Danioover9000

Also, not just appeals to pathos and ethos as frequent, but of all the appeals and fallacies, appeals to logos is the most dangerous IMO as it's considered widely acceptable in consensus reality that LOGOS can't be coopted by ego or FEELINGS..

@Ajax IMO, based on developmental factors like Spiral Dynamics stages of development, cognitive and moral development, personality types/traits, 9 stages of ego development, states of being and becoming, other lines of development in life to societal domains, ideological beliefs indoctrinated in upbringing and culture, and self biases and other biases I'd rather get judged and assessed based on BOTH my actions, speeches and my character, not one over the other. Yes, it's okay to give constructive critique or general more of an attacking critic of a person's actions here when they break laws or are immoral and harm and are dangerous to other people's well beings, but so is critiquing the person himself or herself as well, the stem from which these questionable actions com from too. I'd be careful with heavily appealing to logos, to being objective, using reason and logic, and being fair and impartial. These appeals are disingenuous because these appeals are used by the ego mind to justify and defend it's egoic takes and biases against other egos trying to threaten it's own SURVIVAL. Like the term 'facts over feelings.', this doesn't mean FACTS ARE SUPERIOR TO FEELINGS, BUT RATHER FEELINGS ARE SUPERIOR TO FACTS, THAT FACTS ARE PARTIAL AND FEELINGS ARE TOTAL, that feelings and the ego coopt and use facts all the time to defend itself or attack other biases. Even if there's a problem with irrationality, that irrationality is the foundation of the UNIVERSE, and for the most part that irrationality is the longest time spent under evolution, from which we only recently discovered logic around the time of Aristotle, or Plato. That's just about 1,500 years ago the western society, or the Greek philosophers have discovered and formulized logic into some format, that later on gets refined during the renaissance and the industrial Era. Also this point of irrationality severing communications isn't quite true, as animals that are far more irrational can still communicate with it's own family, and even to other animal species. Even crazy humans can communicate despite the cognitive differences or challenges. The main problem with some, not all not all not all but some, Trump supporters, is like they're very similar to victims of con artists or scammers, or victims of hostage takers and terrorists. They'll suffer all kinds of cognitive dissonance and biases, like Stockholm syndrome, survivor's guilt and other cognitive twists that makes the perpetrators appear heroic or meaningful in the victim's minds. HOW CAN WE HAVE A RATIONAL DISCOURSE WITH SOME PEOPLE LIKE THESE? So, there's a list of methods that are feminine and are slow and circular, and then there's some masculine ways of being direct and blunt, like telling them directly that they're victims of a con and scam, that Daddy Trump mind slayed your mind into an emotional state that allows him to win you're vote. Each feminine and masculine approaches may have their pros and cons, but for some the masculine approach is the best way to shake up a victim's mind into facing actual reality, and not be in this circle of lies it tells itself just to avoid admitting that it was conned and scammed and to not face the feelings of shame. Sometimes telling the truth directly is the only way to get some of these people to wake up, sometimes too much sugar coating isn't good.

@Intraplanetary Says the ego mind? Again don't trust that ego mind too much, nor in another person like Robert Green who you have no idea of and limited experiences with, just seems like a lot of appeals to pathos and ethos and some logos. Robert Green is both right and wrong about passion, his assumptions of finding passion is bad is bad advice itself, but in regards to dedicating time and deliberate practice he's partly right, but partly wrong in his starting assumptions. most human beings still need to explore and find out more of what they're passionate about, learn more about themselves before over committing to some field. Are you replying to this user?: @zurew Also, it's PASSION /=/ MOTIVATION, not passion != motivation, unless it's semantically and syntax similar?

@Intraplanetary Why do you think it's so good to not follow your passions in this short video, and trust this person in giving a vision to you over your heart and ability to create a vision for your own life? Are you always trying to look for exceptional feelings, even when working or doing hobbies, or even now as you're reading my post? Why is it a fact that 'we' have to face boredom and tediousness? When you've said 'we', are you referring more to yourself instead of me or the readers because how do you know I'm as bored or tedious feelings as you have? and why appeal to band wagon and inclusivity here when you're the only one feeling the boredom and tediousness and venerating Robert Green here? Are all these conditioned only when doing some work, like you can only feel bored or tedious when doing work but not hobbies or games or other recreational activities?

Another great analysis of Megan:

@ryandesreu The three classic taboos to never talk about in public or work and should only be private or with trusted friends and family: Sex, religion and politics, for they are emotionally charged as hell to discourse with strangers. What I don't like in this situations, with every mobile filming, always is the case the conflict in the footage is after 1-2 minutes of it happening, so we don't know if trump supporter here was actually instigating or not to wind up the shop clerk, we don't know who actually started it. I definitely agree that shop clerk SHOULD'VE stayed calm, be mindful of the triggering label on his shirt, be mindful of how he's feeling and thinking and immediately become calmer instead of frustrated, slow breaths, let go of thoughts of Donald Trump being racist or xenophobic or whatever, now's not that time, to vent, now's just me being a clerk, served the trump supporter much more quickly than other customers to get him outta the store fast and not make a scene, as I typically do with people I hate or dislike strongly, just ASAP do the business, strict business with them so hopefully they leave quickly, ignore all small talk attempts and BE ONLY BUSINESS LIKE. Maybe that's too stage orange attitude, but that attitude can help A LOT when dealing with people a person doesn't like, for the most part.

@ryandesreu You're welcome, although I gave a lot of jumbled up answers I'm close enough. Now that I think about it, since this incident is in a restaurant or some fast food joint, I do think the refund is possible as long as you have the bill or receipt for the order, in which case yes she should've refunded his order straight away and be sorry and not have lost her calm and scolded him. I'll also say a security guard here would've helped a little bit here and the other employees who are more calm would've and maybe should've interjected here. Maybe the mask and the annoying breath and sweating from it and her inexperience with handling disgruntled and angry customers is probably why she didn't handle the situation well.

@Ajax I agree, just don't get mind slayed by Donald Trump and con artists like him and we're all good.

@ryandesreu I could see more signs here and there, but based on what I'm seeing from the film (which BTW the footage is in the middle of the conflict so no clear definitive claim of which party did start and escalate the situation first) the female employee failed to remain and maintain calm, and control her tone of voice and have a more softer tone, but it's harder to discern here her face because of her mask on. So it starts with him saying "Why YOU can't do no refund?" this is direct question to HER, and her response "I asked my manager from-and this is an ORDER FROM MY OWNER-WE can't do no REFUND. ALL WE CAN DO IS GIVE YOU THE REFUND AND(inaudible the last bits of her sentence)" with quick head shakes and I think she's also sanitizing her hands, either as a self soothing gesture to try and relieve the building stress, a distraction or just to clean her hands but it can be all that. Here I don't know enough if there's an actually policy in this work place for a refund of a defective product, but don't they do refunds typically? Also this seems like it's during Covid lockdowns so maybe that's adding to this issue on top. When he said "I don't want the FOOD-I DON'T WANNA WAIT-I DON'T HAVE TIME TO WAIT ON THE FOOD AGAIN!" and she replies with a dead panned "Okay...", based on tone of voice she has given up being civil and is preparing to lash back, like there's this tone of apathy coming on, all the while rubbing hands still, like a calm before the storm moment. Then the guy, with wide active arms emphasizes her OKAY with "OKAY, so NOW WHAT DO WE DO?!" and he places his hands on table, leans to her as she's telling him off, and this is the part that spikes the escalation. Her tone now gets energized and matches his tone and slightly more aggressive, her hands now more active and emphasizing her "IT'S EITHER YOU GET YOUR FOOD REMADE-OR GO ABOUT YOUR DAY!(This part of her statement her hands swings and over emphasizes and karate chops to her left in a dismissive manner, to also refer to her manager I assume.) AND STOP YELLING AT MY OTHER MANAGER. BECAUSE-THAT'S-NO!-THAT'S UNCALLED FOR-(Around this part he lifts from him leaning on table, leans to his left, quick glance of that table of contents, signaling what he's about to do. Also She's shaking her head quickly here emphasizing his uncalled for behavior which to me she's partly right here, YET the customer is always right in most cases, and when there's a disgruntled customer the employees have to handle with extra care or they end up escalating like this).". I guess, from the limited camera angle I have as I can't see his facial expressions, or other body language signs from his front but I can hear his tonality and partly see other signs of building anger. Same with her handling, even though I can see her front she's wearing a mask, and her hands were rubbing each other for sanitization which may also be defensive and for soothing. Can't comment on the other male employees, maybe they could've interjected here but I have the feeling the Bystander effect is effecting them, and they're indecisive and don't have deescalation training down, in fact seems like none of them do. I feel like in these situations is were a security guard or a nearby police would've helped deescalate the situation, as from the limited footage I can tell he's just after the refund, and is getting more frustrated here I don't know if that's possible or not based on their work policies, but he kind of dug he's own mess by pressuring them that he doesn't have all day or the time, he's only for the refund which straight away my advice would be to just give the customer the refund and adjust your body language to an apologetic one in tone as well, sub communicate you don't want to fight and be generally sorry for the inconvenience. I mean it may be different there than in here because when me and my Dad went to this ice cream shop, he already paid for a pair of mister whipies, and the employee operating the machine found that there's little to no ice cream left, something wrong with the machine or whatever, and they quickly were apologetic and offered the money back, gave their series of excuses and we generally didn't fuss or were too frustrated as they're straight away apologetic. If they behaved like the cashier here was, I could see how it'll piss me off and my Dad more and further increase tensions, like we can't get refunds over ice creams??? Again I'd give the refund here but if it's against work policies then...they kind of shot themselves in the foot here. Am I correct in my interpretation and close? And what is the three mistakes you're alluding to here?

@Ajax True to some extent, from my POV, depending on certain word choices within a topic, tonality, micro expressions on face, the eye brows and muscular tensions around face, head, neck shoulders, non verbal leaks in the arms and hands, and even down to their feet I can already pick up so many subconscious clues and ticks in reaction to what the other twin said or the other interviewer said. I haven't said this in my analysis, but also worth factoring is how they use their humour, and irony, to also soften and disguise intent. Like with the Zuby podcast video, and the PBD video, when Keith or Kevin I don't know told that moment when they lost a lot of followers for that short video, I already seen that video here: And if you compare what they said here to what they're saying in podcasts, that's omitting parts of a truth you've said, which if you look closely in the Zubby video, when Kevin(the black shirt, arms typically crossed, I've noticed Kevin doing this posture far more than Keith) and Keith was eyeing him, and you can briefly see tension around lips and mouth, that subconscious part of him worrying if Kevin would tell the WHOLE truth and not PART of the truth, because again that video, and the last two statements of prompting the audience to imagine the twins wearing the maga hat plus the 'MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN' line was actually what caused that downfall, and not the current narrative from Keith/Kevin of them overreacting to them saying that he shouldn't assault the 'kids'(mind you, the 'kid' was a very tall white teenager) for wearing a hat. Sorry, but there's much more going on in that 54 second video than you're letting on. If I haven't clarified then, I was a fan of the Hodge twins for some time, so I've already soaked in their mannerisms and what they do really mean when they were old content makers, based on my observing them implicitly for entertainment and comedy, until they became too political and I moved on to other things. So, in this sense I've already got a rich collection of visuals and tells and mannerisms in my mind of the Twins that it's enough to intuitively feel if one was defensive/lying or not.

Another interesting take by James Cameron, will be analyzing his body language:

@rnd Aren't you a bit late to the party? I'm pretty sure Leo's been talking about Trump like that, and all of the sudden now you bring it up now and not years ago when he was talking a bit negative of Trump then??

Another great example, again you are so rational and objective, yet don't realize how your ego mind has corrupted those values to serve it's own agendas, self biases and SURVIVAL. All this, yet you don't realize how Trump mind slayed your mind making it side with him, and you claim to be an objective rationalist? Yeah right: Unless someone here explains to me how this isn't an immature take?

This is a great example of a person, who seems a mature person, who is mostly ignorant of developmental factors such as stages of development, cognitive and moral development, personality types/traits, ego development, states of consciousness and other lines of development in life domains to societal domains, and has self biases and preferences and ideological beliefs indoctrinated from culture and upbringing, giving his take based on values of objectivity and rationality and he himself in a state of objectivity, appealing to logic and some ethos and pathos, even when he's mostly ignorant of how he's running cover for those wearing MAGA hats, and some trump supporters that are actual nationalists, ethnocentrism people and Supremacists calling themselves conservatives or ,the irony, VIRTUE SIGNALLING themselves as valuing conservative values: Of course, we can't immediately assume the start of him filming is the actual start of this conflict between the shop owner and disgruntled customer, as he literally starts filming in the middle of this conflict which makes this analysis a bit not objective again, but I do agree that the shop owner should have kept a calm state of mind and being in handling this guy, when there's also the possibility that the Trump guy here could be intentionally pissing off this guy for the opportunity to film him this way and make further false appeals to a leftist being unfair to a guy wearing a Trump support shirt or some MAGA hat. If anything this also demonstrates how political slogans or labels can trigger and change other people's states of mind and being from just perceiving those slogans

I would but I don't want to get warning points and another suspension for posting hate speech or promoting demonization or close mindedness and being a jerk here.

@Extreme Z7 This is actually a good example of when it's mostly an immature take, but some bits of mature wisdom in it despite the victimhood narrative.

@ryandesreu If he was smarter he'd better off leaving the store several seconds when the two guys where bickering, ditch the products someplace and left the two immature gentlemen to sort their girly issues out.

@ryandesreu Are you responding to this post?: @lostingenosmaze ? Similar situation I found myself in a couple of weeks ago, not this intense but I was in a que and then I saw a disgruntled customer and cashier go at it, and the disgruntled guy was trying to involve me in it that I just left my stuff there and left the store not wanting any part of their bitching nor want to be some witness to some stupid case ???

I don't know much of Zuby's podcast, or his biases, whether his left middle or right leaning, but apparently a fan of Hodge Twins for more than ten years: I'm also an ex fan, for roughly that time, for their old content and comedy mixed with fitness and junk food reviews, although never cared for their fitness or junk food stuff, only for the comedy and ridiculous shenanigans they come up with. However, when they became more political, after is when it didn't resonate, too much pandering to white supremacists and alt right a bit, using ads for a pick up truck, and their 'Chinese virus affiliation code' or something, and repeating most right wing talking points. That's where I drew the line. They're sellouts not because they're traitors, mainly because of their fast switch to more political takes with comedy, just because they did this reaction the wrong way. Can't find the video but if you guys find that short video of them reacting to a big Indian guy taking that maga hat from a white teen, splashing his drink on him and walking away, that short. EDIT: Found that clip, and the original from I think Instagram or Tik Tok, the two white teens were taller and slender and the guy doing the assaulting is much bigger: https://youtu.be/_2DPW5AmRE8

@meta_male I mean it's the ethics and morality of it. Why post nasty memes of the titanic, when 5 people died? Where is like some breathing room, let the situation die down, and then post memes later? I just don't like it, yeah it's a silly event that shouldn't have happened, but it's wrong to meme about it.

@Ajax Typically the muscles around the eyes tense, followed by other areas of the face as the conscious mind puts effort into focusing, and the subconscious mind is agreeing or disagreeing with what thoughts/feelings arise, caused by word choices, the topic discussed, the loaded statements/question said to the person. I assuming you're referring to James Cameron? Not too sure myself exactly why there's that range of tensions on the face when concentrating, it may be because in earlier life the person sees faces scrunched up, and it's very closely followed by the word focusing or concentrating, or when someone says to you and emphasizes that the other guy with that thinking face is 'concentrating'. IDK, to me seems also like that person's mind is accessing other mental representation systems(NLP=Neuro-linguistic-programming) when the eyes look at certain directions, like upwards or upwards left accessing a visual memory, or upwards right is imagining a visual, left for auditory memory and right for imagined or constructed auditory, lower right for constructed kinesthetic or feelings and lower left for remembering feelings and kinesthetic senses. Some people are so hard wired, for example Elon Musk, that their heads typically follows briefly where the eyes look, whilst accessing that part of the brain. I will be analyzing James Cameron's behavior in that interview, and also the other one too later, but do feel free to post what you think and observe when looking at that interaction.

Another example, despite it being 10 minutes it's enough to observe body language and tonality and how words are used between the interviewer and James Cameron:

@meta_male Have you seen the memes of the Titan yet? It's just savage.

@Leo Gura Nice share, I agree he's a good example of a mature and understanding mind. Of course, no one can role modal exactly James Cameron copycatting him, but yes his mature take should be noted.

@Schizophonia Stippling usually more the fingers and sometimes the thumb connecting on the tips is typically a power sign, that you're subconscious mind is displaying confidence and power through the hands. When seated typically it's on the table, or slightly raised above, or sometimes on the lap combined with other body language signs and tonality that gives confidence. Sometimes stippling can be in the prayer position, maybe with some fingers interlocked and middle/index fingers or just index fingers pointing like Kevin did in that podcast, both a sign of defensiveness yet wanting to display power or emphasis on what was said or did. Of course, stippling alone I can't determine if it's your habit of just displaying power or 'master minding' a situation, or it's something else as you've stated you like doing this a lot so it's a bad habit of yours. This is why in body language analysis we need several other contexts and other signs together to see where you're incongruent or congruent with your conscious mind's statements and word choices to tonality and non verbal cues, so just looking at your hand position alone there can technically mean much more.