Nivsch

Personally I feel we cannot give up the hostages but we also cannot give up our goal to eliminate hamas. without winning in this war, Israelis will stop feel secure in their country and will stop believe psychologically in their country in a very deep sense which is not less severe than the hostages problem. Both goals have to be achieved somehow.

Israel thinks that this drips of realising captives a little bit every time, is aiming to steal time and prevent Israel from getting its soldiers into gaza strip. A psychological torture hamas is trying to do.

@zazen Actually in all the former operations israel was quite surgical. This time is broader but it doesnt mean its not selective to hamas building (and not just every empty building).

@Breakingthewall Do you have a better alternative to how to eliminate hamas? I am asking seriously. Not to argue.

@zazen Israel asked them to evacuade to the south where there they HAVE water. And until then they can definitly buy along the way. Dont be so black and white. Its a complex thing you are not in a well organized temple of moral right now this is not realistic. Dont judge israel so fast without learning its strategy.

I don't believe bibi would do such a deliberate thing like that. He is capable of many things but this sounds too far. But he indeed has an interest to keep hamas strong so he did it indirectly.

It depends on the person in charge. For bibi thats maybe true. But he is not the only one who decide now because during the war the cabinet is the responsible and all its members have the same power.

Ok i understand. So maybe it is somehow selective to buildings that serves hamas directly or indirectly. Maybe. I hope. I dont know. What i do know is that the air strikes this time are far more broad than in any operation israel did in the past and part of that is to neutralize hamas's traps he putted all over gaza.

@Breakingthewall Yes this is literally about changing the landscape of gaza. So now they left to the south. Where all those civilians will live? Good question. I think the international community will have to be responsible for them too from now on if they are so important to them. Israel doesnt want to be their babysitter anymore.

@zazen Israel is destroying buildings (with NO civilians who were asked to leave) to neutralize the maze of horror hamas built to the day israeli soldiers will get there. Its a land of traps hamas built.

@zazen I want to show you an another perspective to consider: The six-days war as a self defense operation: https://israelforever.org/interact/blog/international_right_self_defense_six_day_war/ See how bigger the enemies army is in comparison to Israel, which made an existential threat on israel in yom kippur war.

@lina send me a link to where bibi says he target civilians and than we can talk.

I saw it now. There is problems with the settlements in the west bank and I have a lot of criticism on the right-wing actions. Still, the person in this video is highly biased. I lost him after he said "This even more severe than what hamas did" and "Israel is deliberately target civilans" which is a 100% biased low quality unnuanced crap.

@Leo Gura Hamas has to be destroyed but with minimal damage to innocents and I want to believe Israel do its best.

@lina This is a very complex situation. Israel must put pressure on hamas to return the captives. Yes, there is a cost to that in humen lives in gaza but look how hard the situation is. Also think about how hamas is brutal to gaza's civilians in day to day life and the poverty they live in anyway because of hamas. In order to the long term to be better even for gaza's civilians, they are costs to pay in the short run.

Hamas installed traps all over gaza to wait for israeli soldiers. without destroying buildings, hundreds of Israeli soldiers will die for nothing. Remind you that there are NO civilians in those buildings after IDF asked them to live. Please take this perspective also into accout and don't be so biased.

@lina The process of Israel establishment wasn't at all "A massacre Israel did" but a complicated dynamic which in both sides did things one to another that ended up in Israel establishment. Without force, Israel couldn't exist at all given the language our neigborhood understands.

@lina I'm sorry for what you are feeling and I think that as long as hamas control gaza, the civilians there will keep suffering from hamas directly and from the consequences of his actions. I hope that after hamas will be eliminated during the next few months, gaza civilians will get another leadership which is relatively moderate like the palestinian authority in the west bank or maybe even better the egyptian leadership, or a combination of both.

Hamas has trapped so many roads and buildings in gaza to become his fortrees in case that Israel will try to go there. Without heavily destroying them from the air first, Israel will lost a huge amount of soldiers lives for nothing.

@Karmadhi Please see also what Lila wrote. Israel actually takes care and hospitalized the terrorists it catches including from the last event! Also they have great condition in the prison they can even get a degree. Many israelis complain that Israel is TOO humanic to them. This is an extremely common conversation here. Yes this is true that the occupation of the west bank and the friction with the palestines IS corrupting. But please be nuanced. Israel is much much more complicated than you think.

@Karmadhi Israel actually warn civilians and tell them to evacuade, but hamas stress them to not evacuade. Hamas wants them to be its own human sheild so when they will die, hamas will use this to show it to the world. This is how toxic hamas is and this is who we are dealing with. Unfortunately in this situation its impossible to not harm anybody who is innocent but I agree we have to do the maximum effort to fight selectively as we can, but in the other hand Israel doesnt have the privilage to not deactivate this organization. After this trauma, without deep response from Israel and without a real game change in the region, Psychological changes in Israelis minds and the nations around us might put a serious danger to Israel chances to still exist. Now this is really a no choice war.

This is really only the far right wing here who wants that.

@Ajay0 This is not how it works in my opinion. Actually Saudi Arabia will (even subconsciously) respect Israel much more if Israel will fight hamas seriously this time. Part of the reason the Israeli-Saudi relationships are warming up is BECAUSE Saudi sees Israel as a strong enough player who can restrain Iran desire for power which is a big threat for Saudi Arabia too.

But they treat their own people very similarly! Their mentality / value system is, in my opinion, the main factor.

Agree. The current government we have is a hugh problem.