Bill W

Hi, First posting on someone's journal (I think). I've only read the last entry and some of the very first entry as I don't know the etiquette on what to post or not on someone's journals. I guess it depends on the original poster. You seem to be flexible on this? Please guide me. Loads of real life problems you list. I've seen some of your other posts as well. You seem quite pragmatic and curious which is how I like to think I am. By the way, I'm a mental health nurse who took a special interest in type 2 diabetes and weight loss. I know I don't look like a nurse from my Avatar. I'm really interested in health related behaviour change but that's not something I want to overly display on this journal. I've only read one and a half of your entries and feel like I have loads in common with you. I'm going to try and link the similarities in further down the line. I can tell you I'm new to the Bible and Christianity. Haven't identified myself as a Christian, but am exploring. I'm a recovering addict who has been clean for about 8 months. I've been in the Bible most days for the past few months. I also have body image issues quite badly, but I am not saying you have. I thought I sensed a flavour of that from you though. I also often only really help out if it's in my comfort zone. This is something I am trying to better myself on. Your Avatar is about humility. Humility and openmindedness are my most treasured values. Working hard on these. I've just finished typing up my favourite Bible versus on Humilty, Compassion and Forgiveness. What else briefly...... yeh with the Leo thing. There's tons of stuff on here I think is nonsense, but that could be down to my ignorance. I'm trying not to rule anything out. Equally, I'm learning a lot from being on here. Loving it so far. I'm going to read the whole journal before I go any further.

@jbram2002 @seeking_brilliance Me as well. Count me in.

I'm not disagreeing with this but the thing that interests me is that surely a lot of direct experience still relies on an interpretation being made by the person having the direct experience. The person having the direct experience will choose what that direct experience actually means. So it's fascinating to me how people having direct experience account for personal bias when formulating the 'truth' from that direct experience.

There is a lot of reference to direct experience. One poster was posing the question, what is the difference between direct experience and a belief? Direct experience is sometimes seen as the truth I guess? Or something beyond belief? I don't see it this way necessarily. I would say that many, many direct experiences are possibly also a belief. It would be interesting to see who says they have had a direct experience that is not a belief. I am thinking that much direct experience still involves the person making an interpretation about what this direct experience means. The interpretation means they are coming to a conclusion via a belief. There is a belief that this direct experience means.... blah, blah, blah or whatever you choose the direct experience to mean. Direct experience of having your hand burned by scolding water. Not a belief. A direct experience independent of belief. Person saying they have had an awakening.... This is a belief and a direct experience.

Hi Shaun, If I were you, which I am not of course, i would reflect on the responses here but also make sure you have some other input from people not from this forum. Perhaps you are doing this already. It might help maintain an openmind on some of your issues. Someone else might spot something that we don't know about or we have not considered.

Being pragmatic, perhaps for people at a certain stage of their development (me for example) the issue is perhaps what impact does the self-image have? What problems does it cause? What can be done? For me a self image is there whether I want or not. Like delusional thoughts. They are here. It's what I do with them (or not do with them) that's important.

I'm trying to keep an open mind and avoid judgement! With soul-lover... Glancing through the thread. Is there a desire to ridicule his beliefs? Or to entertain yourselves possibly at someone else's expense? I don't know. So just asking? Maybe he is in the joke and would find it funny?

Thanks for sharing your God beliefs. What I like about this place is that people are willing to share their beliefs and keep an open mind about what beliefs others may have that are different to their own belief. I guess that's one of the key ingredients in self actualisation? To keep and open mind?

Okay my response to this is based on where I am at with my experience and development, so here goes..... This is what I'd tell myself right now if the same happened and I reacted the same as you.... You took it personally and that's the main problem here. You might say "well of course I took it personally", and I used to think this all the time. I used to think taking things personally was something automatic, something I was entitled to do, something that makes perfect sense. I am slowly learning it doesn't have to be this way. There is a better way. I can't remember where I read this, perhaps from Don Miguel Ruiz who I have learned a lot from. I try to focus on...... that when someone behaves in a manner I don't like toward me, it could be that this person is giving me a demonstration of their sickness, their Hell, their problem mind. I'd rather they didn't give me this "update", but it happens. It could be family, strangers or anyone. Road rage is a good example. Most likely this person's behaviour is not personal to me. This person probably has these outbursts or unhelpful behaviour towards other people as well. I reflect that I used to "act out" as well and still do, but I am getting better with this. I think that perhaps this other person is not as far into his development as me. This other person doesn't have a programme perhaps. This person might be in Hell and he is displaying that his world is not good. You wanted to say something ugly to him? I know that feeling oh so well. For me, this means you/we feel wronged and that it's not fair what they did. How dare they!!!! Perhaps we think that if we retaliate then justice has been served. We have to question the need to administer justice. This is the tough bit.... you can choose to engage with the person on their level or you can walk away.... You can leave them in the dust. Sometimes in surrendering, we can have victory.

I hear you! I do. But if you ask someone to stop or change tact and they don't, you are then vulnerable as you have potentially already mentally started "rallying the troops" and drawn a line in the sand. This is not to say we need to be a door mat and just roll over passively. But if you can walk away, stay truly humble, you can begin to transcend the animal instinct. Leave the other person in the dust. Let the other person sort out the mess. It's not your mess. Go to battle and "win"? The victory will be short lived as sure as shit, the pattern will repeat. Some other provocation will appear. Not preaching honest but how about the serenity prayer here? God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, And wisdom to know the difference.

Maybe we could consider we are all on the same team to a degree. All under the umbrella of self improvement but perhaps different denominations! I don't mean to specifically use religious language here but it kind of fits from where i sit. Also some of us are more prone to feeling violated or offended or spoken down to. Things we have been doing for years and years will not disappear over night. Some of us go after 'justice' more vigorously than others if we feel wronged, judged or misunderstood. I learnt than anger is one negative emotional state that we are likely to hold on to. There can be reluctance to let anger go in my experience. Most other negative emotional states we want to be free of ASAP I believe. Anger not so much. The David Hawkins book taught me a lot about this. I'm 44 years old and it's taken years and years to be less reactive and defensive with internet debates and such. To not take things personally. In surrendering you can have victory. To look the other way and let some shit go is a habit I feel that needs practice. It goes against instinct. On this forum I have no position to defend. I have nothing to fight for.

Could be true for some. No doubt. I suppose we can only speak for ourselves rather than speak for all. I cherish my mental health and yet this is the right place to be. It's what you make of it. You could argue that it is the right place to be if you value your mental health. Depends on the individual needs and vulnerabilities really.

I guess it depends on how you define meditation. Mindfulness is a form of meditation. If you mean sitting at the steering wheel driving with your eyes closed contemplating the meaning of life then yeh I see your point.

I don't know about the first paragraph. I am not disagreeing. I just don't know. 2nd and 3rd paragraphs I believe in. I guess we have been searching for this "truth" since the year dot. The likelihood that Leo Gura happens to have stumbled across it is unlikely. I can't completely rule it out though. I don't know if people are uncomfortable with the term belief. Does it somehow feel insulting to say Leo has beliefs and is sharing his beliefs? That he is asking us to believe what he believes. Of course he thinks his beliefs are more correct than incorrect. He wouldn't hold them otherwise. He is human. Most people who feel they are on to something or discovered something are enthusiastic to spread the word. To carry the message. If the belief is complex and not understood by others that doesn't transform it from a belief to the real truth. This is my stance right now. I'm comfortable with it. I am also here to keep an open mind. If Leo has done what millions of others have failed at, I am open to being convinced of his truth. Will the name Leo Gura be associated with a huge breakthrough in 10 years time. 100 years time. 1000 years time? Who knows. He could be the Neil Armstrong of the future for all I know.

Do you have any mental health issues you'd like to overcome? I have a shit load. Just wondered what you had in mind?

This

Love this post. Hit.Nail.On.Head there for me. To me, Leo is making suggestions. He is inviting people to share his beliefs. I don't think he gives a shit if we do or not. His wording might not seem like suggestions or invitations, but I believe it cannot be anything other than suggestions and invitations. One human out of over 7 billion humans on Earth. One persons view. One persons take. All be it, a highly clever fucker and seemingly has done a shit load of work to get where he is.

Yep, and this forum is a good training ground for that :-)

Not only is that really funny, I actually properly laughed, it's so true. I'm saving that and printing it, but not mostly for it's humour value, for it's actual true value, so thanks for this.

Can I first ask what a science truth is? It would help me work out if I have something to contribute here, cheers :-) And what do you mean by finger pointed?

Might matter to the other party like the pedestrian or other driver! :-) I actually try and meditate when driving. Radio and music off. Just focus on exactly what's in front of me. Present moment only. Helps conquer road rage as well. Well it does my end :-)

I appreciate you are just talking for yourself and not for everyone. I'm here for all those three C's. Actually I'd say I am mostly here for comfort and I have that comfort. My comfort levels didn't change when I kind of felt my first topic got blown out the water and I felt out my depth. Still felt comfortable as this is the internet. The forum won't impact on my comfort levels even if I don't quite fit in. So much wisdom on here. Just depends how you deal with stuff and how you take the rough with the smooth. It's all good man. It's all comfortable.

I break things down to either 10 or 20 or 30mins or even 5 mins if needed. What I mean is that I set an alarm on my phone and all I do for the allotted 10-30 mins is start the thing I am procrastinating on. Better still I try and do this 'task' or 'thing' mindfully. When it works it can mean not only have I started the task but I might even have managed to do mindfulness meditation at the same time. When the alarm goes off I am entitled to either stop the activity dead or carry on if I feel like it. Sometimes when I'm really bad on the procrastination I will set the alarm for just 5 mins. I keep a written record of how many minutes each day I have done something I would normally not do due to procrastination. It motivates me. I keep score. Even if I manage only 5 mins it could be considered a success some days. 5mins can lead to 30mins sometimes and 30mins can lead to half a day!

Yes thanks. I needed to hear that as well. Easy to forget.

Thanks for your post. Can I quickly butt in and ask you if there is anything specific that particularly draws you to Peter Ralston? I've not read any of his stuff or listened to him yet.