ivory

This is my favorite movie!

By getting professional help.

Yeah this is why I'm not a fan of the word "spiritual". I like "authentic" because there's less room for interpretation and "healthy" and "unhealthy" adjectives are also quite helpful. I would also include an awareness component. Let's just say that if you're truly on the path you strive to live a healthy, authentic lifestyle with conscious effort. It's not perfect, I'm sure others could come up with a more concise definition. This is how it is now,. Desires change, future uncertain. What are you talking about? What does it mean to grow spiritually? The wrong friends will hold you back, and the right friends will make you grow. I'm not denying any facts. I have yet to be presented any facts. This thread is for those who are denying their basic human needs. Green, pink, purple, whatever. I can relate. I'm an INFJ. Some of this is an introverted characteristic. Some of this is specific to the spiritual practitioner. Many isolate. Some learn to accept and adapt. Others seek out more compatible friends.

@Javfly33 I've been coding for 15 years and would like to offer you some advice. In that time, I have only met two people that made it without a degree that made it in my field. The first just loved computers, was curious, and a genius. He had practical skills as well as an in depth technical knowledge. He was always reading and learning. The other lacked intelligence but made up for it in persistence and creative actions. He ran a local meetup group for software developers. I personally thought he was stupid but he earned my respect because he didn't quit. The last I heard about him we were both offered a job at the same company making $150k per year. I turned it down for something else whereas he accepted. I am still impressed that he was able to rake in that kind of salary with no college degree. What you need is maximum exposure in your city. I would highly recommend starting a javascript meetup group and commit to doing at least one event per month. @SaltyMeatballs suggested that you hire a professional to write your resume and I encourage you to listen to him. I would never write my own resume, leave that to the professionals, trust me, it's worth it. Good on you for picking javascript, keep at it, it is and will always be the most sought after skill. Learn everything you can about javascript. Read beginner and advanced books. Also, see if you can do some volunteer work. You are going to need to prove that you can handle responsibility. Look into open source projects, offer local companies to work for free or cheap, and just keep chugging along.

@Thought Art Tell us more. How did it go down?

Yep, it happened to me, and it was a nightmarish six years. I won't say you need to be concerned, but I would encourage you to develop a healthy sense of self before you tackle the advanced stuff. I'm not sure where you're at developmentally but if you experience depression, anxiety, loneliness, or low self worth then you need to start there. Ignore that shit now and and it will show no mercy later.

@nistake If I had to guess I'd say he's retaliating because he was duped and misled by a spiritual teacher. He's angry, and still hasn't learned to think for himself, so he's acting out. @QandC Dude, I just clicked your youtube channel link. Didn't realize that was you. Your Frank Yang interview popped up in my feed last week. Good stuff.

Fo' shizzle dizzle! It's really interesting to see that now. I was just hanging out with a guy from Ethiopia and was complaining about society. He claims that people today no longer share "universal" values such as honesty, compassion, and community. I bit my lip, but I get why he'd expect others to share the same perspective. I want to a harem where hot babes in bikinis give me back rubs and feed me grapes. I don't think that's asking too much.

I don't think you're being honest. You're not the only one who's been triggered here. That said, I'm not here to ruffle feathers. I'm friendly, and I prefer to banter and play, but I am also challenging and I will call your ass out. Love me or hate me I appreciate your perspective.

@Rilles @DocWatts @LeoX8 @Carl-Richard @RendHeaven @DocWatts @datamonster @Carl-Richard Thanks for the honesty and sharing your wisdom. This was super helpful. When I first joined this forum I was in the middle of a stage orange crisis unable to see that I was being pushed into green. That was about two years ago. Thankfully, Leos videos put an end to my confusion and misdirection. On one hand, I can start to see some yellow shining through, on the other I can see that there's a lot of work to do. I've learned a couple of things so far. The transition isn't black and white. Your values and behaviors may reflect those of a certain stage but each stage requires a significant amount of changes and a radically different perspective. This can only take time. It's silly to be concerned with where you're at on the spiral, and to do so is to miss the point. No stage is better than the next and each stage has very important lessons to learn and embody. Graves said that there are no single-colored people, rather a kaleidoscopic blend of varying characteristics from each level. I resonate the most strongly with green, but I also recognize that I haven't embodied it fully. On a similar note, I'm not quite as assertive as someone in red or ambitious as someone in orange. So much to learn and integrate. Life is pretty cool, never a dull moment.

Of course I do. However, at green you become hyper aware of the causes of suffering and finally begin focusing on everyday enjoyment. In contrast, orange suffers immensely because they believe that happiness can only found in the future. I can't say this is universal, but in my personal experience, the unhealthy preoccupation with personal growth drops away as you settle into a predominant mode of enjoyment. The value for growth doesn't take a back seat, but your expectations are tempered with realism. And, while yellow sounds cool, I know that I have little control over progress and the transition will happen in due time. I am in no hurry. That said, as you settle into green, you do become aware of yellow flavored modes of thought. I think that a healthy green would be humble an honest enough to admit that they far less mature than those such as Noam Chomsky. Yellow is a serious claim of attainment and I would be very wary of those who think they are on that level.,

I thought a little more about my intention for starting this thread and I realize now why this topic is so important to me. Two years ago I was in the middle of a very painful and confusing existential crisis. What I didn't realize is that I was transitioning out of Orange and into Green. I simply had no knowledge of spiral dynamics. As soon as I saw the spiral dynamics video on green, I recognized what was happening to me, and was finally able to chart a clear path forward. The thread referenced above marks the day I began my transition into green. Two years has since passed and I am reporting a profound transformation. I am at home in green and feel a very mature embodiment of green values. What I want to point out is that the contents of this current thread include many of the insights and lessons I have learned over the last two years, and highlights some of the mistakes I had made prior to that. I personally don't think that you can make much progress towards enlightenment if your values are predominantly orange. I also believe that progress will be limited until you can develop and maintain healthy relationships with others and resolve issues such as chronic loneliness, depression, and anxiety. Ups and downs are inevitable, but consciousness isn't vivid until your mood is bright and stable. Mental health is imperative to stabilizes in green, let alone transition to yellow. What I'm trying to say is that if you suspect you are on the cusp of green, or have reached a stage where you have had it with loneliness and the endless pursuit of accomplishment, then you might want to pay attention to what I have to say here. To be green be solid in green is pure joy.

@7thLetter Good stuff There are several ideas I am challenging here but that is definitely one of them. I understand now that you are referring to formal meditation and inquiry. You are definitely not wrong about that. The disconnect we have is because we use the terms "growth", "spirituality", and "practice" quite differently. I make no distinction between "ordinary life" and "spiritual life". My teachers made sure that the students really understood this. We were taught that true practice includes the difficulties we instinctively avoid as well as the emotions we don't want to feel. We also taught to practice in every waking moment, in all situations, including relationship. Leo and my most influential teacher, Ezra Bayda, share some common elements in their personal growth philosophies, which is part of the reason I'm drawn to this forum. Both philosophies are fairly comprehensive, emphasizing practices that facilitate personal growth and the embodiment of absolute truth. This is not very common. I found a few of my teachers quotes on the web that I'd like to share here. Hopefully this will help you understand where I come from and why I oppose some views shared by members of the forum. These four quotes summarize what the majority of spiritual practice entails but most people here will not want to hear it. Nobody wants to believe that spiritual life is just ordinary life (hence the tendency to renounce the ordinary)... Leo's ego is somewhat wrapped up in his lone wolf identity. I've seen him glorify the lone wolf lifestyle and I just find it irresponsible. Most people don't do well in isolation. The lone wolves of this forum suffer from loneliness and confusion as you can see here in a quick forum search. Many seem to believe that isolation is required to reach higher states of consciousness or achieve "advanced" levels of development. Thankfully, Leo does debunks those ideas here and here. Hopefully more people will see this. I'm not sure about you, but spiritual practice for me reduces suffering while maximizing enjoyment and a sense of meaning. Isolating in a cave is going to have a very different effect. I'm not saying that we won't grow or develop at all, but will not be nearly as developed as the average member of society. Society makes us grow. I've heard rumors of the cave-dwelling lifestyle, but I doubt the monks were formally trained. Monks, at least in the Buddhist and Zen traditions, live in community. Monastics live an extremely challenging life but are tough as nails. I would highly recommend spending time as a monastic guest or resident. You will be challenged, but you will be transformed on many levels. I'm not sure what you suggest I may be denying. I understand that spirituality requires sacrifice, it's hard work. We need to carve out some extra time for formal practice, but letting go means letting go of the things that aren't in alignment with our values. I used to be alone wolf but suffered some pretty bad mental health issues. Then, two years ago I started to explore how a life filled with friends might affect me. I have discovered that I have a deep need for friends. I understand how unhealthy it is to pursue enlightenment with such intensity that you deny your basic human needs. I wouldn't say that I'm woke, but I am very well established in the Green value system. In fact, two years ago, I began my transition from Orange to Green which is document in this post: here. It's sort of interesting to see how it all started with my discovery of SD and understanding that I needed to shift into Green at that particular tine in my life. If you're into SD you'll recall that each stage transcends and includes the one prior. So at Yellow, you transcend the unhealthy manifestations of Green and include the healthy ones. That means spiritual growth beyond Green does not mean you cut off your friends! That said, may no longer live in a hippie commune at Yellow, but you're not living in isolation in a cave either. I'm not saying it's not possible, but I've seen very little evidence to back this claim. It might work for Leo, but we can't assume it's because he's spiritually evolved. Leo, after all, still needs to put drugs up his ass to reach high states of consciousness. Just saying.

Agreed. Let's deconstruct this a bit. To be conscious means to be aware. When we are aware we gain insight into who we are and what we value. When we accept these truths about ourselves we can live authentically. I prefer the term "authentic" over "spiritual" because it doesn't leave much room for misinterpretation. The point I'm making here is that no-one can tell us what is spiritual or authentic because we know it in out bones. Sometimes what we learn about ourselves is less than ideal, and we just have to accept that. Maybe we learn that a certain level of attractiveness is required for a relationship to work. Your original question was: "is our desire for this "hot girl" in conflict with spirituality?" I'd rephrase that as: "is my desire for this "hot girl" in conflict my values?" The important thing is that we remain honest as we explore and that we make life decisions based on what we learn.

Ultimately, therapy is what resolved my personal issues. It's very difficult to resolve shame, regret, and self-loathing on your own because the stories we tell ourselves are so compelling and familiar. I suspect that some may be able to resolve self-esteem issues on their own, but I don't think it would be possible for most. I'd consider getting help if you remain stuck for or confused about how to heal. As an alternative, I have heard a lot of good things about the book Radical Acceptance.

Growth shows up in many forms. You can grow in relationship, career, hobbies, education, healthy, mindfulness, etc. The point is, regardless of circumstance, you can grow in at least one area. Part of authenticity is getting clear on what you value, and devoting time and energy to that. For some that may be relationships, or, it may be other things. Recall that each person has a different set of values at any given time, and there's nothing wrong with giving priority to one thing or another. Right now GREEN reflects my predominant set of values so relationships rank high in my priorities. But, I do respect differing values and opinions and acknowledge that everyone's path is unique. That said, I'm quite certain that many on this forum are in denial about their need for love and belonging. Quite frankly, I think this is unavoidable. I certainly went through it, and I see many others make the same mistake. Eventually the suffering catches up with you and you either shed your spiritual ego and embrace your human nature, or you remain trapped in misery. Yep, totally common. And yes, relationships are an accelerant for growth. There's a lot to unpack here, but well said. What I'd like to point out here is that we have limited control over the specifics of our life. External circumstances change and it's our responsibility to adapt. Sometimes growth means rising to the challenges that life presents us (a work catastrophe, loss of a loved one, health issue, etc). Other times we have more control and get to choose what we want to develop. What "the best thing" is is subject to interpretation, but the important thing is to recognize how to respond to the dynamic nature of life, and to spend our time wisely. Making friends was much easier back in the school days because we were surrounded by people our age all day long. Things change drastically when we graduate so we have to get creative and put ourselves out there more to increase our chances of success. Same here. I personally make a schedule and try to stick to it at all costs. I'm a morning person so I wake up early, do the things I can do in solitude, then use the evenings or the weekends to spend time with friends. That said, balance is a bit of a moving target so it's important to use our time wisely.

@Vision It would be interesting to see what would happen if Leo did a video on spiritual bypassing. Maybe some would snap out of it, or maybe not. People caught up in bypassing believe they are so evolved that they're impervious to the most common trap in the game. I think part of the problem is that many misunderstand what spirituality really is and others just lack honesty. I suspect that most people will fall victim to spiritual bypassing at some point or another. It almost seems a rite of passage in the western world. That said, getting unstuck is a bitch. All those things you've been avoiding add up and marching through that mountain of shit ain't no fun.

I agree that getting rid of shitty friends is a good idea. That's a stage orange mentality. Which is fine. At green, though, it might look like this: More friends more success. Less friends less success. Or maybe: More quality friends, more success. If you're really on the ball you're working on yourself while you're with friends. Interpersonal intelligence is one of the lines of development, after all. That's one of the points I'm trying to get across in this thread. Spiritual life, or personal development, is not separate your social life. You develop yourself no matter what you are doing. Spiritual practice is a 24/7 commitment.

Bro, spirituality doesn't give a shit. You're not thinking for yourself. There are no rules. There's nothing wrong with having preferences, but there are consequences. It's this way with all things. If you hold out for perfection, you may be waiting for a while. But if you take whatever comes, you may not like what you have. There's something to be said for having standards. But set them too high and your life may be empty.

@preventingdiabetes Do you know what your core beliefs are? I'd start with that. Spend some time HERE.

Exactly

I've also met people who support Trump because they are fellow narcissists. They admire him for his attainment of power.

@preventingdiabetes The important thing is to really know yourself. Get clear on all of your egoic tendencies. This is really important because it allows you to absorb theory more efficiently. Also important to understand, is that change happens slowly. Progress is often barely noticeable. This is important to notice because it will dictate the amount of theory that you read. If you read too much theory, you have a tendency to get confused and overwhelmed. That said, I don't think there's a black and white answer to your question. When you understand what I suggested above, you know what you need to work on, and you sort of lose attachment to outcome because you know that progress is not fully in your control. Theoretical books serve as references when you have questions, and other times, you simply read because you feel like it. However, I would say that if you're reading more than a chapter a day you are reading too much. Concepts need to be absorbed, applied, and internalized and that takes time.

@Lyubov Dude, I can totally relate. I put up with it for many, many years until I finally sat down with my mom and had a serious conversation with her. I simply told my mom how I felt, let her know that she was pushing me away, and made a very clear request. I told her that if she didn't comply it would put our relationship in jeopardy. In hind sight, I would not have threatened her like that, but it worked. She will still offer advice out of habit, but she catches herself and apologizes. You need to tell them exactly this. They need to know this. Also, you might want to look into the DEAR MAN technique. It's super effective in getting your point across and getting what you want without triggering the person you are targeting.

@Javfly33 You are right, if you are self-actualizing, you will rarely find others with the same interest. However, as an actualizer, you should be developing many interests: psychology, philosophy, yoga, art, traveling, exploring, meditation, social justice, health, politics, nature, social skills, learning. If you live in the right area it shouldn't be too hard to find people that share at least one or two interests with you. That said, if you don't enjoy your time with your friends it's time for some new ones. There is much more to self-actualizing than having an interest in in self-actualizing. The more you actualize, the more adaptable and accepting you are of your current environment. That's not to say you don't pursue your desires or improve the quality of your life. But you can make it in just about any situation and be fairly content