Consilience

He really is dude. He really is. Of course he has no reason to flaunt about it or compare himself to others. Way beyond all of that.

Shinzen is overflowing with joy, not sure what you guys are talking about. Shinzen is definitely comparable to Sadhguru. Not only that, but the precision from which he speaks is radically more advanced than anything Sadhguru has to offer, and it’s all free and on YouTube or in manuals. Shinzen’s UM system is a path to God for those who understand what he’s pointing to. Shinzen is intentionally meek, doesn’t seek to accumulate endless followers, or wealth. He intentionally limits how much he “transmits” and to the masses, this will be mistaken as “not as enlightened,” or “Zen kills the heart.” Which is particularly funny given that the Zen Master’s ultimate goal is to walk the path of the Bodhisattva, which is the most intense, heart wrenchingly compassionate heart centered path any being can walk. You’re literally vowing to continue being reincarnated until all beings are Awakened which is an impossible goal, yet they strive, endlessly and eternally. Should be noted though Shinzen isn’t a Zen teacher. At the end of the day, Shinzen wont resonate with everyone, but from my own biased experience, I would put Shinzen as being well beyond Sadhguru in level of Awakening. But Ive heard stories about and had one on one conversations with Shinzen that give me that impression. Dude is actually insanely woke, way more than you’d ever expect watching his YouTube videos.

You should check out the Monastic Academy for the Preservation of Life on Earth. The head teacher Soryu Forall trained in Rinzai Zen for a decade and has studied in other traditions as well. Doesn’t teach Zen, but very Zen inspired training environment.

Yes for sure, in the same way our true nature is excruciating pain and torment. “fundamentally it seems to me that all those feelings are appearances in and as true nature.” Yes exactly. And noticing their nature is crucial to breaking through into that which never changes yet could only be described as truly infinite.

@Razard86 Maybe I misinterpreted what you were describing but if the bliss is gone now, or if the bliss was a qualitative experience in any way shape or form, it’s not your true nature. And your true nature was what you were talking about.

If the bliss you discovered is transitory, it is not the bliss Rupert is talking about when he describes our true nature as bliss. Any blissful feelings, mind states, or anything related to perception/experience/qualia is not our true nature. Yet what you’re describing is certainly possible as a default *state* through rigorous practice, but don’t confuse this with your true nature.

@kieranperez It was a pleasure. I wish you a fruitful and auspicious journey in the monastery! We met up in Portland Oregon. Really nice timing too as it was right after I got back from training at MAPLE.

Because the nature of your identification with self is intimately tied with your clinging and craving to body, hence why you would experience fear if confronted with physical death. Long term investigation of these sensations obliterates and dissolves this false identification through this relentless observation. This is not even accounting for the beautiful, energetic, tranquil, and intrinsically rewarding states of mind available by begin to observe the body with real mindfulness. Self inquiry is a perfectly valid approach as well. But to dismiss the rational for vipassana body scanning would be to misunderstand the rational.

That's only about an hour and a half away according to google maps... If they are letting visitors come I would really love making a trip to come meetup. I have met Peter, multiple times. I ended up doing the 2 week CI last fall. It was incredible and really set the foundation for how my time at MAPLE has been. And yes, Peter has an insane presence. During one of his q&a sessions he ended up just no talking for like 25 mins or so transmitting in silence... Still processing. I remember asking him about the fear of death and he turned to me, looked me square in the eyes and said "You need to understand - You will die." and finished the question. But what was most profound was with that single sentence, he seemed to cut through this part of the mind that couldn't believe in its own inhalation, as though I wasn't really convinced one day would be it. Since then my relationship to death has subtlety but significantly changed. Yeah, Peter is the real deal. Yes. Apparently Harada Roshi has been referred to as the "Nuclear Reactor" of Zen because of his energy... LOL. Soryu is as masculine as Peter, as funny as Peter, but I suppose because he's almost 30 year younger, there's an energy about Soryu I didn't experience with Peter. There's also a compassionate wrathfulness about Soryu. He REALLY cares about the destruction of life on the planet, yet also understands the Absolute and is completely unafraid of death, and the destruction of life on the planet. There's been recent controversies around how Soryu teaches regarding existential risk and his "angry" communication style. Many people can't psychologically handle how he dismantles worldviews and shows all of the ways we're bullshitting ourselves. From what I understand, I've only experienced a fraction of what Soryu has to offer in terms of the intensity. Hoping he finds a way to teach without holding back. From what I'm reading, you'd probably really like Soryu. Technically though, he never received transmission from Harada so cannot formally teach Zen. However, the training structure, style, and vibe is very Zen influenced. Yeah man super excited to hear you're pursuing the monastic path. It's truly incredible. It's good that you've seen what a healthy community looks like and therefore can determine whether Great Vow is a good fit for long term training. I imagine it will be though; I've heard nothing but good things. From what I know of you, yeah your path will go deep entering into an intensive training environment. God speed brother.

Please let me know which one! Ill be back in Oregon soon. My time at MAPLE has been utterly profound. Soryu is like the bodhisattva version of Peter Ralston in his younger years. My practice has enormously deepened and Ive never had more clarity about my direction in life. It’s also incredible how healthy the community here is. I don’t think Ive ever encountered such a large number of genuinely trust worthy people. Definitely still a growing, maturing sangha and we aren’t perfect, but the values here are spot on. Integrity, responsibility, kindness, compassion, and a focus on awakening are all pillars.

I havent, correct. Only NN-DMT. But my goals aren’t reach the highest state as possible. My goals are complete enlightenment, which transcends 5MeO. The qualitative reconfiguration offered by 5MeO is in principle, the same as what is offered through other psychedelics it’s just thay the degree, depth, and content differ. So even though Ive never tried (which its still on my to do list btw), the integration lessons would remain the same - 1. to permanently raise one’s state requires enormous manual practice. 2. Enlightenment is ultimately not about states, it‘s dramatically more radical.

This. Real solipsism is infinite unity and interconnectivity. The same energy that moves our breath moves the stars. The same light “behind” the eyes of another is our very nature. It is beautiful and in no way lonely, when the mind stops its endless fabricating and interpreting, and instead truth is seen directly and clearly.

@kieranperez I should have also added a 4th point which is many people who dont succeed with meditation also aren’t working with a high quality teacher.

That’s true. If she can transmit the fear of non-existence/death through the pointings, it could be very helpful. It just ‘seems’ as though most minds end up adopting beliefs rather than seeing clearly. But then if those minds were to sit alone quietly for hours on end they’d just be distracted, lost in fabrication and delusion. Which of course is not separate from the truth yet the paradox being there is no recognition of the truth, nor the recognition of the truth of the lack of recognizing the truth.

Same ol neo advaita dribble. Not helpful for those wanting to reach authentic realization/liberation, a decent description of ultimate reality for those who are awake. Just one of many neo advaita youtube channels, almost like fast food spirituality.

It’s very similar to the do nothing technique but ever so slightly more intentional, in my experience. You’re meditating on the nature of mind/on awareness itself without the mind wandering in distraction. And given that “awareness” or “consciousness” are the gateways to God, eventually the mind starts to disintegrate in the spaciousness. However, standard mindfulness actually does lead to the same place but from a different angle. In Shinzen’s system he talks about this spaciousness of a theme perception can take on. As we continue to apply mindfulness, experience itself becomes feather light and paper thin, Shinzen calls this spaciousness. In this way, perception itself is seen as being non other than awareness. Each route may be beneficial depending on various mental factors at the time of practice.

Mahamudra/Dzogchen type practices are my go to. But after a certain point, even vipassana, or jhana practices work, and even further, one just starts walking around seeing the God like beauty in everything, everyone, across all states, even pain and emotional distress. Vital at this point to keep going.

From what I can tell, yes sober meditation is more effective than meditating while on psychedelics if our goal is training the mind, recognizing truth while sober. Meditating while on psychedelics may provide a deeper relative state and higher short term understanding. Please note this is specific to where Im at. Meditating on psychedelics may be exactly what a noobie needs to jump start their sober practice but for an advanced meditator, it seems unlikely. As far as healing, yes absolutely. But there comes a point on the healing journey where healing is no longer a limiting bottleneck for deepening one’s awakening. We’ll always have healing to do, we’ll always have “growing up” to do. So in that sense, psychedelics could theoretically always have a place on the path. The huge error is believing them to be a viable path to an authentic Awakening in contrast with healing.

Yes, obviously. Ive taken multiple biochemistry classes in university discussing genetics, one focused on molecular genetics. I have a bachelors of science in nutritional science. The point is that even though, for example, a being on the path to enlightenment may have a certain genetic makeup based on their mother and father, this doesn’t mean the mother and father are on the path, or ready for the path. What goes into taking on and succeeding with enlightenment is so much more multifaceted than to reduced it to some materialistic framework like “genetics.” Not only is this a gross simplification within the materialistic framework, completely ignoring things like epigenetics, volition, will, the fact that the brain is the most malleable organ in the human body, but it ignores other possibilities, substances not yet discovered through scientific investigation, such as chakras, the energy body, etc. The point is when attempting to explain away spiritual success with the “genetics” argument is, when rationally and clearly examined, completely illogical and nothing more than an egoic defense mechanism. Do genetics play a role? Yes obviously. The question is to what extent and what are the precise factors to awakening and what constitutes the availability of these factors? Claiming genetics as the basis is a misunderstanding of these factors and marred in lack of direct experience as well as an openmindedness about the possibilities of what creates the experience of being a human at all.

This is actually a good point. Totally obvious too… not sure how I never thought of this or no one’s mentioned it haha. It’s wild how incessantly the ego will go to avoid spiritual practice. Also wild how arrogant the ego is to think it understands spiritual practice without actually having dived in and explored. Imagine an undergrad freshman biology major thinking it knows more than a biologist with a PhD claiming that of this study and experimentation is useless, a waste of time, and won’t go anywhere towards understanding biology.

The same way I can doubt scientific materialism but “believe” in qualia. One is belief, one is direct experience. Direct experience of past lives, direct experience of the moment by moment birth death/expansion contraction process of a self being created by mind along with the recognition that this activity of mind is not contingent on this physical body. This activity of mind is the “mind of god”, utterly beyond body or the contents of mind; it is a western fantasy, belief system, system of indoctrination that death means this mind ceases. The individual self “ceases” as all memories, feelings, sensations of me and mine vanish, but this is not the mind, this is not the context out of which existence appeared. That context is unaffected by physical death. Studying dependent origination provides a framework for why a single death would not end the cycle of birth and death. Direct experience verifies it. Edit: also where did I say I doubt genetics exactly? This is a complex topic, way more nuanced than “I believe in genetics” or “I doubt genetics.”

Quite deeply in a way, however still have lifetimes to fully awaken. Direct experience is where the answer comes from though. Loneliness as it’s cognized by the human mind is of the nature of God, as is everything, but itself cannot compare to God’s absolute nature. The absolute just dwarfs any and all defilements of mind, all suffering, there is only peace free from elaboration, totally lucid, infinite, and empty.

Egoic projection

Where did this understanding come from?

In the beginning, for some beings, myself included, yes. But after a certain point, one outgrows the need for frequent tripping. For example, the last dozen or so of my trips have left me with the intrinsic understanding that I would have been better off spending those 8-12 hours meditating. This originates from the clear seeing that meditation liberates, uproots, cultivates, purifies, and clarifies, and while psychedelics do as well during the trip, the shifts in consciousness do not last. That and as has been mentioned elsewhere, state shifting is ultimately a dead end, even with manual practice. There are other reasons besides awakening to want to transform the mind though into higher states, such as bodhichitta. Part of the practice is becoming extremely intimate with the 1st noble truth. So yes, the whole point is to abide in this very discomfort aka suffering! It’s amazing how Leo totally missed this point. This suffering is precisely what motivates us practice harder. It helps though having good instructions and learning how to actually generate wholesome states of mind like happiness, compassion, metta, peace. This is why I often recommend The Mind Illuminated, because no other book or method helped me more with developing extremely powerful wholesome states while sober. You’ll probably discover other spatial qualities to suffering as your practice matures, besides a single knot. Yes, usually contractions in the energy body are origin points of suffering, clinging/craving/aversion. Psychedelics are so energetically overwhelming they blow apart the energy body which is both their strength and danger. This infinite spacial expanse of the energy body helps breakdown egoic mind patterns and identification. It’s hard for me to vouch for 30-60 minutes at this point. Personally, Ive gone on 7 meditation retreats in the last 2.5 years and do formal practice 4-5 hours per day through silent sitting, chanting, and mindful eating at the community Im living with (Monastic Academy for the Preservation of Life on Earth). Ive kind of completely thrown myself into the practice and attribute my success with it because of these efforts. But even before MAPLE, I was doing retreats and meditating 2 hours/day. Most people who don’t succeed with meditation either 1) dont go on retreats, 2) don’t have good instructions for techniques, or 3) don’t practice hard enough to see results and usually all 3. I would disagree with this. Meditation offers immediate relief. Ive observed this with many beginners I help as well as in my own experience. I was practice meditation 1 hour/day for around 1.5 years before ever trying psychedelics and therefore, had a strong practice before ever experiencing truly radical, god like states of consciousness.