tenta

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Posts posted by tenta

  1. Posted

    49 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

    You just answered “no” to my question, which is fine. Each of us is where we are at.

    (and I never said you need to go vegan to be open and expand. You are adding stuff in. I’m not even vegan for goodness sake.)

    I asked you if me questioning a method (going vegan) means I am not open to expanding and being more open, then you say to this that this means I'm not

  2. Posted

    Just now, Roy said:

    If YOU were paying attention you'd realize I never elaborated or put forth any position or argument about carnism.

    My first post was literally a statement that, "Humans who eat meat exist. Accept their existence." That was it.

    Your reaction was to project a conclusion onto me that I think it's ok that animals are slaughtered for food, then implied "people like me" support slavery and don't like black people ------------>

    If you're saying eating meat is bad, but just want to accept it, his slavery analogy is not false because the same argument could be said about slavery.

  3. Posted

    2 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

    Engaging in these thoughts stories, debates and demanding “proof” against one’s view is a distraction. It protects one’s attachment and identity.

    The question you need to ask is if you want to expand your capacity for empathy and love. If you answer “yes”, you will need to surrender and let go of some beliefs to allow this expansion. This will be uncomfortable at times. If you answer “no” then you will stay within a contraction and continue to debate and argue with others to protect and maintain that contracted belief construct.  

    If I enter your contracted realm of debate, it will only serve to re-enforce that contraction. You are showing no signs of curiosity, openness or willingness to expand. 

    By going vegan, even if I am not given evidence that one person going vegan prevents cruelty, that would be expanding and being more open? I am just asking you questions and pointed out that your analogies are biased

    You can expand your empathy, but if you aren't finding evidence a method is effective then question it

  4. Posted

    1 minute ago, Scholar said:

    I am not interested in engaging with you about carnism, I have done so many times in a multitude of ways. Everything I wrote is geared towards people who are susceptible towards what I am writing. I would rather help some stage greens solidify their understanding of identity, three self's, values vs views etc. than attempt in futility to heave orange up to green. Even if I convinced you of a new View, it would change nothing about your Values. See my posts about Identity, Views vs Values etc.

    This contradicts the most basic understanding of supply and demand.

     

    Okay guys, I am calling it. At this point we are just poking each others identities and I don't see value in it anymore. I will only respond to moderators if they wish to add something to this.

    A store chooses how much to order, and you buying will not change that.

  5. Posted · Edited by tenta

    11 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

    This is a way for a mind to distance itself from acknowledging and taking responsibility for participating within harm dynamics.

    I’ve used the same arguments you are using back when I was unable to see my relationship and impact within inter-connected networks. You don't seem interested or willing to introspect this at this time. 

    No because I do realize if lots of people went vegan then it would make a difference, but you didn't prove how one person not going vegan is cruel

  6. Posted

    5 minutes ago, Scholar said:

    And if he read any of my posts he would know that the Meme's purpose is not to persuade carnists or change their perspective.

    Ah, it's the vegans who are not looking at the other side's perspective... yes, it's not the carnists who are turning a blind eye towards the suffering of the animals they pay to be enslaved and slaughtered. The vegans are the ignorant ones, they need to understand the carnists! Of course, thank you for that valuable insights. I will now go and criticize the vegans who are so ignorant and dogmatic for trying to create a culture that is concerned with the suffering of sentient beings.

    Man, I wish I could travel back in time to tell all of the abolitionists that they should be more compassionate and understanding towards the slavors. That surely would have made all the difference.

    The """carnists""" (that's not an ideology, you're the one going out of your way to be vegan) are buying a finished product, like I said, you going vegan isn't impacting a store's supply

    Lab meat, better capitalism etc. would be better ways to stop the "evil" so you're not just trying to create a culture that is concerned with more suffering, you're also posting stupid memes to portray those who aren't going vegan (the method you are suggesting) as being inconsistent or immoral which isn't true

    Slavery is a slave mastery directly engaging in cruelty, they weren't having discussions, and since eating meat won't be abolished like slavery was isn't looking at the other side's perspective better?

  8. Posted

    @Serotoninluv

    Being vegan on an individual level while acknowledging you aren't changing supply and demand (like I've said) doesn't pass as logic, so comparing it to joining them is a bad analogy

    2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

    I don't eat meat, yet I do eat animal products on occasion (cheese and yogurt). Thus, I am participating in animal cruelty. Yet rather than rationalize this away, I acknowledge my impact and take responsibility. I don't create bizarre thought stories to avoid taking responsibility for my participation in animal cruelty. Doing so would prevent me from expanding my empathy and love for other organisms. For me to expand my empathy and love, I need to be clear about what my edge of empathy and love is and grow beyond this edge. If I put my head in the sand with rationalizations, I will not grow and expand. 

    I just don't believe people are taking part in the bad aspects of the meat industry by buying the finished product, it isn't saying that you agree with everything the meat industry is doing

    And I agree, if everyone went vegan then it would be a good solution, but the argument vegans are proposing is that you as an individual should go vegan or else you're immoral or inconsistent, which I don't agree with

  9. Posted

    19 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

    This is an individualist view that excludes a collectivist view. If I personally stop buying meat in a store, it will have a very small effect. My meat purchases might be only 0.01% of the meat sales in the grocery store (I am only 1 of 1,000 people that buy meat in this store). Obviously, if demand goes down by 0.01% it will go down. Yet I am also buying non meat-products so that demand goes up by 0.01%. As well, I am no ordering vegetarian dishes in restaurants, which means demands for meat dishes goes slightly down and vegetarian dishes goes up. I've been vegetarian for about 20 years and have noticed vegetarian dishes in restaurants keeps increasing. This is because more and more people (including myself) are asking for vegetarian options. As well, I've noticed 100% vegetarian restaurants appearing. And now, there are all sorts of meat-substitute options in grocery stores. Did I personally cause these changes by myself? No. However, I personally participated and contributed to a rising consciousness of what we eat. Both in terms of benefits to animals and benefits to the person's own health. I can't tell you how many times I've order a vegetarian dish in a restaurant and the person I'm with also orders a vegetarian dish. Or the person might make a comment like "I should probably eat less meat". I don't say anything about vegetarianism. It is a collective interaction. . . Collectively, this has an impact on demand for meat and change the meat industry. This could be positive or negative. For example, the meat industry might see the changing cultural attitudes and create a market for "cage free" meats and animal products. Or the meat industry may respond by starting a propaganda campaign that vegetarian diets are unhealthy and meat is needed to get enough protein and vitamins. I still see many people with this attitude.

    Individual, social and systemic changes are all inter-related and important. At an individual level, someone might go vegetarian - this could peak the interest and curiosity of their friends and family. They could be a good example of living a healthy vegetarian lifestyle. At a systemic level, there could be investment into developing lab grown meats. Both have an impact and are inter-related. It's not like only one has an impact. 

    Factory animal farming is brutal to animals. It causes a lot of pain. It's not like I'm making this up. If anyone visited a factory animal farm and saw the treatment, I don't see how anyone could perceive it as humane. To see it otherwise, one would need to be totally desensitized to the suffering of other beings or create some sort of bizarre story about how it's not really suffering because the animals don't have a sense of self. Or that animals don't really feel pain, or that they don't matter. . . The question then becomes whether a person decides to participate within this or not. The thought of "My behavior won't change anything" does not justify participating in the behavior if one finds it inconsistent with their behavior. For example, a lot of people are tortured for crimes they did not commit. I may think "My behavior won't stop the torture". Even if this is true, it doesn't mean I now have license to participate in the torture. I doesn't mean I can now send money to fund people that torture innocent people. 

    There are people who have been vegan for many years and convinced others to go vegan, but the "evil" hasn't been eliminated, meaning you're going vegan but not achieving the goal, if a big collective were to go vegan then yes but the vegan argument is that you should go vegan. More efficient capitalism and lab meat would be better solutions.

    That isn't propaganda, vegans admit that if you go vegan you'll have to take supplements. (but you probably don't if you're going vegetarian)

    Buying a finished product isn't telling the meat industry that they're doing a good job, nor directly funding them AKA not participating in the torture, it's different from donating to people who torture others. So it's not inconsistent to be against some of the practices of the meat industry and still buy meat.

  11. Posted

    1. You need looks, your hair needs to make your face look better by emphasizing good features, find a haircut that makes the rest of your face be perceived differently, in a better light. Your eye area is important, deep set eyes are a disadvantage unless the rest of your face is above average and you can't look too aggressive nor like you're a beta. Clear skin. Not bloated. You also obviously need good bone structure. Normal nose.

    2. You need status, you can't be known as the guy who is shy, hated, has a bad personality etc. (status is gained through looks and being a normie)

    3. Good grades in math, physics etc. because you'll be unattractive to a girl if you have worse grades than her, also nothing that would make you less attractive like norm breaking

    Here are some disadvantages: wide hips, balding, overbite or underbite, bad teeth, too high bodyfat, a bad voice, hair sticking up, too short or too tall

  13. Posted

    You said you were gonna start time angel, what is that?

    29 minutes ago, Vladz0r said:

    AAA Video game companies favor graphics over gameplay and fail to innovate. 

    Graphics have gotten worse too, and companies are virtue signalling with "diverse" characters, pandering to china, and forgoing playing their own games and making them better

     

  14. Posted

    9 hours ago, Chakra Lion said:

    Tell me what you think? How do you justify buying animal products? How could you think you are connected to the source, when you are killing the source?  

    Just a nonsense demonization.

    You believe buying a finished product is the same as doing the process behind meat production, that torture is involved, that you can go vegan without unnatural supplements etc. because that's what youtube vegans have told you... look into supply and demand more, and you'll see your statement is not true, buying meat from a store doesn't mean you're supporting the industry because the store would have the meat anyway.

    You didn't stop the evil by becoming vegan.