Consilience

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Posts posted by Consilience

  1. Posted

    1 hour ago, axiom said:

    Truth is not needed. This is a projection of the self seeking to sustain itself by imagining it is not whole.

    You’re misunderstanding, deeply. It’s very clear your caught in delusion, based on these posts at least. You’re still trying to apply linear rationality to that which is totally beyond the intellect.

    Like I said, I wish you well on your path, and hope you can face both your life and your death with a sincere clarity about what is true. 

  3. Posted · Edited by Consilience

    6 minutes ago, axiom said:

    Nothing is needed. There are no methods. Nothing is verifiable. Nothing works. 

    All of these ideas assume some form of control over outcomes is possible.

    Truth is needed. And if what is true is that truth is not realized, then that is what‘s true and therefore truth is what’s needed. Deluding yourself has serious consequences, these consequences are seen particularly if rebirth is integrated and understood. And no, no one is reborn, yet life and suffering remaining until ignorance is actually uprooted. 

    I wish you well on your path.

  5. Posted

    25 minutes ago, axiom said:

    @Consilience Because a spiritual path usually becomes an attachment in and of itself. It reinforces the idea of the individual, and of being able to do something to get somewhere.

    That‘s a huge misconception. There is most certainly a path, and there is most certainly no one walking it. When this is seen, deeply, it is understood why we should keep walking. 

  6. Posted

    40 minutes ago, axiom said:

     

    Maybe! Personally I think real awakening happens more readily to those with no spiritual path whatsoever. 

    Why do you think that?

     

    1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

    @Consilience What do you think of people who claim to channel Jesus/Yeshua? Have you ever felt/looked into that?

    I havent looked into it actually. Im open to the possibility but as always, self deception is a huge risk. 

  7. Posted

    42 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

    That is not correct.

    Neo-advaitans and Buddhists have legit no-self realizations. However that is not the same as God-Realization and infinite consciousness.

    This is not correct.

    Neo Advaita and the legitimate Buddhist contemplative path are incomparable.

    Infinite consciousness and God is discussed ad nauseam in Mahayana Buddhism. Look into the 10 stages of a Bodhisattva in the Avatamsaka Sutra. God realization is still not Awakening, real Awakening is so far beyond what this forum talks about it’s both hilarious and depressing to read.

    Real Awakening demands lifetimes, lifetimes, of practice and purification, both of which cannot be substituted with using psychedelics. At the moment of death, all of the past God realized states will be worth less than dust compared to the consequences of karma.

  8. Posted

    52 minutes ago, Matthew85 said:

    @Consilience What is your perspective on the realization that there aren't other beings? You are the only conscious being that exists? Have you reached this insight in any of your awakenings? 

    It‘s true, and yet actions, behaviors, and even thoughts of others do have consequences. When all beings are seen as one, one sees the gift of realization for another.

  11. Posted · Edited by Consilience

    37 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    For me it sounds like that you give your authority over yourself to another. there is no other. there is only you, you are the Life. it has to flow with absolute freedom

    That’s not how the successful teacher student relationship works. As you yourself mentioned, there is no other. So the teacher is merely lighting the latent possibility within yourself, reflecting back what is possible as both you and as no one at all. The teacher is a pure emptiness embodied, which is why they are trust worthy enough to teach. When there is no one behind the eyes of the guru, there is literally no one to give your authority over to, which is precisely why you can trust them! Finding the right teacher is difficult, often only appearing until the student is actually ready to wake up.

    37 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    It means: i don't trust in me. So i trust in you. I'm absolutely trustworthy, since I'm the only source of trust. There can't be other. Someone could inspire you, but after that, you are alone

    You are not trustworthy unless you have complete integrity in the relative domain. Don’t confuse absolute trust with relative trust. Relative trust is the metric you can use to measure whether you’ve actually realized absolute trust.

    To truly trust, you must be completely fearless. To be completely fearless, you’d need to know what you are. To know what you are would mean you are awakened. Are you awake? Are you actually trustworthy, or are you just bullshitting yourself by conflating absolute and relative truths? 

  12. Posted

    3 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

    The second could be. Also it's just my opinion. but in my opinion adjusting the foot to fit the shoe is the opposite of enlightenment

    Finding the right teacher is almost a requirement to actually make it. Find any enlightened teacher that made it all alone. It’s true only YOU can become enlightened, but the support of a teacher or community is extremely powerful, especially given most minds are utterly untrustworthy, even minds that have the drive for awakening. 

  14. Posted · Edited by Consilience

    21 minutes ago, Jodistrict said:

    Shinzen also use to teach people with conditions like AIDS, how to live with pain.  He also taught strong determination sitting, where we would sit until the pain was unbearable and there was a breakthrough from pain to only feeling sensations and movements.   Shinzen got interested in Indian Spirituality and he actually did a sun dance with a North American tribe, where you dance in the sun for several days and at the end they put two knives in your breasts and hang you from a tree.  I haven't heard any other teachers talk about pain.  Pain is the strongest signal that convinces us that the illusion of reality is true.  Have these other teachers reached the level where they can turn pain into feelings of sensations and movement, where there is no suffering ?

     

    100%.

    There’s a video where he talks about a 2 month Mahasi retreat where there was a 4 hour strong determination sit everyday. Imagine 60 days, 4 hours of SDS. Unimaginable. Actually quite dangerous to the body, but still. The mind that comes out of those 2 months will be on a completely different level. 

    Glorifying pain is not the objective, Buddha intentionally taught the middle way. But considering how much aversion the modern mind has towards pain, the modern mind that’s addicted to a myriad of endless pleasures, comforts, and distractions, working directly with pain is enormously powerful. No other teacher talks about how to work with pain strategically/effectively. The only other teachers I know who’s worked with pain like Shinzen are Soryu while he trained in Rinzai or Ralston through his martial study. 
     

    The goal is not pain for the sake of pain, but learning the ultimately reality/nature of pain, which is done by paying attention to it, deeply, ie mindfulness.

  15. Posted

    1 hour ago, Spiral Wizard said:

    I definitely admire his indifference towards this fluctuation but I’ve also heard other teachers say that there is a stage of enlightenment beyond that where there is no more fluctuation, just firmly rooted in the ground of enlightenment 24/7. 

     

    What do you think?

    Shinzen once told a story of a Zen master who was on a Japanese talk show. The interviewer asked the roshi, what is Enlightenment? The roshi responded with something along the lines “I guess you could say enlightenment is the passing away of the distinction between enlightenment and non enlightenment.” 
     

    There is a stage of enlightenment beyond the need for enlightenment to be any particular state,  because it‘s recognized that what is true, is true no matter what state, and has been true even before one began meditating.

    Also don’t let Shinzen fool you, even his “normal” or “non-enlightened” states are way beyond 99.9% of the population. When a being lowers suffering to that degree and has that much clarity, even if one is not in a deep state there’s a dramatic difference. 

  16. Posted

    7 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

    Every path is energetic by that logic.

    But zen is the path of awareness predominantly.

    Kriya is a path of learning to manipulate various energies in the body and outside of body. 

    They are very different in many ways.

    I think im being fair in saying this.

    I disagree. It’s true Zen isn’t about manipulating energies in the same way Kriya is, but Zen emphasizes movement, riding the ox, letting the life energy move you heavily. There’s a quote by one of the great Zen masters Hakuin,

    “Meditation in the midst of activity is a thousand times superior to meditation in stillness.”

    Have you meet a living Zen master who openly transmits? Enormous, ENORMOUS, amounts of energy. 

    And no, not all paths emphasize this energy element by this logic. Theravada Buddhism or Christina Mysticism do not, for example. 

  17. Posted

    Well they say it takes one to know one. Takes someone who‘s enlightened to know another enlightened being. If you can’t see the unimaginable wokeness of Shinzen, well… no amount of internet conversation will do it. Only practice and being woke would :P 

     

    Also Renzai Zen is an energetic path. Shinzen talks about the whole “Zen bounce” for a reason. Zen teaches people how to unlock enormous reservoirs of energy so anyone thinking Zen is dry, tame, boring, stale, hasn’t trained in Zen, or hasn’t trained with an authentic Zen lineage holder. 

  18. Posted

    5 hours ago, Salvijus said:

    The heat and conflict energy is going up guys...

    Here's a simple argument that u can't win. Shinzen is still meditating and trying to go deeper. Sadhguru is already done looong ago. 

    The end.

    That’s a bad argument man. It assumes If someone stops trying to go deeper they’ve made it. It also assumes Shinzen is still trying to go deeper which Im not even sure where that idea comes from. 

  19. Posted · Edited by Consilience

    2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

    Lol everybody is triggered over who's favorite guru is more conscious :D

    But to be fair, as far as i know, shinzen hasnt reached the final goal yet even, he still meditates and goes deeper. Where sadhguru has already reached the final depths of consciouness and full liberation few lifetimes ago. And he's a mystic, which goes beyond the ego dissolution and buddhist's enlightenment. Even if shinzen reached a final goal of buddhism, he would still be less conscious because there are other facets of consciouness beyond ego dissolution, that's the area of mystism where sadhguru resides. buddha and sadhguru would make a more interesting comparison for me.

    Im just beying fair by saying this. No bias here.

     

    It’s clear you’ve drinken the actualized koolaid regarding Buddhist awakening. You should check out the Flower Garland Sutra if you want to see just how far the Buddhist path really goes. The sutra talks about omniscience, God, infinity, and the unfathomable depths of Awakening. Actualized.org as a whole has absolutely no clue what it’s talking about regarding Buddhism. Secondly, Shinzen’s not even a Buddhist. 
     

    I think your bias is that you’re speaking from belief and ignorance regarding what you project to be the final goal of awakening. I mean same here, it’s good to acknowledge our biases. From what Ive studied, Shinzen teaches way more no bullshit, straight to the heart of the matter teachings than Sadhguru. There’s a reason Sadhguru appeals to the masses. The masses aren’t interested in true liberation, it’s not something that sells well at all. 

  20. Posted

    2 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

    Interesting! Didn’t really consider that. Do you think there no use in transmissions? 

    I think there's definitely uses. Soryu Forall uses transmission and it's had a significant effect on my spiritual growth. I was just meaning it's hard to base a teacher's level of Awakening on whether they're using transmission or not. 

     

    3 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

    There seem to be very different transmissions. I wouldn’t be surprised of some are useless temporary highs and others actually help you get to self realization faster. 

    I’ve been on shaktipat intensives and spoke with people who’ve been doing light/RASA and other transmissions for more than a year. Allegedly it was speeding up their progress significantly

    Very interesting. Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if certain beings benefit more from transmission than others. I also am inclined to agree that yes some may no more than useless highs while others are highly intelligent, energetic forms of communication/reconfiguration/transformation. This is based on my own experience plus yes hearing reports from others. BUT! I also see how this could lead someone into the trap of relying on a guru figure, or a guru figure abusing power. 

  21. Posted

    7 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

    Why is that? 

    The same reason Peter Ralston does. Because they don't want people to turn the work into being about the teacher. I've heard Ralston say he could get people stoned, but stopped because too many people were not taking the work seriously enough and getting distracted/mistaken with what it was really about. 

  22. Posted

    4 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

    I was told that it’s possible to realize emptiness and get to the first stage of enlightenment without activating the kundalini energy which means that the LOVEBLISS aspect is missing. 

    It makes sense to me that the is the divine father (truth, recognition, emptiness, etc.) and the divine mother (kundalini, love, energy, etc.) aspect. 

     

    I'm not sure. In the Advaita Vedanta school, truth IS bliss. I've had experiences of pure emptiness being blissful, but this bliss is very different than the types of bliss from kundalini, feelings of love/energy. The bliss of truth is always present. 

    But kundalini, feelings of love, energy and bliss, for sure can be side effects from this work. 

  23. Posted

    1 minute ago, Spiral Wizard said:

    @Consilience I somewhat agree. No doubt, from shinzen’s point of view he’s overflowing with joy but wouldn’t you agree that his  demeanor, radiance, and vibrancy don’t make that too obvious? I’m not saying this means he’s less enlightened. Frank Yang actually said if the kundalini juice is still pouring out of you, the process isn’t finished yet. He and Shinzen explained that once the 10th Oxherding picture is reached you become extremely ordinary for outsiders unless they know what to look for. 

    My inquire does not aim to judge anyone. I’m genuinely curious about understanding how different paths lead to different results. Because there certainly is a difference between different traditions and enlightened masters. 

    Well maybe it's because I've done a few retreats with him now, but to me he seems very quirky, light hearted, and joyous, but also as you mentioned, extremely ordinary. So yes I can see how some would view that demeanor as flat. As you also mentioned though, once you know what to look for it becomes obvious how far Shinzen has really gone. 

    Different paths do lead to different results yes, but the ultimate aim of the path, Enlightenment, the Truth, is synonymous, which is what is most important. At least to me. 

  24. Posted

    2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

    Each are doing good work of raising awareness.

    Agreed.

    But as I said, I've had private conversations which give me the impression Shinzen is beyond Sahdguru. At the bear minimum, Shinzen is older and therefore has more training hours under his belt. The only reason I'm defending him here is that some noobie reading this thread could misinterpret Shinzen as not being a good source of information based on some of these comments when in reality, he's an enormously powerful source of information and inspiration. 

    And again, unlike Sadhguru, all of Shinzen's main teachings are free in video and written format. His main teachings also cut to the heart of Enlightenment in unusually precise language, and provide a very basic framework of how to bridge practice with living life. I haven't studied with Sadhguru one on one, but from what is publicly available and popular, he is very vague, flashy, and seems to make it about him more than Shinzen, who makes it about the practice, the work. 

    But again, I recognize both are doing good work in terms of raising awareness and that's an important acknowledgment.