Nivsch

@Raze Nazism is a totally another league in another universe I don't agree with those kind of comparisons.

The Right wing policy is indeed very bad and unfair.

Expelling Palestinians from A or B weren't common I don't accept this. They have happened sometimes yes, but you have to understand the context of terror attacks on Israelis that lead to this event. You can't talk about IDF operations in the West Bank without taking into account the security concerns of the Israelis because both are intertwined all the time. With that being said, again, the fair solution is only a Two State solution but the conditions to such solution right now are far from ripe.

The way you generalize some Israeli religious or right wing sectors or the Israeli government onto 'Israel' is also unacceptable to me, but I try to relate to the content and not to attack you personally and make false assumptions about you, because it would not be fair to do. The choice is yours.

@gambler Seems you again extrapolate my messages towards imaginary directions your mind is inventing. If you want to do a discussion without personal attacks you are invited to.

@Raze Yeah our current government is just recently really "burning bridges" in that sense though it wasn't the case regulary. No doubt, this government is the worst both Israelis and Palestinians have suffered under in recent times. If you see the inner cold war inside Israel you will get a clue to the corruption of this government what necessarily radiates also externally.

You really have assumptions and projections on me that I have never said or thought and not even close.

My impression is based on division of the West Bank into Areas A, B, and C. In Area A which is under full Palestinian Authority control Palestinians live with more autonomy and less direct Israeli military presence, although the Israeli army can conduct limited operations targeting terrorists who have murdered Israelis, as was the case after the terror attack in Jaffa a couple of months ago (though I don’t know at this point in which area he lived). Area B is more complicated, with Palestinian civil control but occasional Israeli military presence. This limits full freedom, but still allows for relatively independent daily life in many places, due to the Palestinian civil control, which seems quite logical to me.

Usually when people don't agree they try to comment to the content of the message. Just for you to know.

There is no argument that the situation is distorted and unhealthy and in friction zones, there is an oppressive policy and actions. Nevertheless in most of the West Bank surface area Palestinians still live a decently independent and relatively free lives, though not entirely due to the checkpoints between major areas. Do you think minorities in other neighboring countries do better? Mostly worse. Although this is true that Israel as a democracy is expected to behave better, and that Palestinians deserve a real independent state, but exaggerations won't help advance the discussion anywhere.

@Raze What do you mean by civil society?

But why? They know that by 2029 Trump is out, so it is all quite reversible.

I work in weather forecasting in a meteorology company, and from this year I started helping people with mental health challenges through formal training in LiCBT ACT but in my own way, based on my personal experience, while I also try to guide them towards gradually discovering their own healing paths.

@zazen Israel gets overall (not particulary about the current operation in Gaza but in general) bipartisan support which is way beyond only the Evangelicals. I can agree that both Evangelicals and Smotrich and Ben Gvir voters have those lines of thinking you mentioned. Maybe the more right wing sector in the Likud (Bibi's party) too.

+1 🧡

@Breakingthewall From all that I have heard over 30 years about the relationships between key people in both countries, I find those lobby and utilitarian explanations almost an insult to intelligence, way oversimplified, feeling to me as a bypass stories in some senses and sometimes bordering in conspiracy. I understand this video has affected you and you are right for being outraged from people who watch bombing and so on, but I really can pick up examples of foolish people in every country.

Maybe the US understands something many people don't. Maybe the US knows Israel in a much broader way for decades and sees that small sectors hijacking the country do not truly represent the Israeli public and its values. Values that, on average, are similar to those of America and also diverse within the population in similar way.

Ego backlash isn't just a phenomena happens due to homeostasis (which is true too) but there is a reason which is beyond it. Look closely at the thoughts and fears the ego backlash bring with and work WITH THAT too. There is something here you should face more directly.

"Most of the public understands that this is a criminal government that sacrifices hostages and soldiers and dismantles the country."

Israelis are not zionists. Zionists (in your version of the term) are far right sectors within Israelis that occupy key positions in our current corrupt government. And then you speak about echo chambers. Don't demonize 10M people without you having even 1% of understanding and familiarity with them and I won't continue this discussion any further under this thread.

@zazen It is not that your view isn't valid or not presented in an interesting way, and surely has points, but its about their partiality, not about being true or false. Another example is that Israel's military advantage is not accidental, but rather an overcompensation for its initial disadvantages on the macro scale of the Middle East. What this shows is that having a military advantage over someone does not necessarily mean a more self-confident position than theirs.

@zazen If someone takes now only one city from your country, you will start to develop emotions towards this piece of land and won't be able to compromise with him. You will become ideological just like him to take your city back to your hands, even if he will be satisfied with this one city and won't do any occupation or any oppression on you at all.

@zazen The history does not agree with this simplistic categorization. The Palestinian side commited brutal acts against Jews long before Jews began to have military advantage on them. What is refused to be accepted here is that the Palestinian side can and most likely has ideological roots to this land, just like the Jews have those, and the consistent trial to draw reality like Jews are only the ones who have Biblical aspirations, but Palestinians are just innocent reactors, is going against the commom sense and the nature of conflicts and to some sense human nature in general.

The right-wing sector of the Palestinians, on the second side of the equation, also has an ideology with independent reasons to exist (not dependent on the actions and policies of the second side), except that these pre-existing ideologies do fuel and worsen each other.