Jkris

@Ibn Sina Osho says it is not an experience and so says winterknight so says the scriptures. The practice of Neti Neti and Self Enquiry is based on this. If it is an experience they would have said it is an experience. No matter one try to understand with mind one cannot. All books read heard elaborate writings are just pointers and need to discarded. Dont cling to the pointers. So discard them and start your practice. There is nothing to read,hear or understand anymore from anybody except the doubts difficulties in the path one may have. Leo too emphasizes the same dont try to understand what Self or awareness is with your mind.Leo too is emphasizing the practice.Nothing more. What ever practice one may do finally one will have to come to self enquiry - The direct path.

@Ibn Sina https://o-meditation.com/2011/03/17/enlightenment-is-not-an-experience-osho/ Read it carefully what osho says Winterknight is straight doesnt talk juicy artistic poetic like osho or many others which will just make the seekers caught in the spiritual labyrinth. Doesnt verbalize or conceptualize that which cannot be said. He is not talking about mystical experiences and is not even bothered to talk about them.That is Self Enquiry. All he is saying do self enquiry and realize it for yourself.Have psychoanalysis that is helpful as well for purification. He doesnt add to confusion by sharing his personal experiences etc. But winterknights no nonsense approach is not convincing you - you are free to choose like whom ever you prefer.

@fryingLotus First usage but not a break through ??? - what was your dosage ? Why you feel its not a breakthrough ? Though your narrative says you experienced No-self,oneness,bliss ? How many milli grams for 30 dollars or how many trips one can go with that ?

@winterknight 1.Self Enquiry 2.Witnessing Whats the difference between the two ? Whats the significance of self enquiry over witnessing ? 3.Why insights happen very rarely ? -------------------------------- Do Japa,breath watching,kundalini meditations etc really has any significant meaning purpose benefits ? -------------------------------- @Aakash Aakash some bug your name keeps comming.

@Aakash Dear Aakash ??? everything is allready said.Leo is not saying anything new. Let us not get in to the debate of Advaita vs Bhuddism. Sat Chit Ananda - Existence conciousness Infinity. Anbe Shivam - Shiva is Love. Aegan - Anegan - one as well as everything. The creator is not seperate from creation. Wisdom says I am Nothing Love says I am everything - between this life moves - Nisargadatta Maharaj. Leo is contemplating from Savikalpa Samadhi - Thats where 5 Meo takes one - I dont have 5 meo exp but infered from Leos words. But not sure if it takes one to Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Nirvikalpa Samadhi is where one is completely absorbed as Self - one is not aware of the body,mind,world no thoughts. Except in Nirvikalpa Samadhi enlightened beings are aware of the body as mind functions. Only after mind appears body appears world appears then comes the idea of form,formlessness,oneness,creation blah blah. Is there any creation,creator beyond body mind ? Self alone is real rest are not real not permanant dont have any existence on its own with out the self. By direct experience there can be only experience mind can have at any point of time. Conciousness or Awareness is not aware of anything other than itself.It is not perceiving anything. Mind is knowing the world through the senses because of the Absolute(conciousness,Awareness). When mind drops in to its source the Absolute Self reveals itself. Self doesnt become suddenly aware of itself.Because there is only one Infinite. Self cannot become aware or realize itself every time for Aakash,Jkris,some x,y,z every time. Self is beyond the concept of Non duality,Duality. Thats the stand point from which Ramana Maharishi,Aadi Shankara,Guadapada speaks on Advaitha. Buddha didnt say anything about self - Silence because it cannot be said. May be the annata conclusion was a wrong interpretation of silence by then disciples of Buddha. Stop this comparison of wisdom of masters. There are several Non dual traditional books go through them you will get from which stand point the masters say. ???

@winterknight ???will go to Nimhans (Bangalore) to find best psycoanalysis theraphist.Current place where I live (Salem - Tamilnadu) there are no such theraphists. Heard hypnotheraphy is also effective for de-addiction. Will share how it goes. ???

@Aakash Dear Akash thank you for your valuable inputs.Will go through the 12 steps de addiction as well. I will just share my current limited level of understanding. why addiction is impossible to treat with counselling that it will cause heart attack,stroke,paralysis,cancer is addiction is beyond the realm of reasoning. I dont like smoking i dont find it pleasurable I am just finding relief from the craving a temporary relief.once the blood nictotine level reduces the need to maintain that level causes craving and the cycle repeats. To transcend something one need be concious of that to have a thorough concious understanding direct knowledge of what it is in direct experience. Craving has become an habit.Craving-Release of craving.It is a repetative habit. So to overcome addiction first i need to have a genuine intention to quit smoking. Concious understanding that by indulging one can never quit smoking or transcend addiction. I need to be mindful what actually is craving see what is craving.Shouldnt try to escape from craving but face it feel it.How it convinces the mind to yield and take the cigarette. but at the same time not to give in to the urge and indulge in smoking. How craving develops how craving diminishes or vanishes. Even after few days if success I shouldnt fall for the just one cigarette trap. Possible Withdrawal symptoms - impatience,irritation,tension,stress,mood imbalances,sweating,dehydration,headache. So buprion (buproprion) anti depressant might be of some help in easing. This is the plan I am having + cold water. -------------------------------- let us hear from Winterknight's wisdom from physchology point of view as well as self enquiry,meditation point of view as well. Still wondering why great saints like Nisargadatta Maharaj,Yogi Ram Surat baba - enlightened masters experts of self enquiry,meditation etc didnt quit smoking just like that ??? Obviously they must have mastered transcended their 5 senses - Freedom from Sense pleasures(sense suffering ???) Shun sense pleasures like poison - Ashtavakra ??? @winterknight ???

@winterknight I am addicted to smoking.Now want to quit smoking. I guess there is no proper treatment cure for addiction - the crave - the urge which is psycho-somtic. I have to decided to quit abruptly - cold turkey.As I dont believe in gradual reduction,Nicotine patches etc Taking lot of cold water might help. Guess it will take lot of effort mindfully observing witnessing the craving or the opposite focus the attention on craving conciously continously the craving inner resistance impatience temptation building. Continously alert for few months till it never appears. Please advice what is the best effective way - as addiction is the strongest pull than all other. Other emotions it is easy to let go conciously but guess addiction goes much deeper. ???

@Shaun Shaun solipsism is not truth.So forget it and be at peace.It is just a useful pointer to make us realize how limited the intelligence of senses,mind is limited to,restricted.The nature the intelligence beauty of creation.The uniqueness of every living being. Truth is not a concept.cannot be said.what ever said cannot be truth.They are just pointers to truth. So be happy be at peace.Let go the concept of solipsism.

@Schahin @Schahin @Schahin Now that is more specific about the type of disorder. Schizophrenia - Are you suffering from schizophrenia ? Now the person who suffer from schizophrenia know he is suffering from schizophrenia ? Most likely they dont know.Their perception is their reality. For now there is no cure for schizophrenia but can be treated and managed.The root cause of the disorder is not known and not addressed but only the symptoms are treated and managed. I havent taken 5meo so cannot anything about 5meo what insights it can bring or say it can cure the disorder brain malfunctioning or make the person taking 5 meo concious that he is having that disorder. Nor I do not know if 5 meo will amplify worsen the disorder. If it cures well and good if it doesnt take the medications prescribed to keep it under control non appearing.

@Joshe Just try to contemplate and share your thoughts. The assumption that primordial Infinite formless awareness (Shivam) must be present before the creation of creative power (Shakti) is just a intellectual logical conclusion - after thought or realisation ? Or in other words God infinity or power or intelligence which is assumed to have created the entire universe is it necessary that it must have awareness ? Infinity created awareness or awareness is just one aspect of creation ? If we are God why we are unable to create anything ???? Is I am God just a pointer concept to point out the wordless or it is absolute truth ???? Does enlightenment make the person all knowing all intelligent omnipresent omniscient ? Beyond mind and body do creation or God exists ????

@Schahin Nope.

@Anton_Pierre have a daily routine and act.Dont be idle.Monks dont sit idle as most people think.They are very busy indeed ??????

@mandyjw Lol because women are devil ??? Rajneesh was not against christ but christianity ??? (his own words) Lol If centering around one man Jesus is correct centering around Rajneesh is also correct ??? Just kidding (pulling your legs) why clinging to gender,religion ??? Rajneesh was a con-man a criminal in JK's words. Worlds greatest pimp in his own words. I wouldnt recco any one reading Rajneesh books.

@Zeke Lol you want to believe what you want to ??? Just a word of caution - avoid Rajneesh.

@Shaun Only some people are saying something on those lines. Non-violence,Non-killing (animals for food) etc were emphasized by Vedanta,Buddha,Mahavir. If somebody slaps you show your other cheek - Jesus Vasudhaiva kudumbakam - the world is one family. Live and let others live. That alone can be possibily truth. Nobody is getting hurt is pure unadulterated bs ? Will an enlightened being put his hands in fire saying nobody gets hurt and it is just imagination in my mind or pain is illusion blah blah.

@Natasha @Mikael89 @winterknight I am totally confused now.Please clarify. "Self Realisation is not an experience.It is not a state of mind.It is not nothingness,emptiness,void,samadhi,oneness how ever subtle blissful the experience it may be" Or increasing the conciousness can only bring profound experiences of the external objects not the Subject.As the subject is never an object of experience ? Is "No self - vanishing of I feeling or self of seperatedness or some call here that as ego death" mandatory for Self Realisation or not ? Some say it is.Some say it is not.-pls clarify. In short 5 meo can take one to temporary No self - Nothingness - void but that is not the Self ? - or that is the Self - pls clarify. Psychadelics can help defenitely seeing about ones conditionings free from them - are fine.But can psychedelics bring Self realisation ? Some say Self Realisation happens in a flash of second once realized thats all.No embodiment stabilizing etc. Others say the i feeling or sense of seperatedness re appears etc. If 5meo can bring self realisation whats the need to take multiple times ?

@illia Problems,Hardships self destructive pattern. So tell about what kind of problems,hardships you are unable to face.Thats where the solution to be found.

@Matt8800 The meaning of Yoga - Yoga means union. Any practice done for Self Realisation is said to be Yoga. Its a misconception that Yoga = Asanas. But Asanas are part of Yoga. Patanjalis Raja Yoga or Ashtanga Yogas third step is Asanas. Yoga Sashthras predates Patanjali. 4th is Pranayama. - the various pranayamas. Patanjali just formulated the then various practices prevailing then. Regarding Upanishads - They are path of Gnana not Raja Yoga path. Regarding Gita it is a mix of all the four Gnana,Yoga,Bhakthi,Karma.I.e it touches certain aspects of all four but mainly Gnana,Karma. Though the practioners of Gnana too do Pranayama its part of the daily routine plus Surya Namaskaram - The various body postures - Not part of the Hatha Yoga postures. Satvik food,Asanas,Pranayama,Prathyagara are part of taming the Tamo,Rajo Gunas. -------------------------------- Regarding Gurus - Gurus have very high importance in Indian Traditions. Guru is treated as God. Mother,Father,Guru and God.God is only given the last place in the order. Its part of the culture to worship Guru. Bowing touching feet before Elders,Parents,Guru,God is part of culture,tradition. Gurus didnt care about lineages - The wisdom was transfered generations by generations by the Gurus.Lineages have very high importance. The ego-pride-arrogance of one is surrendered by groveling like a worm to the Guru. No one is supposed to ask money for imparting the knowledge of self. But now everything is commercialised so finding Real Guru is very difficult.

@Pouya God is imagining pouya or pouya's mind is imagining that God is imagining pouya ???

@Preetom ??? I think Leo is right I will fly to mexico ??? and take that Bufo.Than trying to understand what the masters say. I-I-I Self shines in the heart as I-I. Heart is Self ??? Nisargadatta Maharaj - The I AM will vanish. You are not awareness,conciousness,Being,Non being But the absolute - Nisargadatta Maharaj You dont exist - Nisargadatta Maharaj ??? Awareness is not conciousness - Nisargadatta Maharaj. The Absolute need not be aware of itself as it is prior to Awareness ??????-Nisargadatta Maharaj Awareness is aware of itself.Awareness is always aware of itself and not any other objects - Rupert Spira.??? Osho - The I will vanish then the amness too will vanish. The Realisation Self is the witness of three states.-Turiya The concept of witness too will vanish - Turiyadeedha Chod dho Baba mujhe ??????

@Freakyboo Rupert Spira is an excellent teacher.Like preetom said he is repackaging advaita using different words. But his suggestion "aware of being aware" as the best meditation which is nothing but Saakshi - witnessing.Witnessing is talked by all including Nisargadatta Maharaj,Osho,Sri Ramana Maharishi. You are the witness and be the witness. But @PreetomRamana Maharishi,Saadhu OM,Nisargadatta Maharaj,David Godman,Gurudjieff emphasizes Self Enquiry - Self Attention - Focus on the I feeling till it vanishes. (The moment you know you are - You are Not. the moment you dont know you are - You are.)- Nisargadatta Maharaj.

@hamedsf Dear dont believe stories that a body sleeps only for 2 hours in a week ???

@Yannik @Yannik You are trying to address the symptoms than addressing the root cause ? Will that work ? Can mind deceive itself ? Listen to the mind what it is saying what it is cautioning ? What is your level of self confidence ? Why you are anxious ? Mind will always fear unknown territories.something which it has no prior experience of. Mind will caution about the end result. If it is too much about perfection in the first attempt thats not practical. So practice well.build your confidence and the symptom of anxiety and fear will greatly reduce. And once you deliver they wont appear again.

@Bill W what was the reason for locking the vedanta thread ?what was the mistake in the thread ? I agree the forum is having a greater cause mods are patient and defenitely certain threads needs locking all that is fine. But what if Leo is yet to realize what is being said ? Leo thinks he is more realized than 40 years meditating zen monk - How leo can know that ? Vedanta or many masters doesnt speak from the point of oneness.Oneness is an experience and not truth. Leos description that the Absolute is love Absolute is good are clearly states of mind and not the Absolute. Does taking weed and having some temp non dual experience though I never had (i tried weed 6-7 times but never non dual experience)will make one free from his bondages/conditionings ? Leo says all desires are divine - Most realized masters say desires are illusions bondage suffering they will never fulfill you. But leo says morality and values are conditionings illusions and against them. How convinient isnt it ???? Guess limiting spirituality to psychedelics is not healthy. Can anyone for sure vouch that psychedelics will not have any harmful effects on the body - mind ? How many have access to 5Meo ? Note Leos wisdom you are God you are free to do everything - do what ever you want but you will have to face the consequences is not defenitely what it is said - Freedom is not freedom for the mind to do what ever it wantd to but freedom from the mind ??? Absolute is neither the doer nor the experiencer. The dangers of treating the body mind as god oneness as god alone is ??? To be simply put body mind cannot exist with out the Absolute but the Absolute doesnt require the body mind. You are not the body mind then what world what oneness ??? Thats what said and the thread was locked ??? @Leo Gura