Bill W

How to get rid of neurosis? Good topic. Getting rid completely is a lofty goal, but to start the ball rolling....... Also, I'm not talking about regular levels of the below attributes, I'm talking enhanced levels, levels that take time and work to get to, levels higher than the average person. Neurosis builds up through time and gets hard wired into the mind. It won't just go if asked nicely, you have to dig deep. 1. Courage & Faith as things will get worse before they get better and if you are looking for an easy way out, I don't think there is one 2. Self-honesty as if you fail to diagnose the real issues, you will fail to match the right intervention to them 3. Humility as you will need to give up being so important 4. Selection of behavioural and cognitive techniques which may include things like; meditation & mindfulness, education, eliminating substance misuse, overcoming avoidance, general relaxation, letting go of attachments, detachment from thoughts, developing new habits, letting bad habits go, identifying and overcoming the need for instant gratification. 5. Might need to identify a suitable mentor, sponsor, or therapist to help with steps 1-4 above. The neurotic is unlikely to achieve the above themselves. There are a lot of traps to side-step and negotiate. It's also especially hard to do number 1 on your own. I believe you need a power greater than yourself.

Hell no. Leo and the mods do a great job locking threads that require locking. If you have a thread locked, either heed the warning and advice or move on to another forum. Leo and the mods give plenty of opportunity for said person who had thread locked to learn from their mistake. I'd say considering the aims of this forum, Leo and the mods are very patient with many.

Real to you. Mostly you interpret your "direct experience" to mean something. You cannot escape that much direct experience is an interpretation and therefore subjective. Burning yourself on a red hot stove is direct experience. Not much interpretation if any is applicable. The direct experience is pain. I think this is what you mean. Only a tiny fraction of your direct experience can avoid being an interpretation and therefore subjective. It sounds like you are almost saying that you have managed to short-circuit your brain and stop it from making an interpretation of your direct experience. Why don't you tell us some of the things you have down as direct experience and we can let you know if they are subjective or not. EDIT: I think I missed your post above which may have partly answered my post, so this might not be relevant now.

Agree, agree, agree.

My favourite posts on this topic. I would add to acceptance that going to sleep at night not fearing tomorrow is happiness for me.

So when does something become slander in terms of your thread title and post? I've never heard of this guy anyway.

Is that what 5-MeO-DPT is? Self annihilation? Sounds extreme.

I love your honesty. You'll get there. You have heart. I am more speaking out loud here than specifically aiming it at you but I do wonder sometimes if people over emphasise meditation. I think it's crucial don't get me wrong. I think it's actually essential, but, I do sometimes sense a flavour that people think if only they meditated more or meditated all day everything else would get better. Not saying that's what you think. You haven't alluded to that at all. It's just that for me personally (and my journey is different to yours) if I was having a retreat I'd make meditation a big focus but not the entire focus. I personally think a retreat should encompass a variety of spiritual practices. Things like being in nature, connecting with like minded people, reading, self inquiry (not sure about this one though), exercise, watching an uplifting spiritual film can all be part of a spiritual holiday / retreat. You can say it's the ego stopping you. You might be correct, but perhaps you just weren't as committed and enthusiastic about it as you thought you were.

Agree with this. These churches and such places you list have no obligation to cater for your needs. If they have rules that exclude you then tough luck. That's life. There's got to be some places or a place that you will find accepting, you just have to keep looking..... Good luck and best wishes though, I don't mean to put you down or anything, I just needed to say this.

Bonnie Tyler be so proud of you. You are about to be rocketed into the 156th dimension.

Slight variations to basically the same thing (service to others); Asking someone if they need help with anything right now, today, or this week. Doing something nice for someone but not telling anyone about it. Helping someone and not expecting to be thanked for it, perhaps the other person doesn't even realise you have just helped them.

There are no benefits to stopping watching porn or stopping yourself from masturbating. It's just another thing us obsessives think will lead to a better life if we conquer it.

Great thread. I'm loving all this holistic psychologist material here and in the journal section of the forum. Reading about that day from hell you had, I can relate to it so much, it's like I wrote this thread myself! And by a strange twist of fate, you write about not asking the girl on a date and that you've been considering this for a while. I was given a golden opportunity to do this very same thing two days ago, and the timing of reading your thread is weird. I've been single for about 5 or 6 years now. And I've seen no "activity" in about 4 years. No dates. No sex. No kissing. Nothing in about 4 years. I'm getting more and more introverted as I go, especially around girls. I literally don't know what to do to progress things if someone shows an interest. Anyway, someone showed a lot of interest at a works training two days ago. I made what for me is taking the initiative and asking for her number to "stay in touch about work issues" as I put it. I'm such a pussy!!!! I'm seeing her tomorrow out of work, but the great thing is, neither of us are calling it a date. For me that's great, as I am a pussy that doesn't like taking risks with girls (major, major works needed on this). We are going to the gym and then I'm helping her with some tax refund stuff online. There's no pressure of it being a date which suits my lack of courage and guts right now . The danger in these situations is that my introvert nature and unwillingness to make the first move can be interpreted that I am not interested. The joys of social anxiety! Anyway, back to you. It's nice to get some more insight into you. I've been following a lot of your posts since I've joined the forum recently. You are on my VIP list Any chance of you coming across this girl again in the near future? The one you regret not asking out.

@flume That book looks awesome ?

Have you thought about using the mental health sub forum? Might get more support?

Nice share. So is this going to be a journal based on her approach and discussing her approach?

So many different answers. I think maybe my take could be a minority view. For me contemplation can be a form of meditation. For me contemplation is not looking for answers or trying to solve something. For me contemplation is deeply thinking and reflecting on something you have already answered or have read and agree with. I use this practice in my meditation. For example I might pick a short verse from the bible that inspires me. I will keep my eyes open if needed to read and re-read the verse. I will try to think of nothing but the verse and what it means to me. What is the essence of it? But I wouldn't say I am trying to answer anything. I am trying to embed a powerful short text. It gives a natural high when I do this. I try to become one with the text. For me you can't say meditation is not thinking. It's about how you try to deal with the thinking when it happens. It really depends on the type of meditation. Most people talk about meditation without clarifying what they mean and then that can lead people to think thay everyone knows what everyone else means when they say "meditation". This thread shows that many people meditate on their own unique way.

Jbram please excuse some if the tone above. I'm not angry. Perhaps I'm on the minority and not feeling impacted by Leo's management style. I've also not been on the receiving end of his tough love. I'd like to think it wouldn't bother me but who knows. I know your post above comes from a good place. Good intentions. You are a very thoughtful person. I'm just baffled why people expect Leo to cater for their individual needs so much.

This will sound heartless and not directed at you. If people don't like the forum they don't have to be here or as in my case you just have to get what you can from it warts and all. I don't even click with Leo. He has made some statements on things that to me that sound insane. But why should he have to make this forum more compatible with some people's desires? I agree with Leo that he is the teacher. Don't like his message? Go elsewhere, no one is stopping you. Or ignore him. I don't even really pay attention to him and I haven't got 3 hours to waste on videos that could be done in a reasonable length of time. But I still get a lot from this place. Leo doesn't even insist on much. He will let you use the forum and post even if you have no interest in his beliefs and ideas. All you have to do is heed the warnings if he is unhappy with your content. Fight him and you will lose. That's how it should be. That's life. He is the authority for this place. Not aiming this at you jbram Perhaps people can ask themselves "why should he?" for every single thing they think he should care about in terms of people's attachments to how this forum should operate?

Thanks for that @SriBhagwanYogi

Thanks. I've seen her on Ted Talks. She's great.

@KMB4222 Makes sense actually. If you are going to let something go, have something ready to take it's place. Perhaps this is similar as to when they say you can drop one addiction but pick up another right away to take it's place. Therefore try to have a "better" behaviour or addiction to hand or we would probably default to one that is similarly dysfunctional (in the long run). I'm cutting & pasting your replies here onto a separate document for me to look at during the week, that's how useful I've found this topic.

@KMB4222 Thanks for that. Totally agree with all you said, especially about being realistic about the degree of letting go that can be achieved. Yes! This is EXACTLY what I thought to myself about 8 months ago shortly after I had a rock bottom and I decided to quit alcohol and drugs that were not prescribed for me. I took time off work sick for about the first time ever and slowly began to rebuild. I surrendered. I admitted defeat. I LET GO (to a degree at least) my old plan, my crazy ways of trying to cope with life. I knew I had to find a different way. I then experienced moments during the day when I thought to myself "Hmmmm, so this is what a bit of peace of mind feels like", and "this is what it feels like not to be walking around in a state of heightened anxiety at almost every waking moment". I actually felt like I'd ingested a tranquiliser without the grogginess. That's how it felt.

Very rare for me to seemingly argue against warmth, empathy, compassion etc. I almost feel uncomfortable doing so. I feel like your post is awesome Joseph from a human perspective. It's just not balanced with the reality of what we are doing on this forum. It's asking Leo to be what he is either not, or is, but cannot be here. Asking black to be white. @Joseph Maynor

Joseph I actually resonate with you a lot more than I do with Leo (generally speaking) - I'd have you as my mentor ahead of him, so keep that in mind here if you can. Just asking some questions here. Devil's advocate. Tyranny of the "shoulds" as Albert Ellis would say, although I think it was Karen Horney originally. I'm as much into practicing and working on my compassion as most, but this is not a place where Leo has to show sympathy for certain things. I think it's unhealthy if people are posting on here with any kind of expectation Leo will come in and dispatch some sympathy. He might do it every now and then, but we can't cling to that. Who is tearing who down? Are people feeling torn down? That's an emotion sending a message. Work on the real reasons for that. Leo is not the reason. Perhaps, I guess that's true other acceptance which a great thing to strive for, but on a teaching forum where the message given is often blunt and to the point. If Leo took everyone as they come nothing would get done here in my opinion. I would imagine most people are here to affect change in themselves (I think?). Would do people expect on here? I want certain people in my life to take me as I come perhaps, but not Leo, let him have his say on me if he chooses. I don't need to accept it, or feel hurt about it. This is not the Samaritans. Leo is not Carl Rogers. This is not a client-centred place. Again, what the real reason for someone feeling dirty, immoral, or stupid on here? Is it Leo that is the reason? You are going to be a life coach, what will you tell your clients if they say Joe Bloggs from down the road made me feel dirty, immoral, or stupid? Would you tell them that Joe Bloggs needs to be more compassionate and tender? Or would you advise your client to move to a place where all is compassionate and tender? Or would you go to work on their belief system? Their thinking habits? Their sensitivities? You would help them grow I am sure. You can't depend on another person for your peace of mind, it's nuts.