Inliytened1

Well let's let AI answer: Details on Hamas's response to the 2005 withdrawal: PA-led ceasefire endorsement (March 2005): In February 2005, PA President Mahmoud Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon declared a ceasefire to end the Second Intifada. Hamas announced it would endorse this ceasefire in March, a few months before the Israeli withdrawal was complete. Continued armed resistance: Despite the ceasefire endorsement, Hamas's military wing did not cease all attacks. In the immediate aftermath of the Israeli withdrawal in September 2005, Hamas and other militant groups fired rockets into Israel and continued to call for armed resistance. Withdrawal framed as a victory: The unilateral nature of Israel's withdrawal allowed Hamas to portray it as a victory achieved through armed resistance, rather than diplomacy. This framing bolstered Hamas's popularity, which contributed to its victory in the 2006 Palestinian legislative elections. No long-term truce: In the years following the disengagement, Hamas repeatedly proposed long-term truces to Israel in exchange for specific concessions, such as withdrawal from occupied territories or lifting the blockade. However, it did not offer one immediately following the 2005 withdrawal.

They controlled the borders but Hamas controlled the government in Gaza. Hamas could have sought peaceful means to increase the control of what came in and out but they didn't do that they immediately launched rockets.

@Lyubov If you somehow think Hamas is higher consciousness than Israel you are in for a surprise.

Everyone doesn't hate Israel.

And you seem to have a problem with the survival game War and conquest is going to exist for a long time..this is because of the different levels of consciousness that different people are at or.just their general disagreement. Jews were almost wiped out and they learned and adapted. Don't hate them for it. Hate the game. Which you aren't doing. Ever heard the saying Don't hate the player hate the game? Well it applies here. The Palestinians have the same opportunities they just put their trust in organizations like Hamas. Who by the way seemed to have agreed to a deal to return the hostages. Let's see what happens but I have little faith they will keep their word..their word is always half baked.

You are brainwashed to think the land was stolen. It was won via war. We are colonizers and thieves and zionists? Which one is it? Are zionists thieves? Look dude- the Jews have been put through enough hell to know they needed to fight and take what they want to be theirs. Just like any other nation. Just like the United States over Great Britain..just like Alexander the Great and many other leaders that took land via conquest. Stop bitching and complaining. Israel withdrew in 2005 and Hamas proceeded to pound Israel via rocket rather than seek peace. So you see things through a bias lens. Stop letting the left feed you stuff without taste testing the food. Some food needs to be spit out.

Some people are born in the wrong body. Allowing it is probably the best thing about it not the worst.

If you like authoritarianism. I don't like giving complete power to one person it is basically monarchy. Thats all it is. Now whether you think the US democracy is corrupt because of the politicians you might not be so far off.

Glitches in the matrix.

Well said. Yeah the West really rose after WW2. Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Churchill. Those were men of wisdom that built it. What we have now in the West is an embrassment. But you're right there is too much custom and thus stage red/blue for the Middle East. Israel is trying to rise above it but is constantly being dragged down.

@Breakingthewall what do you think of the conflict considering the history?

I disagree it's just that you have terrorist organizations running your governments.

Well in 2005 israel withdrew and by 2007 Hamas gained control of the government but started launching rockets as soon as Israel withdrew. Yes Israel still controlled the border but Hamas did not take a peaceful approach after Israel withdrew. They could have sought peaceful means but they didn't. They just wanted to crush Israel which led up to the 2023 attack. So no I don't feel like they are innocent at all.

Need i remind of you of 2005?

You are assuming this is the case. Maybe they just realized that being passive ends up dead. And they wanted their own state. It wasn't a matter of taking out what the Nazis did to them on Palestine. They just never wanted to be in that position again.

I never said they weren't. I said Israel was being demonized on this forum. They have every right. But don't complain about the bloodshed. And don't think for a second that the Arabs wouldn't seek to take what Israel has.

No they just fought for their own state.

If you really want to tell the whole story no Israel had to fight for everything they have. You don't crucify Hamas for fighting for what they want..which is to allow the prolonged bloodshed by refusing to surrender. It is this kind of violence that Israel rose up against. So don't hate the hated.

Well that hadn't happened (Palestinians being forced out) when Hamas attacked. This doesn't justify anything just because they thought they were going to be forced out. If that were to happen -and it's not what is happening- and Bibi went back on his words - then I would see things differently. But also remember that Ben Givir may fear that not taking further action would end in Israel's demise by allowing Hamas to rise.

The argument clearly here is that it's ethnic cleansing. And I don't see it. Israel was attacked and then they want their hostages returned. Their end goal isn't to get rid of the Palestinians. The argument on Palestinian rights is another discussion. But that is different from ethnic cleansing. Hamas is continuing the war just as much because they refuse to give the hostages back and surrender. If Israel let that slide it would be a sign to give Hamas hope to rebuild and attack them again. And they have a right to get their hostages back. That is the perspective they are coming from.

Hitler would win if israel didn't learn from it and sat back like weaklings. No one else is going to keep them in existence but themselves.

He should give me some examples first rather than just a blanket claim but regardless of course the Jews have been persecuted by many peoples but what does this have to do with the conversation. Is he saying i shouldn't support the US becsuse they are backing Israel? That's absurd.

Where are you getting anyone hates the Palestinians? No one hates anyone. My argument was against the claims of genocide. Hamas attacked on Oct 7th not the jews. Are you OK man? You seem to be getting emotional and attacked @PurpleTree pretty hard. Take it easy. The discussion was based on the posts in other threads where Israel has been demonized for what they are doing but no one is demonizing Hamas here even though they are enabling the deaths of Palestinians because they refuse to return the hostages.

I am Jewish..

Time to pay the piper or abuse of power?