Mu_

Ya, but there are lots including Leo and I who are saying what your saying. There is no globe, or photons, theres just the one looking you could say, but when this is understood, globe, photons are very interesting as a experience. Whats this looker, looking at? Other stuff not it? NO! An experience of what, of YOU of course. Photons have never been photons, globe has never been globe. You see at this point even to say no globe, or photons, is a rejection of "You". The looker is the globe, the looker is the photons, the photons are the looker (because photos are the looker), the globe is the looker (because the looker is the globe). Its, Now, Is, All, you, You, i, I. Do you really think there is a separate looker watching a separate movie reel, this sounds like duality no?

You really think a typed response will give you that? That aside, its been said that there's always been a back and forth, perhaps one up man-ship between Hindu and Buddhism, with debates going back and forth for hundreds of years. Humans love this stuff, even if Hindu's meant the same thing with the Great Brahnma as Buddha meant with a place of no foothold. Buddha's text and Hindu texts are unknown to be a direct source of what the original awakeners have said, but a mishmash of human individuals over time adding and subtracting and reediting and reevaluating the intent of each word, saying and implication. Again, maybe your to emeshed in the jargon, which is not a bad thing, but it may take more effort to unravel then just seeking out someone who you regard as more awake then you and perhaps to the degree you think these pointers mean, and listen to their advice without hesitation. See the fundamental difference that "i think" you are getting hooked up is a notion that there is wholeness devoid of stuff its not. Like some sort of non-ness that is surrounded by "other stuff", perhaps "false stuff". And perhaps in this non-ness/wholeness, it will be the Truth of what is, and from this location, whats not will be seen and perhaps could be felt is Above this other "false stuff". You see what Leo and I have been pointing to is that the neither empty nor form (or could equally be said, form is emptiness and emptiness is form) is The Case Right Now. Now. Now. Now. All the stuff you call, or called senses, have never been senses. All the "other" people and locations, were never the inherent case to begin with, Its always been neither empty nor form. You, hahaha, never was form or empty. Full stop.

@tatsumaru You don't see it, but what you are looking for is the same as that which Leo and I (and probably others on this forum) are trying to point you towards. It just seems like your interpretations of your lineages pointers and language is seeing our words in a way that means one thing to your lineage and is meaning another to us and as such you think and interpret random things. Thats why it just may be best to seek out someone you regard as more awake on these matters then yourself, who speaks the same lingo, it just may be easier for what you seek. Your last long story about the monk is a story pointing out obstacles that may arise along the path of finding "Truth". I disagree with none of it. But that doesn't mean it means something useful for everyone looking for the Truth. It may be a story with pointers that are just causing you confusion and as such, the story and pointers are a barrier, a mental story to get lost in, to forever be on the path with. I don't know honestly.

Sounds like your in the wrong forum then. This is all a lineage thing and it sounds like to me your very much in it. As such it just may be your path at this time and it would be best to seek out someone who you considered awake in such matters and to follow their guidance. Correct me if I'm wrong in such thinking, but do you think you are learning much here or just telling others they are not seeing it "your lineages" way.

I feel like the pot is calling the kettle black here. "Because I am not interested in assuming what is as much as letting go of what it is not." So you think wholeness already, is full of stuff called "what is not".

@tatsumaru Oh ya I have, but why not also try entertaining the idea that there's not, no joke, try it.

Very wise, however don't get lost in "your beliefs" of what others intentions are, or lost in the ideas and labels of your own. Like I said, its all the same in the end and even now. What you perceive as wrong framing and idea's in others, while believing your correct framing is actually just a mental game, they are all idea's in the end, and even now. When you see this, you will have a great laugh.

@tatsumaru Also the notion that there are 6 sense is still belief, its not direct experience and that the black hole experience you speak of is just metaphorically so, words right, to empty ones mind is to let go of the concepts of experience, including labels of so called 6 sense and beliefs about them and the knower of them. Also If eternal mind is empty then now is empty mind..... hmmm

@tatsumaru Also don't narrow down Love/Bliss/Ecstacy to human emotion sense categories. This would be a mistake so to say

@tatsumaru What your calling wholeness is the same as what Leo is referring to as Oneness, so in that sense your debating semantics. There's still a lot you don't understand and I think shin may be pointing some of that. Love/Bliss/Ecstacy of its own accord may be one of those things which you have not awakened much or at all to. The emptying of mind is to see the lack of opposites, its just another way of understanding such. There are perhaps infinite paths to understanding this stuff so to say, don't get to caught up in your lineage. It may even be wise to be open minded, drop what you've learned and take a dive into other "paths", experiment, it could be just what you need to round out awakening.

To live a life so to say. Why else did you come into a body.

@Zion I think this is fundamentally the wrong way to look at and approach this notion. For starters it almost sounds like you’ve read about a map point or a what do that leads to something called waking up. And your using this imaginary map point to the figure out how you can make it happen more or faster. You see desire isn’t an issue, certain ones will always remain so to say, they just may no longer be issues or cause issues to you or others negatively. However yes, sometimes it is desire and it’s suffering that leads one to look into desire and it’s usefulness, but this is a organic thing. and with this sometimes the mechanism of identity is revealed as well and it’s sometimes thorniness in living.

Careful not to get caught up In imaginary questions. Like are you lacking hunger, are you lacking fame, are you lacking thirst, are you lacking someone else, are you lacking living, are you lacking love.

Are they any different.

What is the meaning of life.

What is the meaning of this sentence.

I know. A lot of this doesn’t make sense. Especially confusing when no around you understands you. It’s ok, don’t blame them, no ones fault really, not a good use of our energy right

Hi. Hello. Can you hear me. What do I sound like in your head. Hello. Do you hear me. Magic isn’t it. You can hear me.

How long was your day. 300 meters? 14 conversations? 3 shits, 1 egg McMuffin, and painful conversation at work? Was it warm or cold or a bit of I’m not sure. Do you remember it all, the steps walked, the conversational thoughts inside, how many times you breathed. What exactly do you remember? All of it...surely not. Half of it.... unlikely. 1/100th.... maybe you can’t know how much or what you forgot. Hmmmm so maybe you or I don’t know so much about who we are and everyone else.

Worth at least watching the first minute. Says a lot to dispel a number of traps the mind gets into on "the path".

Is Top on the other end of Bottom, In on the other side of Out, Now before Later or slightly After Before.

More prepared you’v become for these next ones. Wont be fooled this time. Looking intently.

Do you notice your heart beat as you read this. Did you try to find it just now. Was it missing.

@Girzo ya maybe it’s not for you. So where do you feel like things are at for you out of curiosity. You gave a interesting response to javfly33. Also If you’ve done cold showers growing up of course it will be normal. My advice was more about doing something to push into uncomfortability with an intent just to observe and appreciate the sensations themselves. Perhaps the mystery and miracle and even what the fuck, this sucks of them, hahaha. But to still go forward anyways. Also, sometimes just going into society again if you’ve become kinda detached or hermitic and observing what comes up without judgment is another good thing in a in between phase. It’s sometimes easy to make society and what goes on collectively and individually a new problem.

@Arzola @kieranperez it’s good to be careful who you trust and put your faith in. However if it rings true and comes from a killers mouth, it still may be valuable. Plus no one here knows if he’s a cult leader or not. It’s just stories. Just like many think Leo is a cult leader but he doesn’t appear to be from our experience most likely.