Nivsch

@Breakingthewall Don't get me wrong our current hellish government (to Israelis, to the hostages, to Palestinians, to everyone) is the last one I would want to defend. I seperate the two issues.

The Zionist reason is first and foremost to secure Jews in their own home when every other religion can co exist with them according to the declaration of independence. Other streams will though emphasize the biblical compenent more. Depend on the sub group. Don't believe youtube channels full of agenda so fast (I am kidding it isnt personal I am not saying you do).

Because the reality is very complex as Jews were themselves after a far worse trauma that I think didn't left them much of a choice but to come to this land. So there is a dynamic here and not one side who is to blame. Ben Gurion said a lot of different things too. After all he is the first prime minister. If he thought he is only wrong he wouldn't bother to establish Israel.

No no. "Zionist" for them has a totally different meaning with values of Co-existance. I know cause I learned this term in school. This is why this word is misleading because you and them interpret and mean it very differently.

No I don't answer if you push this word Zionists again. Use your own words and than we can talk. I am tired because in Israel it is 1:28 AM so I will wish you good night 🌔🌿

But also the occupation has worsened a lot because the terror has worsened. 50% Of Israelis wanted Two State solution before the Palestinians decided to ruin this too.

Most people aren't knowledgable in this issue and think in terms of security and thats it. As well as me before this war. You also can't expect caring from people who suffer 30 years of terror attacks coming from your side's extremists. In this reality, the Liberal values will naturally be invested in other topics like LGBTQ, Veganism, Women rights etc. This is natural and understandable. Your side has gained the distrust Israelis feel towards you.

Don't wonder later when Israelis put all Palestinians in one box. Look how language distorts the mind. They aren't "liberal zionists" they are just Israeli normal people, like normal American people and like normal Spanish people. They aren't any less Liberal than Liberal Americans or Liberal French. Reality can't be seen clearly with those words.

As long as 100 hostages are inside hamas tunnels I think Israelis emotions will be invested mostly in them, what is understandable to my opinion.

In Nov 2026 (but most likely before) they will replaced. Need to hold tight. There were a bunch of conditions that came together that made this extreme government possible. The Liberal sector and Netanyahu's sector were equal in power for 4 different election rounds until the 5th in 2022 when Netanyahu's sector won with the help of couple of coincidents by the way.

I agree they are smart. Israel is an extremely polarized country. The foreign Youtube media displays only the right wing-messianic-bibist side. Look at this article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israeli_judicial_reform Demonstrates the value systems war inside Israel during the recent two years (but happens for many years even before).

Or fight inside and don't let idiots to determine your country character, what many citizens do these days against all this goverment's actions against the democracy and the courte.

Former Prime Minister Olmert: Netanyahu doesn't want the hostages back because he wants to preserve his coalition and to settle in Gaza. The war should have ended in January (a year ago).

Only 12% of Israelis want annexation and settling in Gaza. https://www.inss.org.il/he/publication/survey-december-2024/

68% equate 'victory' with hostages returning.

What do you want from him? Say this to Likud and Otsma Yehudit (Jewish Strength) parties.

Many israelis are pretty scared of Palestinians (not of Israeli Arabs though) in that phase and I can't blame them. The mind tends to generalize. Just at the same way you yourself do with Israelis.

Things I can only listen to when 🚘🌲

What section? Can you focus me to the rellevant part? This video is 3 hours long.

Wait a minute. Chat GPT now says similar thing to what I said yesterday. Edit: the Chat answers change a bit each time I ask him, so take it carefully. Is wikipedia the most reliable source? The "Optimistic" Chat's version: 1. Gaza War 2023-2024: During the ongoing Gaza conflict (Operation "Shield and Arrow" and subsequent fighting), estimates indicate around 20,000–25,000 Palestinian casualties, with 7,000–9,000 being militants (Hamas and other terrorist groups). Civilian to militant casualty ratio is estimated at 2:1 to 3:1 (for every militant killed, 2–3 civilians die). 2. Iraq War 2003-2011: In the Iraq War (2003-2011), over 100,000 Iraqis were killed, with 60% of them being civilians. Militants included fighters from Saddam Hussein’s regime, Al-Qaeda, and insurgents. Civilian to militant ratio was between 3:1 to 5:1, meaning for every militant killed, 3–5 civilians died. 3. Afghanistan War 2001-2021: In Afghanistan, more than 47,000 civilians were killed, with the total death toll around 60,000–70,000. The remaining casualties were mostly Taliban militants and foreign troops. Civilian to militant ratio was between 5:1 to 7:1. Summary: Gaza War 2023-2024: Civilian to militant ratio of 2:1 to 3:1. Iraq and Afghanistan Wars: Civilian to militant ratio was higher, ranging from 3:1 to 7:1. In the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, civilians were disproportionately affected due to urban warfare, airstrikes, and prolonged conflict.

@Raze Ok it is my mistake here. I have read it in the past but probably it wasn't an organized source but an opinion. I was sure this is the case. Maybe because of the absolute civilian casualties that was higher in those wars in comparison to Gaza but the ratios were indeed similar in all those wars, so Israel wasn't better in that sense.

Jews came here from many countries and in many different times. 188K Christians and 1.7M Muslims live here freely aside the Jews in almost every Israeli city.