and are a few clip examples of his debate style.

@bebotalk I agree, although IMO Andrew Wilson's debate style would be more efficient because he does directly engage with argument points without the sophistry, and almost always manages to make Destiny angry from both his direct engagement to his interruptions.😂

@Ishanga I agree. If we hold spiritual masters, Zen monks, Buddhists, Gurus, and so on on a higher standard, or a high standard, we should respect them to some degree. If we respect @Leo Gura and his work here, then we should extend that same standard to Sadhguru and other spiritual masters that have their higher calling. Tangent but this whole thread is like this due to how it's setup from the beginning so no surprise it's this petty. I don't even know why this is in the society/political/government sub forum, this SHOULD BE IN THE HEALTH FORUM!🤦‍♀️

Felt like sharing this here:

@Bobby_2021 Crysty's fine, we've been busy renovating the castle.

A very interesting account, about 3,000 years ago. Take with some grains of salt, but there's some insight in it: