VeganAwake

It can't be grasped because it's not stable or permanent. The so-called grasping is realizing its ungraspable.

Maybe check out some of the essays from Robert Wolfe's AjataSunyata Project.... ❤

It can be described infinite different ways. But notice it's always just what's happening ....which is unknowable. Anything describing it is just a perspective and is impossible to validate....and who or what could validate it anyways?

What seems to be happening is neither right or wrong. It's just simply what seems to be happening! ❤

A nonrealization or nonexperience Nothingness ❤

And if there is no real witness is it still considered a real happening? ❤

Nothing behind the apparent witnessing and experiencing. ?

Maybe there are bodies that experience sensations like sight sound smell touch taste...... and that's it. But no one or no higher source actually experiencing it? ❤

Yeah totally, the biggest problem for the sense of self/ego is death but it's not even a real entity ? That's why religion, spirituality or anything promising eternal life are so appealing to it. Hopeless freedom. ❤

Yep nothing is hidden or missing, it only seems to be ....everything is already front and center. It appears hidden by already being everything ❤

Maybe the apparent issue is the belief that one state is better or more spiritual than another?

The ego is an illusory identification as this or that.....it's already not real! ❤

The sense of self's biggest problem is death. So it tries to adopt any story where it can believe it will continue on existing infinitely. Similarly to religion. The shocking and sometimes terrifying realization is that it's already not real. It's already not alive.... it's an illusion of self that wants to continue living. ? ❤

❤

Right there aren't two individuals in disagreement, the apparent disagreement is within the statements stated....GET IT! Good luck with your belief about what enlightenment is and entails. ❤

Yes it would be a misunderstanding because there already isn't a "yourself" to be or not be something. ❤

Creation seems to be like a runaway train. And there doesn't appear to be a real conscious creator doing that or even witnessing it for that matter. ❤

It seems to be a phenomenon of a body becoming self-aware. Was there consciousness prior to birth? Is there consciousness in deep sleep or anesthesia? ❤

The body isn't an illusion, the sense of self that would feel upset if someone called you an idiot is the illusion.

The body is just a body. The sense of self is what claims the body to be its self.... it's the identification as the body and the thinker of thoughts. And the kicker is it's not real, it's an illusion of self. The body actually has nothing inside of it.... it's empty of a real person. ❤

? ? ? ?

Yeah pretty wild and funny huh ❤

It just sounds like you're making up things to disagree on at this point. I did not say that apparent different experiences don't seem to occur for apparent others. I was simply saying if there seems to be an attachment to the story of being nobody then that clearly wouldn't be liberation. Liberation is the end of the attachment as being this or that because it's recognized there is no one there in which could be attached in the first place. I think we got off into the weeds a little bit. Thanks for sharing your experience. ❤

❤