Zigzag Idiot

It was nonpossessive Love. I found it again at 2:16:50 in his part 2 of The 9 Stages of Ego Development. I like that description.

Hameed Almaas incorporates an abundance of Gurdjieff's Work and combines it with many traditions in the articulation of his Teaching that has become The Ridhwan School. The quotes of his below concern the Sufi tradition and their languaging of 'the Latiaf. Specifically here referring to the heart center and the phenomenalogical transformations that takes place aFter a good deal of innervwork. Lataif Level is the Transition from the Level of Energy to Essential Presence The Sufi tradition uses the lataif system. This is somewhat deeper than either of the above energy systems. In fact at this level it becomes difficult to speak of energy. We can still use the term energy, but the lataif really operate with the higher, more diluted forms of Essence. We can say that the lataif level is the transition from the level of energy to the deeper level of essential Presence. Essence with the Elixir of Enlightenment, pg. 40 Presence of the Lataif Can be Overlooked This particular one of the lataif, the heart center, is connected with the experience of compassion. At this level of experience, all of the excitement, glitter and drama of the heart chakra are gone. Instead, what is experienced in the chest cavity is emptiness. The whole chest feels as if it is gone. There is nothing left but a very clear, peaceful and silent emptiness. It feels as if nothing is occurring there, yet it is open and lucid. If the person pays closer attention, it will become apparent that this peaceful emptiness is pervaded by a very fine and subtle Presence, so fine and subtle that it is usually overlooked by the one having the experience. This fine and subtle Presence pervading the emptiness of the heart is the latifa or the first manifestation of it. The person will experience a subtle but exquisite sense of compassion, for himself and all others. Essence with the Elixir of Enlightenment, pg. 31p

Basicly a contemporary how to manual,,,,,,Note the subtitle- Nondual Christianity in Theory and Practice - I highly recommend it. Also her book The Wisdom Jesus. Also here is a good ACIM site. https://acourseinmiraclesnow.com/ There are several different ACIM websites to be found online. Most of them are really decent.

A few minutes ago I spontaneously expressed the importance of lightheartedness in The Fourth Way thread on the forum. Afterward I watched your latest video which I took as very similar to this theme. Neat synchronicity.

I cleared of part of a hillside with a machete today. A lot of saplings, vines, and briars. It was good exercise that required balance, attention and concentration, and agility. Im watching Leo's last video which is third the series on ego development. I appreciated the phrase he used talking about a higher Love in the previous video. Dang,,, I've gone blank. If I don't remember the word soon. I'll watch it again. I want to say he called it nonpossessive Love. That doesn't seem it, though, but it might be. Does anyone remember the exact word he used as a discriptor? '______ Love'? Give a shout out if you do..

The way of the Sly Man It's almost imperative that if we are to become Realized, the capacity for lightheartedness must be cultivated if one does not have this attribute naturally. I was going to make a foolishly bold claim just to be lighthearted. Maybe include that Gurdjieff sometimes referred to 'The Fourth Way' as 'The Way of the Sly Man.' I did a google search on -The Way of the Sly Man and found a -new to me,- e-magazine. At first glance, it looks like you get fairly regular free material but if you subscribe, as it always is the case, you get more stuff. As synchronicity would have it, I stumbled upon a good article which articulates the idea of Self Remembering much better than my hodgepodge of quotes from yesterday. I just copied and pasted a small section from the article. https://www.newdawnmagazine.com/articles/the-way-of-the-sly-man-the-teachings-of-g-i-gurdjieff Unlike these paths, the Fourth Way, “the way of the sly man,” does not require withdrawal from the world, but can and should be pursued in the course of everyday life; and instead of working with the mind, the body, or the emotions alone, it works with all three. It is, Gurdjieff claimed, faster and more efficient than the other three ways. “The ‘sly man’ knows the secret,” said Gurdjieff, “and with its help outstrips the fakir, the monk, and the yogi.” What is the sly man’s “secret”? It is a higher force, an energy that is able to penetrate the being of man and create unity in his centres where there was none before. This energy must come from above, but it will not come by itself; Gurdjieff does not preach quietism but advocates “conscious labours and intentional suffering.” (Indeed Gurdjieff’s disciples refer to his teaching as “the Work”; those attempting to follow it are said to be “in the Work.”) For a long time these “labours” and “sufferings” will consist, not in some sophisticated form of masochism, but in striving to overcome the slumber of daily life and see oneself as one really is. A central practice of the Fourth Way is self-remembering. “You do not remember yourselves,” Gurdjieff chides Ouspensky’s Petersburg group. “You do not feel yourselves; you are not conscious of yourselves. With you, ‘it observes’ just as ‘it speaks,’ ‘it thinks,’ ‘it laughs.’ You do not feel: Iobserve, I notice, I see.” Anyone who has read even a little in the literature of contemporary spirituality will find familiar resonances here, for many books emphasise the need for mindfulness. Gurdjieff’s teaching goes still further, for it puts this effort at the centre of the spiritual search. It also gives many more specific practices for “self-remembering”: people in the Work often receive instructions about being consciously present at certain moments of the day or during particular tasks. Many who have read about – or even practiced – Gurdjieff’s teaching seem to fall into the trap of seeing “self-remembering” as a completely cerebral practice; trying to carry it out, they end up simply being self-conscious in the ordinary sense. They miss an essential part of the practice: that self-remembering entails a conscious effort of sensing the body. Self-remembering begins with the body because, as the French Gurdjieffian Jean Vaysse puts it, the body “is solid and concrete, with an apparently stable form which can… be relied on to some degree. It is the instrument through which we perceive and our means of action. It can stay still voluntarily and thus is easier than the other parts for us to observe. It is relatively obedient, and we have a certain amount of control over it (in any case more than over our other parts). In addition, it is the one solid material base in us.” Hence a Gurdjieffian reading this article might attempt to read while giving some attention to the sensation of some part of the body, the foot or hand, say, or even the body as a whole. This may sound simple, but if you try it, you’ll find it isn’t. If you’re lucky, you may be able to keep this “divided attention” for a few seconds before you lose it again. For a long time the Work involves returning to this sensation of the body over and over again no matter what you’re doing. Such attempts are known as “efforts.” They are meant to counteract the sleep of everyday life. Those who persist in this practice find that some of the “maleficent consequences of the properties of the organ kundabuffer” are, if not destroyed, at least interrupted, for these efforts help to dissipate daydreaming, absentmindedness, and the hazy stupor in which we stumble through our lives. These efforts of attention tie into other aspects of the teaching as well. Gurdjieff defined attention as “the direction of the thinking centre’s activity.” Self-remembering, at least in the early stages, directs the “thinking centre” toward the body, which is governed by the “moving-instinctive centre.” Self-remembering brings these two centres closer together. When the mind is paying attention to the body, they are working a bit more in harmony, and the practitioner is slightly closer to becoming a unified being. (See the accompanying article on page ,,,,,,,, There is more to this article. For those who are interested, click on the link above or this one. https://www.newdawnmagazine.com/articles/the-way-of-the-sly-man-the-teachings-of-g-i-gurdjieff

Many Opportunities & No Time Limit by Dr. Jim Rosen ©2020 Dr. Jim Rosen This week’s mini-column is dedicated to a special person who is thinking about making a life change. I want this person to know that there is no time limit on your growing. You don’t have to rush to complete it so that you can then enjoy the rest of your life. Your purpose is to be growing and learning throughout your whole lifetime. The planet Earth is a great big school, and your Higher Power will guide you along to acquire all the teaching and the teachers you need. As you learn, you will evolve and develop. It’s a long-term process. But the more immediate goal is something you can start accomplishing right away. You have to make the decision to be intimately involved in this process of growing and learning. You have to make the commitment to carry it out. It won't always be easy. But sometimes it will be downright joyful. It is definitely not a one-time process. You will need to actively work on it many times. But don’t worry about ever running out of time or opportunities. Life will give you all the opportunities and time you need. Life is not in a hurry, nor should you be.

It's also a matter of context in addition to tone,,, I'm glad to see a move toward a more thoughtful, higher quality forum. Just hope my occasional irreverent moods don't get me into trouble. ??

Gru has Superego issues because he never got his mother's approval,,,

@Petals That book looks interesting. I may order it myself sometime. I just made a post specifically about Self Remembering in The Fourth Way thread recently started. Books that I,ve enjoyed from specific women's perspectives who were students of Gurdjieff - https://www.amazon.com/Undiscovered-Country-Spiritual-Kathryn-Hulme/dp/0955909082/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr= https://www.amazon.com/Gurdjieff-Women-Rope-1935-1939-1948-1949-ebook/dp/B086SGN1JK/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Women+of+the+Rope&qid=1599982267&s=books&sr=1-1

'Self Remembering' in the Fourth Way is kind of like how 'Love' is spoken of in ACIM in that, it is so all encompassing that a particular definition cannot really be given. It can be spoken of as a practice and also as a state of Consciousness and yet more. It's spoken of as a practice in conjunction with self observation which is the term more often used than self Inquiry. Yet, these two taken together might also be described by some as Self Inquiry from a Fourth Way perspective. Below is from Ian C. MacFarlane's - https://www.endlesssearch.co.uk/ It begins with a quote from Beelzebub's Tales To His Grandson and also ends with one, mixed with Gurdjieff's quirky sense of humor. "In the temples for men, namely in the 'agoorokhrostinis,' beings of the male sex of the given region or district performed in turn appropriate 'mysteries' while in a particular state called 'self-remembering.' (40) Self Remembering All-Brains-Balanced-Being-Perception In Gurdjieff's own words, Self Remembering could be described thus - "There are moments when you become aware not only of what you are doing but also of yourself doing it. You see both ‘I’ and the ‘here’ of ‘I am here’- both the anger and the ‘I’ that is angry. Call this self-remembering if you like." (Views From the Real World) Here is another description of Self Remembering from Mme Ouspensky - "What is the first characteristic of self-remembering? In this state is not center. He is not separate. Sitting in a room, he is aware of the whole room, of himself as only one of the objects in it. He is likewise aware of others and does not put himself above them or criticize or judge. This is not love, but it is the beginning of love. In this state a man has no self as he is usually aware of it. It is quite impossible for him to consider or become negative, for the moment he does so the state will vanish." (Robert de Ropp; Conversations with Mme Ouspensky: 1939-40 at Lyme; Farwest Press, 1974) Here is a quote from Beelzebub's Tales - "And just as nothing could be accomplished by the beings of their planet of former epochs, who, becoming responsible beings had even attained in respect of Being at least to what is called ‘self-remembering,’ then all the more, nothing effective can be done, devised, or actualized by beings with that Reason which the beings of this contemporary society possess and who in respect of Being are only perfected to the degree which our dear Mullah Nassr Eddin defines by the notion expressed in the following words: ‘Look! Look! He already begins to distinguish mama from papa!’" (41)

@seeking_brilliance I'm trying to reconcile the second reply with with the standard answer of what comprises the four different paths. The second A.I. Answer- The Fourth Way is a path to the ultimate truth in philosophy. The First Way focuses on identifying and analyzing the premises of various arguments, evaluating their validity or invalidity. The Second Way concerns the principles underlying all that exists, including logic itself. The Third Way looks at what should be rather than what is. The three traditional ways of the Fakir - focus on the body the Monk - devotion; focus on the emotions the Yogi- thee way of the mind/intellect The Fourth Way works simultaneously on the three centers - Hara; belly center/instinctive center 4th and 5th chakras/lower and higher emotional center 6th and 7th chakra Intellectual center and higher intellectual center. The work of the Fourth Way is carried out in the living of everyday life working on the three centers simultaneously, using life and life situations as one's Teacher with the Law of attraction setting the ciriculum-One's being attracts one's life which some see as Karma playing out. Note: My inclusion of the chakras should be taken with a heavy dose of salt. In the Fourth Way though it is commonly taught that there is a higher emotional center and a higher intellectual center that they are already completed but until the emotional center is purified, we remain disconnected from them. Having a hard time matching them,,, I may push the button on the AI again in another week or two and see what it says then. Thanks for sharing,,,

In the past when I heard others trying to resolve a difference in their understanding someone might eventually have an insight and say "Oh, ya know, this may just be in the semantics. I think this applies to some of what you've brought up. Looking into the semantics or different usages of phrases or words have resolved some of my disparities concerning Gurdjieff's Work juxtaposed with other systems. Also reading AH Almaas books have helped me quite a bit here. This is not to say I've resolved all my disparities. I would do better to be reading Lee van Laer's blog than spending time on some other sites while online,,, ? A few minutes ago I copied this from the comments section of this blog- http://nondualcafe.blogspot.com/2014/04/gurdjieffs-system-simplified-in-page.html Lenny in AustinJanuary 7, 2017 at 3:51 AM i have always been confused as to gurdjieff's higher being bodies vs non-dualist "there is no Self to have a "higher-being-body" Reply Replies Dean PJanuary 10, 2017 at 1:42 PM Thanks for the comment. It's true, that has always been a confusing point for me as well when reading through Gurdjieff's material, and his instistance, for example, in Beelzebub, to 'create' or 'coat' a higher being body. The method he proposes in Beelzebub mainly concerns 'conscious labour and intentional suffering' and bearing the manfiestations of others, which he calls 'a big thing'. The idea that man starts out with 'no soul' (but needs to create one) is prevalent throughout most Fourth Way material. As you point out, in contrast, the Nondualist position is generally that the personality/'I' self (ego) is an illusory thought-construct that has no permanent or real existence, and that the Self as Absolute exists only (in all and as all, including the play of phenomena). The only way to marry these two ideas into harmony would be to take the view that Gurdjieff's idea of needing to 'create a higher-being-body' serves as 1) a motivation to actually practice and move one out of his/her state of sleep, and 2) stabilise one's orientation in/as the Self (not the false "I"). In effect, there is no 'creation' going on, but a rediscovery and stabilising of one's being in/as being-consciousness-bliss or the real Self. This stabilising and gathering could be seen as 'creating' a higher-being-body, but not in the sense of creating something new out of nothing (which would be the tempting, but unfortunate conclusion that most Gurdjieff students would be aiming at, and still falls under the bondage of duality-- there now being a separate albeit "higher" individual floating around that is autonomous from the whole).

I'm fine with moving it if the Moderators choose to. A fellow Actualizer, @seeking_brilliance, recommended here or the Actualization thread.

The specific intent or situational practice of - 'not reaching any conclusions ' has been very helpful for me at times when strong emotions are trying to take over. Like when a part of me is really wanting to put a judgement on others or a situation. But it's only helpful to the degree that I remember that intent. As Red Hawk puts it- Sometimes I eat the Bear but sometimes the bear eats me. The Bear perhaps being the painbody in Eckart Tolle speak. Not reaching conclusions seems to help cultivate a spaciousness that compulsive overthinking stands out in contrast to and can then be easier let go of. In my experience of it,,, Wait a minute! Did I just reach a conclusion about the benefit of not reaching conclusions? ?

Ive been busy. Been meaning to start a thread on the Fourth Way in the Self Actualization Forum. I’ve fallen behind in reading others journals too. Ill probably get caught up in a day or two.

What Does It Mean to Have Peace of Mind? by Dr. Jim Rosen ©2020 Dr. Jim Rosen It means that you express the feeling of peace toward yourself and toward your brothers and sisters. You are not at war with the world or yourself. You are not in a state of conflict with yourself and others. You want to learn and grow. Indeed, you strive to learn and grow. But you do not point the finger at your own mistakes or those of others. You look right past the mistakes to the inner beauty. You recognize that the outward picture of a person is just that. So you look past the picture and see the spark of goodness in all. And because you do, you see with clarity what we really are. And you give peace and gratitude to what we really are. When you stray from peace and gratitude, you renew your focus on what is real and good in us. And you do it with patience.

Great replies and advice from @Ananta and@Farnaby . What they said rang true with me when I read this thread just now. As someone who couldn't let go of an unrelenting hatred toward a couple of people years ago, after 6 or 7 years I finally recognized how poisonous hatred was in relation to my inner life. it was this recognition that @Ananta mentioned that helped me over a hurdle in this process. A process where I forgave but then the hatred and unforgiveness returned many many times before it began to stick. Thought I would pass on this practice. This first one I just found and is very brief and to the point. The second video is the one I usually pass on for anyone wanting to learn this practice. A Course In Miracles helped me with practicing forgiveness as well. Forgiveness or overlooking others transgressions could almost be said to be the primary theme in this Course/book. Good luck,,,

A new aquaintence of mine shared his enthusiasm with me regarding the band Pantera. I brought up this video today and the idea of SD level Red came to mind.

First let me say that I'm not in opposition to anyone here but I've had a similar phenomena for roughly 12 years. It has been something which comes and goes. When I took up a Centering Prayer meditation practice in 2017 it became more persistent and seems to correlate with when my state becomes closer to the state of nonconceptual awareness. Also another subtle phenomena often comes into play more whenever this happens. Hameed Almaas gives an explanation for this, possibly.. In the quote I use of his, the phrase of the Diamond Guidance is used in explaining this. Long story made short, the Diamond Guidance is simply another name for the Holy Spirit so this may be a little confusing. I won't get into the reason for him more or less interchanging these phrases. I also need to say what I've just said isn't 100% accurate but if you hold these things loosely in the category of possibilities, over time the exactitudes may fall into place. Maybe not,, You can be the one to eventually decide. But the phenomena definitely has a very subtle throb or pulse to it, in the forehead. Opening of the Forehead by the Diamond Guidance Usually the Diamond Guidance operates as a presence in the center of the forehead. When it arises in support of discrimination and understanding, we become aware of an expansion as space opens up in the forehead. With that expansion comes a sense of peacefulness; the Black aspect at the center of the forehead opens and we feel stillness and spaciousness. When the Diamond Guidance arises in this peacefulness, we feel a delicate presence, a pulsating energy that possesses a sense of clarity and transparency, an intelligence, an illumination. This delicate, pulsing, breathing presence appears as understanding, as insight, as intuition. As the forehead opens, we feel the Diamond Guidance as a tingling, an energetic throbbing—but very delicate, very soft, very subtle. If we are not attuned, we might dismiss it as just a physical twitch. Or if there is a lot of blockage, as is often the case in the early stages of our development, the diamond might feel hard. Due to the blockage, it can't get through, so it feels almost like a rock. But if we are relaxed and open, we feel it as a softness, a delicacy. Spacecruiser Inquiry, pg. 226 https://www.diamondapproach.org/glossary/refinery_phrases/forehead This is just one of six quotes from this page. If you think this has something to do with what you have going on, you can dig more into his Teachings just by looking into these phrases you encounter in the Glossary. Maybe read one of his books. His book Spacecruiser Inquiry may be the most relevant having to do with this phenomena.

@diamondpenguin I appreciate your assessment. ??‍♂️

The raising of consciousness should maybe also concern giving a fair hearing to voices of reason. Those which counteract the highminded guilt trippers on the left which tend to mostly just outrage the more seemingly practical minded identified with Orange worldviews. Those in Orange who are constantly triggered by the out of touch bleeding hearts found so often entrenched in SD Green. I don't mean to dramatize or convey cynicism in saying this. Both sides have valid points and each could use more informed, diplomatic representatives to find the common ground. The fantasies promoted by Disney animations that anthropomorphize animals are perhaps a case in point which confuse so many and create an unnecessary sharp divide. I admit my languaging here is somewhat biased against the left. This admission is given to hopefully add balance and forego editing what I've expressed. I tend to side with the bleeding hearts just as often if not more than I do those of the Orange pov. of which I'm out of and perhaps more familiar with. Please, speak your mind,,,

AH Almaas from 1986,,, "Here's looking at you kid",,,,