Nivsch

Agree that invasion was mostly irrational.

You are talking exactly like the far right people from here talk about Gazans. Equally dellusional stance.

I am partially disagree, but let's assume it was the case, still, you are missing out the micro dimension. Many citizens are in such an experience about themselves personally and it infilterates to the macro collective feeling.

@Leo Gura The thing is that to leave the Jews in 1945 without justice is also unfair.

Do you think Two-State solution isn't a fair one?

Yeah I agree that as long as Netanyahu, Ben Gvir and Smotrich parties are in charge it won't change. I understand. Is there a better alternative? I think it is the best solution that can be. If Israel will give them a bit more areas as a compensation to the areas the settlements has taken, and make more measures to help them feel they also won somehow it can help to cool their hate, but it is hard to find a politician even in the center-left to think of it holistically enough. I believe many Palestinians just want to live their lives and most of them won't be that ideological as they anyway stay in their homes they have for decades in Judea and Samaria.

@Leo Gura I think Israel should exist aside a Palestinian state too. And like me many more think that. Why not both?

Moderates can be above or below progressives. It depends on the depth of their arguments.

Israeli journalist ('Haaretz') Josh Breiner https://x.com/JoshBreiner?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1Cha8mHSwS/

@Karmadhi It is a big problem of corruption within the system which worsens after trauma. What America did after 9/11 wasn't better. I see it as a combination of feeling superior above citizens of the so called enemy country, along with fear, rage and desire for vengeance. It is important to remember that in both Israeli and American societies only a very small number of people are actualy capable of torturing others. See for example Guatanamo prison: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp

A post from 2024, written during one of the weekly demonstrations that gathered tens of thousands of citizens every Saturday evening, calling for a hostage deal which eventually took place last week and brought the war to an end. " Everyone’s talking about division and hate — so here are a few words about solidarity, or how I can’t stop being moved by this nation: I was among those injured in the car-ramming attack at the protest on Saturday night. I was very lucky — I came out with bruises but no fractures. Near me on the road lay two women; one of them was bleeding from her head, moderately injured, and is still hospitalized. From the moment this madness happened, I was surrounded by a large group of strangers and volunteers. They insisted on accompanying me to the hospital (Tamar and Yotam, two wonderful people whose last names I don’t even know, stayed with me there until the late hours). In the photo — Dafna Greener, from the volunteer network. It turns out there’s a volunteer system of social workers, psychologists, and doctors who accompany every injured person at a protest. Dafna didn’t leave my side for a moment — she made sure I drank and ate, talked with me about what had happened with a smile, and above all, was there for me. She left her family and refused my pleas to go back home: “I’m here with you,” she said. When I took a taxi at two in the morning, we said goodbye. So yes — from this sad evening, I come out stronger. With people like this, we’ll recover and overcome. Hope is 2000 years old — a few more months are nothing for her. 🇮🇱❤️ #Hope " https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1EuEU5LAgZ/

Ultra Orthodox party: United Torah Judaism 7 mandates out of 120 = 6% of the population. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Torah_Judaism Spiral Dynamics: 🔵

Thank you. The beginning of healing. Edit: Not meant to underestimate the suffering of the other side that is harder than ours.

🥰 In your time! Feel free to ask and to make claims, reservations to posts if you have and whatever you want.

@Raze This isn't true Raze. I have been following those parties closely for more than 10 years on a daily basis. This isn't just verbal games. Those parties represent sectors whose values are fundmentally different from one another. I know I can't convince you or anyone else to think as I think, and you really don't have to. You will always think what you think and this is perfectly fine. The only thing I can control is what I choose to share. I want to suggest you to do your own research but consider to include direct Israeli sources and not only things you hear about Israel from filters. Read tweets and posts written by Israelis themselves. After that, really, think whatever you want. You are welcome to read everything I will add to here and to ask for sources you want me to add too.

🙌 💛

Supremacy bias affects half of Israelis which I already acknowledged. Do you think Americans see their people's lives as equally important to the lives of the people in Afganistan? Fear of terror also distorts human view of values of lives of the stranger especially after major terror attacks. This isn't truth based but an extrapolation the survival brain does. And welcome back by the way.

What a disrespect. The only way to heal after trauma of genocide is to establish your country by your own way and own choice of location. This is how every respectful nation does. No one would agree to a suggested random artificial meaningless piece of land from stranger's generosity of heart especially after what happened.

So if you speak on mechanics (not on severity) of this mind-phenomena that lead to seeing the other side as sub-human then I can agree with this and acknowledge it is a problem of stage Blue in Israel among all people who are bought into this supremacy point of view, which is rougly half of our society.

But the real nazism of 1939-1945 was so much more than domination and supremacy as you know too and this is why it is so difficult for me with the comparison.

Ok fair and understood. Can we acknowledge both events wrong and injustice, but without comparing two different events with such logarithmic difference in severity between them, so that justice can be made for both of them epistemically?

Leo, my parents town Reut where I lived most of the time is only 5 minutes from the official 67' line. But still, I didn't know almost anything about wrong things being done in the West Bank by soldiers or settlers. I knew only peace processes in elementary school, and Intifada 2nd and terror in middle school, and IDF operations against terror in Palestinians territories. The complexity of the dynamics in this area is known to me (almost) only from two years ago when I was 36 year old and started to research due to you and the forum. We are in a bubble here Leo. West bank and even Gaza is like ABROAD to Israelis and for us we are fighting with terror and thats it. Very few Israelis are being exposed to problematic actions part of the soldiers are doing. This is like American looking on Iraq. The fact that Israel is physically small (in the eyes of Americans of course) doesn't say sh*t. If Israelis are parallel to Nazis, so do Europeans when their governments killed thousand of civilians in Mosul and so do Americans when their government were in the rest of Iraq and in Afganistan. I think this is utterly wrong. None of them, including Israel, are such.

I suggest an another kind of ducomentary that really listen and interviews normal people and not showing ONLY crazy violent groups as those instagram and youtubers so enjoy to do: 95% of Youtube is demonization. This is what the brain loves to do the most. And don't get me wrong I don't agree at all with their way and ideology, but most of them are surprisingly people. Maybe like Evangelicals but still people and not monsters.

https://x.com/costa1black/status/1790450603589595190 (From May 2024) Edit: I don't agree with History as "fictional" he went too far there but with everything else I do.