Nivsch

The article in hebrew (you will need to translate the page)

No. Primarily because they support Israel and thats it. Common ground, common values.

"A right winger must first be a passionate leftist before he can have a decent amount of system thinking". An another misconception.

A misinterpretation of the model can easily distance us from others and make us stop listening to them, as we may believe we already know where they are on the map. However this is an oversimplification. Here are a few examples. 1. "A Blue person (center of gravity) must first become 'fully materialistic and secular' (a narrow wrong view of Orange) before they can become really Green." 2. "A new Green person must first be 'fully pacifist' (a narrow wrong view of Green) before they can become Yellow." These statements are completely wrong because they cherry-pick only one characteristic of a given stage out of many others, and interpret it as the condition for transitioning to the next stage. This is a conflation of content with neural cross-contents processes. You may say "But Yellow listens to every view" but you can't truly listen if you engage with these mistakes. The truth is that a blue person can develop through many other different contents and areas through which is perhaps already conquered parts of those stages you can't know about. In addition, one can be Yellow and understand the limits of Pacifism without even never be a fully pacifist himself. Connecting the dots does not always require stepping on each dot seperately with you own legs. This means, be humble and recognize that people are capable of developing more fluidly than it may seem, which will allow you to genuinely listen to and understand their point of view, not from a place of superiority or inferiority.

Tel Aviv I think it is. And it is the biggest city in Israel.

I appreciate the valid points raised in the post about our government's propaganda strategies, historical problems surrounding the country establishment, the urgent need to halt settlements expansion and the fact Jews aren't inherently special. However I strongly disagree with characterizing, even if implicitly and subconsciously only, the mentality of Ethnic Cleansing as were the core or the most foundational aspect of Israeli collective mentality. I will explain my perspective from my 37 years of experience here. I want it to be high quality and to bring an added value, so I will tell about myself and my close circles mainly to share my first hand direct experience. When I was 4 year old I reside in Reut, a town in central Israel established for career soldiers, primarily from the Air Force. My father is a retired non-combatant officer from the Air Force. In my circle of my family, friends and school for 12 years of official education, the conversations though obviously were 95% on personal issues, but when came to politics, they were mainly about the need to co-exist and the tough situation of us Israelis in a reality of regular terror attacks. My school education focused on several key themes: 1. The establishments of Israel and its wars. 2. Peace efforts with Syria and Lebanon post-Egypt and Jordan agreements. 3. The reality of terror attacks when we really talked in a sadly manner in the class after each one. 4. The assassination of Prime Minister Itzhak Rabin and his commitment to peace. 5. Experiences during the Second Intifada and our resilience in the face of terror. 6. Co-exiatance with Arabs citizens and other minorities. 7. Mutual respect to all individuals regardless of differences. The desire to take more land at the expense of the Palestinians was never mentioned in any of my circles and surroundings during all of my childhood, adolescent and even not in my military education, courses, and service in my base, be surprised. Worth mentioning again, my town wasn't a "hippy" one at all, but an Air Force project with IDF career soldiers all over the town. This kind of desire was a thing I have heard only firstly on TV when a religious right winger person brought on air. Even the mainstream channels and even today after Oct7th rarely express this desire, and talk almost only about the hostages, the war, the distrust on Netanyahu, the need for reasonable strategic to long term solutions to the 'day after' the war. There is only one channel, out of four, that is 'devoted' to Right wing ideas which is realtively new and I am less familiar with. Even through the last decade when I participate in discussions of the centrist Lapid's political party activists "There Is A Future" (Yesh Atid in Hebrew) the desire to take Palestinians land wasn't mentioned there at all. To be honest, although my education system was defined as the public and official one, I can't know what exactly kids in Jerusalem or Be'er Sheva have learned and if the nuances were different or not. And yes, in bigger groups online conversations with Right wingers as well, the vibe from them is often different than what I used to. What I want to emphasize though, is that my experience has taught me that there is no singular line of thinking, such as ethnic cleansing, that dominates Israeli mentality. Rather, it depends on which sector holds which position, and those sectors are always in conflict and often contradict each other.

Yeah in the media the conflict is definitely streched enormousely. The problem has to be acknowleged but fairly without streches. Most likely that Palestinians in west bank are 95%+ of them living without any conflicts with IDF and have decent freedom to live their lives. It is important to acknowledge this as well.

I disagree with plenty of those as an "indicators" to tier 2.

Many more people suffer from withdrawal symptoms for years disguised as their "organic conditions".

For example, a religious person at stage Orange can start trying to be the most expert in the holy book teaching and to understand things better than his friends. Or Another example, at stage Orange he can try to answer more rationally and less emotionally when faced with a question like "Why did God say this and not that?" and no longer accept traditional answers like anger, right and wrong, etc. Instead, he tries to understand why one way is considered wrong and another way is considered right.

But he isn't blue then.

That is because of Trump? I admit I am less familiar with the process lead to those agreements.

How did he help Israel between 2016-2020?

🙏

No doubt at all there is a psychological component to the anti-Israel motives that is far many miles beyond the logical outcomes of this or that war. This is crystal clear.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DBeN6MFOhvf/?igsh=dWozeWxtNHUyaWlr

The root of the problem is that we misleadingly think we as a modern species have outgrown Nature. From that, we can see the exact pattern of thinking in other areas as well, such as our approach to long term health or mental health and the way we try to treat these issues, mostly the wrong way.

Mohammad Zoabi, a Muslim Arab Israeli guy who became an activist in this topic and have an advantage of seeing the conflict from both sides eyes, what puts him in a special place from where he can synergize both views to make his own special and synthesized, and at the same time caring for each side seperately, perspective. The first post is from today.

Ok but you connected very tightly the animal issue to all of this, so if it fails in this issue I think it is limited in the broader picture too. I disagree with the indifference about outcome and with the solipsism, I would think about Turquoise in a different way, but hey, each one and his view. The Love thing resonates with me much more.

I think the animal industry is sick and cannot be otherwise, no matter from what stage one look at it. But the added value the stages above green provide in this topic is that there is a room for debating about eating meat in certain conditions, for example if you consume it in a pasture rised form when the animal lived respectufully almost all of his life (until got killed) although the killing in the end is too debatable and it is complicated. In this way we like immitate nature as much as possible. Has the person who eats meat found out that meat is essential for him to feel better? For many people it is true, so there is no judgment here and for them to try to eat as pasture rised as possible is a good strategy.

I disagree with these conclusions and with categorizing them as "Turquoise".

I won't shed a tear if far Rights are out of here.

I don't buy this theory at all. hamas, similar to Hezbollah have both, leaded by Iran's regime, planned an oct7 style attack. What bothers them is the mere existence of a different ethnically defined state in their region. Stage Red gains its life meaning and motivation from its expansionist desires. They don't need an oppression to want that and I would even think those Red extremists are the least sensitive to oppressions forced on them, because their whole life motivation isn't so much about liberty or good conditions but about running forward to more domination. Ask the Far Right wingers of Israel and they will say to you the same thing. Oppression can get the terror of oct7 to be more severe only to some degree than it could be, but it isn't the root cause of it.

@Etherial Cat I agree with your stance about the Israeli governemnt and its ignorant way it manages the conflict in the big picture especially in West Bank areas. I would be careful with such equatings since intentions, circumstances, conditions and enemy clever strategics are parameters that have to not be overlooked. This government behaved in severe ways for sure, but this isn't as severe as the thing that brought it to do so in the first place if we take all the parameters above into account.