Nivsch

Sorry I am not in computer now cant quote in parts. I think that holistic attitude will end the wars eventually and graduately but we dont have that kind of leaders right now. But every country started like this. Established in the account of the nearby countries. BTW arab world is a fucking big house of 1km * 1km compared to homeless Jew. Everyone wants a country of their own. So the jews are lost in your opinion? Cannot never have a country?

Yes, then what choice we have? You say it is racist but the other alternative is far worse. BTW muslims and christians have their own countries. Aren't the jews deserve at least one country to make it by their own values? Its not merely a religion game because I doesnt care so much about the religion as I care about the values. But what can we do when in this case the two things are completely overlap!

No. The arab countries are red blue. Israel is blue orange green similar to US average. You are underestimate the danger here.

But again, without Jew majority our democracy and values will collapse and we will turn into another arab country.

I'm talking on the Jew majority that have to be preserved. Not about the actions that need a change and to be more fair. I agree that practically the actions of the government have to improve with the problematic settlements issue, but again I mean that we must keep the Jew majority (and in a moral way of course. not to harm anyone).

But there is one thing that is healthy and necessary in this nationalism in this tough region. In this area, and I emphasize in THIS area, losing the Jew majority is a very dangerous thing to our values and character of the country that otherwise will be turned into another arab tyranni. So there is a valid reason to this nationalism as a healthy blue to protect our western values and democracy.

But this radical ideology was here in the 1930's with Amin Al husseini. Before Israel. I can agree Israel makes the virus worse, but not that it created it. About the violence and domimation if you mean to the settlements I agree this is a problem and Israel has to fix it, it does has responsibility yes, but this is secondary and not the root. The root is found within the palestinians society itself in my opinion. How can we explain 11.9? The terror in europe?

Yes I understand this is problematic to generalize in such a way, but their education IS. They learn they have to kill Israelis from age 5. Let alone this is a damage to their own mental health and to a chance of any healthy future for them. But how this is ever going to change if they are being controled by a clever virus who uses them in order to survive and does abrobat manipulations to prevent any treatment against him and also make the immune system believe him at the end.

I have learned about this I know this statement. I just don't see it in reality in our society at least the part of society I am surrounded with. I understand that the deep right wing is more prone to that.

I meant people here = In Israel, where I live I don't know anyone in my country thinks he is chosen.

I really don't want to pour cold water but I have never heard anyone that I know here saying he is "chosen" or something like this. 🤷‍♂️ This is probably true only for the deep right-wing here. Also it doesn't get along with the fact that the people established Israel were mostly secular, and with the "startup nation".

+1 ❤ I want to see any other western country deal with a clever virus who kill them and after that don't let them kill him in response, and make the immune system believe him. Thats the most frustrating thing.

Don't lose hope you are needed here I also want that and I think it is possible.

@DocWatts As long as Israel exists it is the occupier and the brutal in your eyes. Thats the root of the argument. I'm done playing this game of symmetry. There is one side wants to deffend itself and other side who slaugther civilians purposely and then connect itself with super glue to civilians to not being killed and Israel hands are bounded. Israel has to do trust building steps and mainly stop settlements expansion and thats it. All the rest - background noise and excuses to justify the root that as long as Israel exists it will be the occupier in your eyes 🙂

Israel exists? Thats enough. Israel is, for them, the occupier of the arab world. That is the root of the argument. Everthing else - excuses and backward rationalisations. I gave up trying to argue with them with logical tools. The prefrontal cortex cannot solve the ancient brain's problems. For that they will have to give up their ego and recognize the validity of Israel's passions and fears too, and above all to recognize the root of the problem of the palestinians - their own self tyranni. To face their problem head on and not to project it onto Israel all the time.

@LSD-Rumi A channel which does an ambush to a mother whos children has kidnapped bringing surprisingly a hamas person to the interview forcing her to say nasty things about her country hoping her fear will make her say this is the lowest thing ever you can expect a tv channel to do. That kind of channel cannot be unbiased.

"Just two sides of the same coin" toxic relativism thinking is tier 1! When thinking how to heal the Gazaian from the cult they are in for decades which leave them misserable with no future (long before this war...), we cannot keep the absurd claim of symmetry between the two sides. No. There is one side who educate his citizens to killing in the aim of killing (not because of Israel. The Palestinians kill and torture each other very well by themselves), and there is another side who doesnt look for wars but its deffense doctrine has failed in oct 7th. This group you linked to is fine. No problem with this but won't solve the problem although its a good thing we want to encourage.

And this toxic extreme relativism ("just two sides of the same coin") end up serving only the less developed and in our case also less healthy side.

They are brutal to their own people too. If it wasn't Israel, they for sure would fight each other all day long. This is their operating system anyway.

+1 ❤

This is naiveness because hamas uses many neighborhoods as fortifications to the day IDF will come. This is absolutely critical for them to survive (along with assimilaing behind civilian purposely) because they know IDF is stronger. If you think some part of that is a collecitve punishment you will have to explain why you think that and then we can discuss if it does make sense. Right because Judaism is not like a physical quality as you say. This is much more than this. Judaism is a common character of a large group of people which expresses their unique values that very significantly goes against the values of the nations surrounding. A Jew majority is critical in order to deffent our country character and values.

I understand, so Israel is the occupier from the very reason it exists. And so every other country in the world which its establishment was on the account of the nearby country which means all countries.

To destroy entire neigborhoods AFTER their citizens were asked to leave 20 times with variety of means no other country in the world did it in the past. Like Isis has disappeared by itself after US left Iraq.

So you are saying that we control any state we have border with, according to your logic.

It depends on to where you take tham. They are meaningful operating systems rooted in valid truths but on the screen show many false images. Secularism is also a religion. If you want to get rid of religion you will have to encourage the people to upgrade it. If you get rid of X religion you will get another new religions built from its fragrances.