Zigzag Idiot

Dissociation through humor mock anger Youre a riot ?

I just watched that top YouTube you posted on March 2 - Why You Should Practice Being Stupid, Dumb, Unthinking. I've searched for youtubes explaining inner or internal considering as it's used in the Fourth way. I've only found about 3 or 4 so far. Given the huge relevance for this subject, that's not very many. This Benedict Cumberbatch video describes well the scope of inner considering as it's used in Fourth Way Inquiry, in my view. By the way, Great Journal!!

Rereading my post I sound arrogant. Which might mean I'm at yellow but then so are you. Not you @Shin you still have green coping mechanism

From my perspective as a student of the Fourth Way you seem to have that balanced wisdom that comes from discerning these two states and knowing that you cross this boundary because you have felt and observed the experience of it. You not claiming it when I throw it out cinches the deal. I was kinda being a joker throwing out the Gurdjieff terms for 2 Centered Awareness and 3 Centered Awareness. You may not know the vocabulary of the Fourth Way but the practical knowledge of shows in your being. Of what forum topics I've read of your ideas and opinions, I can't remember having a contrasting view with anything you've written. Im not trying to flatter you. Just calling it like I see it.

You're Awake and notice the difference between Itoklanoz awareness and Fulasnitamnian Awareness/knowing. But that's not for me to say. Are you in Fulasnitamnian Awareness? Most of my life my identity and personality both were whatever was coming out of the car speaker. The constant capacity for Spontaneous Disco is at a pretty high level. I'm not quite there yet.

Essence/Body types

I thought of this a few days ago. If you understand why there seems to be a high rate of suicide among squirrels who live near the road then you understand why in part its a little more difficult for a mercurial (thyroid) essence types to do Inquiry than other types. All that energy which is hard to contain is a part of the price they pay for their natural superior perceptive abilities, perhaps. http://destinyclemens.com/Destinyclemens/Gallery_1/Pages/Mercury.html im a Solar Saturn/mars type. Mars and Mercury energy often clash with one another.

Good deal. I'm glad you see a validity. I was really tickled when I discovered Leo referencing Ouspensky. It's amazing how many different paths that came about with the Human Potential Movement that began in the 50's and 60's that were influenced by Gurdjieff and Ouspensky. The link I pasted is a Christian Contemplative site in which a fair percentage (30-40% I'm guessing) are church goers. What you saw was her presentation of the overall ideas to this group. A lot of the reason for the generalization and brevity. I took that quote of Ocke's out of context. He was reffering to the mostly shadow subconscious junk people have which are the basis for projections onto others, instead of surface level personal stuff. Ocke gives a non dual approach through a homey style of communicating. His books Higher Being Bodies and Two Souls are masterpieces in expressing the Gurdjieff Teaching buried in Beelzebub's Tales To His Grandson. Ockes statement - "To really feel others is a huge achievement." Was a reffering to heart intuition and the psychological identifications that are deeply rooted which block it. His reffering to people as wounded animals is because of the reactivity that comes about out of people in deep and constant suffering. I used to be a complainer in a constant way and was completely blind to it. In remembering that period of life, I was very much like a wounded animal in being reactive to others like a hurt dog. With me, I think there is still a lot of deep fear based stuff that when churned up can turn me into 100% meachanical reaction. Or take the enneagram as a device for determining blindspot or chief feature as it's called in the Work,,,,, Really deep inner work that a person does themselves is what Ocke was reffering to. The Work on self required to move into the transpersonal. I very much agree and get the truth, of some of it, anyway. From Gurdjieff, I get through Ocke and Cynthia's articulation of the union of the opposites is through the ability to simply be a witnessing placeholder. But in that willingness for patience and the ability to endure the present moment with Impartiality that the "purely emotional response due to mind-body conditioning" you mention, comes into recognition. When I lived as a near constant emotionally suffering neurotic person, being impatient and reactive was so much a part of my software that I didn't see it because I WAS it. Hope I didn't misconstrue something your wrote and I hope I made some sense in response. I appreciated your thoughts and response.

To Leo and the Moderators - In email communications, Gog said he was kicked out of the Actualized forum. I don't even know what it was about but he expressed to me a change of heart. I would just like to request that he be given another chance. Thanks

Continuity with complete acceptance,,,,,,

??????Don't want to go here???? ???????? ????????

Brad Warner, contemporary Zen Master makes some good points. I feel a more accurate title would have been Spiritual Awakening is Bullshit, but it's not but it is. I read most of his books a few years ago and became inspired to learn and start practicing Zazen which eventually led me to a consistent meditation practice. Although quite scholarly, he's very real and down to earth and not caught in the trappings of Zen Buddhism. He doesn't "stink of Zen" as the old expression goes.

A few months ago I was compelled to rip the wall paper off my bathroom wall and give expression on the more writable Sheetrock.

I referred to Cynthia Bourgeault teaching about the Law of three and three centered awareness in my Journal. The phrase she actually uses is three centered knowing. https://wisdomwayofknowing.org/resource-directory/three-centered-knowing/ One of my favorite Fourth Way Authors, Ocke de Boer uses the word Awareness often instead of knowing. He's also written a lot on how purifying the emotional center is what enables intuitive knowing is through a quiet purified emotional center. He puts it another way in one of his articles. "To really feel others is a huge achievement. Our feeling-centre needs to be speeded up for this. It needs to become healthy and independent. In most people the feeling-centre is a wounded animal in need for much attention. Because of these wounds they cannot even feel themselves, so to feel other creatures is very difficult for them. About this striving there is also a saying in esotericism: ‘If those above do not move up, then those below cannot move’. To understand this we need a healthy feeling-centre, a compassionate one. A healthy, independent and compassionate feeling centre is achieved by practicing the being-obligolnian-strivings, and it can therefore act from Conscience." Are we talking about the same thing?

Metanoia - Down below -"the worst translation in the New Testament." Metanoia, a transliteration of the Greek μετάνοια, is "a transformative change of heart; especially: a spiritual conversion."[1] The term suggests repudiation, change of mind, repentance, and atonement; but "conversion" and "reformation" may best approximate its connotation.[2] In The King James Version of the Bible, its verbal cognate metanoeo/μετανοέω is translated as repent.[3] Scholar J. Glentworth Butler says that, in the Greek, there is none of the sorrow or regret contained in the words repentance and repent. Repentance denotes "sorrow for what one has done or omitted to do; especially, contrition for sin."[24] Repent primarily means "to review one's actions and feel contrition or regret for something one has done or omitted to do"[25] Therefore, Butler asserts that translating metanoeō/μετανοέω and metanoia/μετάνοια as repent and repentance constitute "an utter mistranslation" that translators excuse by the fact that no English word can adequately convey the meaning of the Greek words.[7] A. T. Robertson concurs with Butler. Regarding the translation of metanoia as repentance, Robertson calls it "a linguistic and theological tragedy."[26] Regarding John the Baptist's call to "repent" as a translation of the Greek metanoeite, Robertson quotes Broadus as saying that this is "the worst translation in the New Testament." Repent means "to be sorry," but John's call was not to be sorry, but to change mental attitudes [metanoeite] and conduct.[27] Robertson lamented the fact that in his time there was no English word that signified the meaning of the Greek μετάνοια (metanoia).[28] - from Wikipedia Kenosis In Christian theology, kenosis (Greek: κένωσις, kénōsis, lit. [the act of emptying]) is the 'self-emptying' of Jesus' own will and becoming entirely receptive to God's divine will. The word ἐκένωσεν (ekénōsen) is used in Philippians 2:7, "[Jesus] made himself nothing ..."[Phil. 2:7] (NIV) or "...[he] emptied himself..."[Phil. 2:7] (NRSV), using the verb form κενόω (kenóō) "to empty". - from Wikipedia Was Jesus teaching a method, perhaps? To transform ones mind or way of thinking requires first Kenosis then Metanoia. Centering Prayer employs the kenotic gesture of continually letting go of all thought.

This points to the value of Leo's do nothing meditation which is a not-doing contrasted with the doing and the momentum of the ordinary world and the sleep of the Cultural consensus.

I've really enjoyed this extensive interview from 2003 put in a 10 DVD set. This is a sample from that interview that was put on YouTube from the section talking about Gender tendencies. Just noticed Amazon had one of this set left in stock for $45.00 Before the birth of the universe, there existed your Original Face, the limitless Self that has been present throughout the unfolding of inert matter into life―and that continues to dwell within us at every level of consciousness. Where is this grand evolution taking us, and how can each of us participate in it more fully? On Kosmic Consciousness, Ken Wilber invites you to find out. Since the first publication of his groundbreaking ideas at the age of 23, Ken Wilber has sought to bring together the world's far-ranging spiritual teachings, philosophies, and scientific truths into one coherent and all-embracing vision. This "integral" map of the Kosmos (the universe that includes the physical cosmos as well as the realms of consciousness and Spirit) offers an unprecedented guide to discovering your highest potentials. Now, this legendary author invites you to discover these insights in his first full-length audio learning course. In 10 fascinating sessions, Wilber pursues questions especially relevant to spiritual seekers: What are the most effective tools for "jumping" to the next level in your spiritual, creative, and cognitive development? Does prayer work? How do women and men experience consciousness differently? Is subtle energy real and, if so, how do we harness it? Why is developing "witness consciousness" so crucial for self-realization? Can we cultivate infinite love by loving one, finite person? What, exactly, does "kosmic consciousness" feel like? One of our greatest possibilities, teaches Wilber, is "to balance and harmonize our experiences at whatever stage of growth we are in―and to deepen our capacity for compassion, consciousness, and care." For Ken Wilber's many avid readers, and anyone who has been waiting for a highly accessible invitation to his work, here is one of the most significant thinkers of our time―spontaneous, passionate, irreverent―sharing a feast of ideas to inspire you on your evolution toward Kosmic Consciousness.

The Goldilocks just right solution reminded me of the law of three Law of three Law of three basics Active force - Paasive force - neutralizing force Finding the appropriate neutralizing force between active and passive forces brings about a new arising or solution. The neutralizing force is something determined to be just right, like the Goldielocks solution. Webpage about law of three - https://www.endlesssearch.co.uk/philo_lawof3.htm

Castenada said look for your hands in the dream state to bring one into a lucid dream. Looking at the hands again verifies and amps up lucidity. A few years ago I followed the path of the Dreamer. I was amazed at how much a dream joural can help. It has to be right beside the bed where you can reach it half asleep first thing in the morning. It was like actually putting the pen and paper in place, along with the intention to do this immediately triggered more dreams. A metaphoric realization I had in hindsight was that movement of the body acts like an eraser that starts erasing dreams the minute we get out of bed. Each different time I kept a dream journal, my entries would consistently grow longer. When I would quit writing them down, the dreaming would lessen. Ive had three lucid dreams years ago. So At least I've had the experience. They were the realist mystical experiences that I've ever had. I felt more aware THERE than here. But then they also had a quality similar to an LSD trip. The paradoxical nature of it. I've only done LSD a handful of times. I've had 11/2 bad trips. It's an experience of something that seems worse than hell that will make you love your enemies. Impartiality will grow faster from this than anything, eventually, after recovering. Supposedly there are two paths in white sorcery. The dreamer and the stalker. I abandoned the path of the dreamer and focused on being a stalker. A stalker does the same thing that self observers do in practicing Inquiry. Ones own weaknesses and mechanical behaviors are stalked. They're elusive to our own seeing. It requires the ability for one to create their own strategies suitable for the particularities of ones life. Making the work ones own in a healthy sense. Stalking was seen as more of a necessity for me than dreaming. Portraying Gurdjieff as a boy in the 70's movie Meetings with remarkable men.

Although I feel that the only real Love is unconditional love, the following quote describes why I feel holding unconditional Love as a standard to live by is really a mistake. "The idea of both conditional and unconditional love comes from the collective ego, and reveals its thinking in terms of opposites. Giving love on conditions is the ego's way of withholding love until it gets what it wants. True love is a Cosmic gift to a person's true self, and is meant to flow from there to other's true selves, and back to the Cosmos, in a complete circle. This Cosmic gift is never meant to be thrown away at the ego because the ego is outside the Cosmic principles. The collective ego has invented the idea of unconditional love to rob the True self of its very life force, under the pretense that it is "spiritual" to extend one's love to everyone, regardless of the ego's presence." -from The Oracle Of The Cosmic Way.

The mean old sky God Getting rid of the last traces of the old sky God can take some time, like Inquiry or integration. I'm referring to the angry God of the Old Testament that got introduced into a lot our minds in childhood. I want to look at it as an element of superego. Just by associations in the mind an old picture of God with an emotional element tied to it can last a lifetime if not observed and processed. I see these traces in mental images that cause a subtle sense of guilt/fear/contraction in the body when images are in the mind This statement would probably offend most fundamentalists but I doubt there are any around close. Two major elements comprising our spiritual sleep: Imagination Negativity Leo's 3 part series on self deception and Mankind is a Bullshiting Animal come to mind and suggests this assessment of spiritual sleep is not far from Leo's. Two unflattering characteristics shared by everyone in different degrees that take a monumental effort to transform. It's not sex that makes the world "go around". It's the feeding on negativity and negative emotions.This is declared by those in the Fourth Way and I have begun to observe overtime how these two issues constitute the majority of work to be done on oneself. We don't see our own mechanicalness but others do. We all have a psychological blindspot. We shouldn't normally feel anxious or depressed or experience unearned guilt. Holding grudges and having grievances with others perpetuates negative feedback loops. When we feel hurt it's easy to react in a mechanical way and perpetuate a cycle of negativity.

States and Stages Never trust a state of consciousness, Ken Wilbur said. They frequently change. Whereas stages are more stable. Both include degrees of being. In the post just above I pasted quotes relevant to what underlies 3 centered awareness. Modern nondual mystic and Christian Contemplative Cynthia Bourgeault is teaching this in workshops and retreats. She's one of the first women ordained as an Episcopal Priest has a phd and has been in the Gurdjieff Work for about 30 years. She teaches this notion of 3 centered awareness that comes from Gurdjieff. Her retreats and wisdom schools are usually booked up months in advance. I mention this to show I'm not making this up as a rogue student of Gurdjieff's ideas. To articulate these ideas without notes helps me learn and apply it and understand it better. About 3 Centered Awareness Gurdjieff simply said; "everything more vivid" In my own Inquiry I've noticed an amnesia of sorts that exists when one goes from high state of consciousness to a low state of consciousness. The low can't see the higher but the higher CAN see the lower. Why it doesn't have more of an impact when in a high state of consciousness is that when we're in that state - nothing is wrong in a sense. We don't feel the inner angst that disrupts our thoughts as it does when we fall off into a low state. Simply not inhabiting the body is a recipe for a low state of consciousness. Gurdjieff referred to it as Itoklanoz awareness. 3 centered awareness. - Fulasnitamnian Awareness -- impartial or balanced awareness 1 or 2 Centered Awareness - Itoklanoz Awareness -- deficient emptiness often felt Maurice Nicoll says this also about people in different stages of Being of Consciousness. Those who are lower in Being can't see/understand those who are higher in Being. The higher can see the lower though. This can be observed and realized by about everyone because the human psyche is so varied, just about anyone can observe someone who is lower in Consciousness/being and over time in hindsight see times of expansion ones own awareness. Its not that everything is wonderful in Fulasnitamnian Awareness but one becomes more impartial and balanced. We can all see how fragile our states are when we do Inquiry together over time. To some extent, everyone goes up and down and when it becomes more extreme, we lose our continuity of being. To reach the level of continuity is very doable. It just takes sincere Inquiry over time. Meditation does help this process. I'm not ambitious enough to have opinions on all of Leo's practices but I do intend to take on more of them in the future. Don't take my word. Do Inquiry and Observe for yourself. Honestly observe the negativity when it shows up and don't fall into self criticism. Don't feel guilty for a thought that just shows up. It's not you. Let go and don't identify. Notice how Inner quiet brings relief.after a spell of neurotic anxiety or temporary depression.

I agree. I see this in myself and others. Roots of what turns into belligerence, perhaps. Allow me to be so pompous as to theoretically give a solution to this problem in education that would involve distancing from left brain rationality to include the Chaotic right brain as well as whole body awareness. Starting with Carol Anthony's take on commonsense which she makes one word out of. Commonsense: is a consensus of all the senses. The commonsense comprises the five senses of inner perception and the metaphorical senses. In humans, the commonsense is the "inner judge," which discerns what is in harmony with the person's inner truth (and therefore also in harmony with the Cosmos) and what is not. It's judgement is based on the inner senses, and is in the form of feeling. Another function of the commonsense is that of being the Helper of Transformation (This applies only to humans). This function is referred to in the Hexagrams 15, Modesty, 16, Enthusiasm, 17, Following, and 21 Biting Through. As part of our animal nature, the commonsense gets blocked when a person's animal nature has been slandered as "lowly" or as "the source of evil". Why education needs to include instructing that we are '3 brained beings' - Zigzag Almaas: “For the process of understanding to happen, three elements need to be there at the same time. The element of disidentification is one of them, involvement is another. The third element is the quality of allowing. These elements can be there when there is harmony among the three centers—the belly center, the chest center, and the head center. When there is this harmony, it is possible to experience fully, to allow, and to disidentify. Now, what do I mean by these three elements? Each center contributes to the process of understanding. If the head center is functioning correctly, it means that space or emptiness is allowed. What is the significance of space and emptiness? Space and emptiness make possible the quality of allowing. When there is space in the mind, there is no self-image. You’re not trying to stick to something in particular. You’re not trying to go somewhere. The mind is allowing whatever is there to be there. So the head center’s participation or contribution is space, which is an allowing, a welcoming in a sense—space for things to happen without rejection, without trying to hold on. You become complete allowing. The heart center’s contribution has to do with its central quality, which is the personal essence. The contribution of the personal essence is the diving movement, the actual living of the experience. You not only allow it, you’re in the midst of it, you’re one with it. You’re really it, you let it happen, you feel it fully, you sense it fully, you experience it fully, right? That’s the contribution of the heart center. The belly center has its contribution, which is represented by the self, the essential self. The contribution of the essential self is the disidentification, the turning away. When you are truly functioning in the belly, you are completely present, and being completely present, you are being yourself. So you are not identified with the usual activity of trying to get somewhere else.” Diamond Heart Book Three, pg. 73 Almaas: “Distinguishing Physical Sensation from Essential Substance The capacity to sense oneself must become so refined that the individual can discriminate between physical sensation and the sensation of essential substance. It is not enough that the mind be quiet. It is also necessary for the body to be sensitive. The mind can be quiet while the body is deadened. The body has to be awakened so that the center of sensing, the belly center, can be activated. The belly center, or what Gurdjieff called the physical center, is the center of sensing for all parts of the body. Its deepest function is the subtle sensing, the sensing of essential presence, that the Sufis call the organ for touch. Touch is, in a sense, the most intimate of the physical senses. The skin must be directly against an object to touch it. There is no intermediary medium, like sound for hearing or light for seeing. So this subtle capacity is a very intimate one. Accurately speaking, it is sensing essence by being essence. It is the most direct way of perception. This capacity of touch, connected with the belly center, is very intimately connected with the embodiment of essence. It is the body center; its mode of perception is embodiment. Here, perception as touch, and being, are the same act. So this capacity is the most important one.” Essence with the Elixir of Enlightenment, pg. 130 “Functioning of the Essential Self in the Belly Center Yes, usually the belly center has to do with embodiment, with the capacity to sense oneself. However, the belly center is also the will center. In a sense, the ultimate function of the will is to surrender to what happens, surrender to the now. And surrender to the now means not to hold on to something. The true function of the will is complete surrender to what’s happening without holding on. That is will. The essential self, like all essential aspects, can function in any of the subtle centers. When one is being the essential self its location is usually the heart center. However, when the essential self is functioning in relation to identifying or disidentifying from any content of experience, it becomes associated with the belly center. The essential self is more like a potential for experience, and it also manifests as a capacity for identification. One of the results of that capacity for identification is embodiment. Embodying something means you are identified with what’s happening. An essential state is present. You are embodying it if you are it. The true self has the capacity to identify with something you are experiencing, but it doesn’t have to. It has a choice; it has the freedom.” Diamond Heart Book Three, pg. 79 I guess my notions about commonsense have turned into an argument for education and Culture itself as being too left brained and doesn't include much in the way of whole body awareness or including the heart in the process of perceiving and understanding. This might be relating back to your mention of the paradox of commonsense and introspection. I may have gone off on a tangent but this is my version of fun,,,, Given also that my blindspot is still mostly intact, there is probably some form of me not seeing the forest for the all the trees,,,,