VeganAwake

Yeah, I also like "real and unreal" There seems to be an apparent difference between thought and the absence of thought. A thought for example can seem to create a reaction or experience within the body. But a thought that's not identified with or entertained just seems to arise and then fall away without causing any reaction similar to absence of thought. So was there even a real happening? It was real & unreal!! ❤

Yay we've established that thoughts definitely seem to arise from somewhere..... We are really getting somewhere now ?

The reason I call it a recognition is because it's not like a disidentification or denial. It's sort of like hearing that santa claus isn't real when your young and then actully seeing your parents putting the presents under the christmas tree....the fantasy is OVER and it's simultaneously realized it was never real from the start. When it's clearly recognized that the You/ego/sense of self (whatever you want to call it) isn't real.....the belief in it starts falling away pretty quick and simultaneously it's obvious that it was never real from the start....it was an illusion of self. If it's like anything, I would describe it as a web or bundle of memories, thoughts, ideas, beliefs, concepts, biases.... basically the entire centered sense of individuality is shattered or realized to have never been. ❤

The YOU that wants to experience no self already isn't real. It's so easy that it's already the case and seems hidden. ❤

I don't know why this seems so tough to understand. The very individual or sense of self that is trying to have a no self experience IS the illusion itself. What more needs to be said?

Well there definitely seems to be a source but it's literally coming from nowhere & going nowhere. Its not that the bodies typing and responding to messages is an illusion......the illusion is the experience that real separate individuals are communicating from within those bodies. The bodies are empty.... there's no one actually in there or anywhere for that matter. ❤

There is no source....the source is an illusion. ❤

Yep, and something that's not real from the start can't be known because there's nothing & no one real to know about it. ❤

When it's clearly recognized that ME is an illusion, there isn't anyone left with an agenda to go on attempting to realize its true nature. It's clearly seen that the very entity that attempts to GO ON & ON & ON is totally unreal. That's why liberation is referred to as "the end of seeking" If there is still any attempt whatsoever to identify as THIS or THAT then the illusion was not clearly seen through. This apparent situation is often referred to as SPIRITUAL EGO or SUPER EGO. It's a very sneaky last ditch effort of the ego/sense of self to preserve its illusory existence. Some clever illusion huh ? ❤

Yep, There are no right or wrong paths because right and wrong are concepts within the dream story of an illusory individual where meaning, purpose & value are its prison walls.

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That's not what enlightenment is. Enlightenment is the revelation that the individual that thinks it's alive and will one day die is completely unreal The body will surely wear out & die but the illusory sense of self does not die because it's not alive in the first place...it's an illusion. ❤

I know what you mean ❤ you were a listening ear for me so I try and pay it forward. During the apparent enlightenment experience here, there was an attempt by the sense of self or ego which had been recognized to be unreal to start identifying as a higher self or as God or as everything. But this ego's game of identification had already been seen through. It literally couldn't reidentify as this or that because it was so clearly recognized to be unreal from the start. It's freedom but not for someone or something. ❤

There just isn't a self already. From the perspective of an unawakened individual, an enlightened individual will still seem to be a conditioned character riddled with all sorts of concepts about reality because that's what is being experienced by the unawakened individual.....(mirror effect). The internal experience of separation gives rise to the external experience of separation... (I am here in this body and everyone else is out there in those bodies)... both of which are unreal. It's just too radical and simultaneously obvious when it's recognized. And the weirdest part is it's not an experience or a happening. It's the end of something that never actually started but only seemed to. ❤

That's not a fact.... it actually reveals how tricky or sneaky the illusion of self actually is. That which proclaims "I exist" or "I do not exist" stem from the very same illusion of self. There isn't a real you to identify or disidentify in the first place.... (that's the cosmic joke) There isn't a higher self or lower self, that's literally what not two or non-duality is pointing to. It's just been heavily misunderstood because the illusory self centered energy seems so real. It can't conceive of its own unreality... the illusion of self will always try to identify as at least something. ❤

Yeah, I think a lot of it had to do with the language barrier and misunderstanding what he was trying to point to. The apparent issue is there are hundreds of concepts on this forum about what enlightenment is or isn't like and none of them are actually it because enlightenment is literally the end of conceptual personalized experience. Osho once said something along the lines of "having to force-feed someone a spoonful of sugar for them to understand what it really taste like". That kind of force-feeding obviously doesn't work too well with the regulations in place on this forum. ❤

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Sure bud ?

Enlightenment is the realization that the very individual attempting to reach, achieve or maintain it....isn't real. In other words it's wholeness recognizing the experience of separation wasn't valid. ❤

The "I am" that believes itself to be God isn't real and neither are it's beliefs. Illusory beliefs stemming from an illusory individual. ❤

That statement is pointing more towards how the experience of being a separate individual creates a self centered dream like or illusion like reality where everything becomes blanketed with meaning, purpose and value and always has something to do with the "ME". ❤

This is literally the definition of the dualistic dream story of separation. No one wakes up because no one was actually asleep....it was an illusion of self believing it needed to follow a spiritual path of detachment in order to wake up. It's so obvious that it seems hidden! ❤

@Nadosa That sounds like some very honest inquiry. It can really seem and feel like quite the mind f***. Sometimes it will just unfold at its own pace. ❤

If the body is imaginary try running full sprint into a brick wall while thinking about doing your 2021 tax return. I think it might be discovered it's a little bit more than just a mental hold or attachment. Enlightenment has nothing to do with detachment. Its the revelation there never was a real "YOU" attached & in which could become detached.... it throws the baby out with the bathwater sort of speak. ❤

@PepperBlossoms yeah it's kind of difficult to explain... there is apparent time, like being late for a job or an appointment or missing a train or bus. Basically the experience of being a separate individual creates a story which feels like an individual is actually learning and advancing or moving through time. Past memories and experiences and future thoughts and projections shape the reality the illusory individual seems to experience in the immediacy. These conditioned experiences and projections are like an overlay placed over top of reality making it seem like a very important meaningful something instead of an ordinary empty nothing (the dream story). ❤