Wisebaxter

If reality is nothing but perspectives, why would the map not also be the territory? Isn't the map a part of the territory? If I say I believe something, isn't the fact that I believe it a kind of relative truth that's being experienced? In other words, the fact that I experienced a belief that I hold to be true, was a true event that hapenned, within reality. The experience was a relative truth, and that's part of the whole right? Reality is playing at creating maps, surely. That's a truth. To put it another way, why would my map not be an intrinsic part of the territory.

@Mason Riggle Thanks for that. What my mind keeps saying is, isn't the description of the thing reality too, if the description is what's occurring? In that moment all that exists is 'the description of a thing.' The thing itself is just an abstract idea, which only exists as the idea about it. When the thing was experienced, whatever that happened to be, let's say, a car speeding past - that was real. Any further attempts to describe it, are only describing themselves, or describing the nature of that experience, as it occurs, in the now. I'm not sure of any this of course. Just thinking out loud

@ajai Yeah it's definitely a rabbit hole you can get lost down. I'm wondering, if the cartographer was wrong, would that experience of being wrong, the actual experience in the moment, still be his particular territory, if reality is just whatever your perspective is. Just like in quantum mechanics where there has to an observer for stuff to happen (summed up the entire field there ). I suppose that in that example his map is embedded in something that appears to be more 'true,' or 'real,' but personally I have no experience of anything other than perspective, and Leo has a whole episode called reality is nothing but perspective. Or I've also heard it said that the relative IS the absolute. I'm wondering if there are only relative truths then

@Hello from Russia This really got me thinking. Perhaps I meant that my map would be 'a' territory. Could it be that we all have territories that interact with other people's territories in a relative sense. So lots of people walking around with shit maps And then would there be a super territory that comprises them all? I'm struggling to envision something outside of perspectives.

@Nahm Would light only be existing, looking like a map, if it was observed that way, as it only exists in our perspective? If I had an experience of the light looking like a house, could we say that's an absolute truth as it's what I experienced? Otherwise wouldn't we have to admit there's something existing outside of a perspective? The house is a concept, but if a concept is what's experienced, is there anything else? This is something I'm puzzled by

@Rilles If I'm having a direct experience of mind, would you say that's just as real as any other direct experience? After all there are only states. Being lost in a certain 'state' of mind etc. So if I focus on a candle, I'm having a direct experience of that, whereas if I then close my eyes and imagine a candle I'm having another direct experience. Should there be a bias towards the first one in terms of how real or true it is? I'm thinking out loud here. This question really interests me

@Leo Gura Ah I see. So it's kind of paradoxical. I always forget to account for this. So both sides of the coin have to be understood. Basically they're both one and the same, and also completely different. All truths have to be present for reality to be infinite etc..

I felt obliged to post about this on here as I've been using these things called concept maps and they're so friggin awesome. For those who haven't heard of them they're like mind maps but you define the relationship between each of the items on there - and they're more focused around concepts. Leo talks about concepts a lot and how much they dominate our experience, so having them in front of you on a screen and seeing how it's all related helps you to navigate through the maze a lot easier as it's not just a jumbled mess in your head. It aids your thinking process too as you're able to make the connections a lot faster in your mind. You'll soon notice how it's all infinite too as you can draw distinctions forever of course. The maps start to take on really intricate, beautiful shapes too, like God wants to create beauty and order out of it all. For example check out my 'Theory of Everything' Map. This is more a Map of where I want to be rather than where I currently am. Note that each concept can be set up to contain it's own Map. This software is completely free as well: https://cmap.ihmc.us/ And as if this wan't all cool enough, you can collaborate with other 'cmappers' on their cloud. So you can share a folder and both edit the same Map. As a strategic tool it's incredible. If anyone ever fancies working on one with me, for shits and gigs, pm me and I'll give you my email so you can add me on the cloud. Having a mental image is so powerful. You can practice making certain areas of the map stand out in your memory by staring at them for longer. For example, I stare at the Love section of my Map to imprint it and also feel the emotions there.

Whatever your experience happens to be in relation to this question, in the present moment, is the only truth there is. There's nothing outside of that. This is how the zero-point fractal works, constantly birthing an infinite amount of relative truths along with every other form, or state, that could be.

Ok, so basically you start listing things in your life, concepts really, that dominate your experience, and saying 'forget so and so...' So an example for me would be: Forget enlightenment. Forget awareness. Forget spirituality. Forget Leo. Forget Rupert Spira. Forget frustration. Forget regret. Forget eating. Forget wanting. Forget love. Forget God. Forget mum. Forget my brother. Forget family. It feels like you're purging concepts out of your system. It helps if you're feeling a bit frustrated with it all. It's almost like an act of letting go and seeing what you're left with, similar to Neti Neti meditation. Eventually you'll be labelling things that are coming into your mind. Like, forget obligation. I drifted off to sleep doing this and had a really profound dream about enlightenment. So you're reprogramming the subconscious mind too. Give it a go. I wanted to share as I found it really interesting and cathartic. I may choose a word that's a bit kinder than 'forget.' At the time I was fed up. I might be kinder to myself and say 'thank you' to those things instead, for making an appearance. Thank and you and farewell. Who knows. Forget works well though.

@Forestluv Wow I love this. So basically what we have here is an empirical experience that showed you your suffering was predicated upon memory and entirely thought based and conceptual. That's so powerful. I mean, you can have an idea in your head that this is the case, but you had an actual experience. Reminds me of the time I had this insight that if you're able to let something go from your mind, it can't be real, hence the fact that it comes.... and goes....perhaps this forgetting practice is a sort of follow on from that. I'm also reminded of something Peter Ralston says in the Book of not Knowing. He says something like 'do you know it to be true, without a shadow of a doubt? If not, it has to be a concept/idea and therefore it's not real, so let it go. I think he calls the exercise 'empying the cup' @Nahm Ah this hit me right in the heart-space Nahm. Always nice to hear from you

@kag101 Oh I feel you on this one buddy, and I love that quote. I was a bit concerned about negating my shadow aspects, so I'm experimenting with different language. The practice you're referring to seems more geared at accepting emotions that arise whereas this one covers that and also any concept you can think of, so a lot of stuff that appears to be external. So you wouldn't really say 'it's ok to 'cars,' if you get me. As I'm not just concerned with internal emotions perhaps it's safer to use the term 'forget,' but I'm still figuring it out. All I know is, forget feels so final and quick fire. You can reel off so much stuff using that word. Anything longer can seem a bit clunky. Thanks for sharing your thoughts dude

@Iiris Proof that a materialist and a new ager can hit it off then! I have this idea in my head that I have to find a really spiritual woman and I'm sure it's limiting me big time, especially as most spiritual people still have massive Ego's anyway most of the time. I'm glad you grew up with both sides of the spectrum represented. That must mean you can relate to people from both camps a bit better. Thanks for sharing by the way

@Johnny5 Haha amazing dude, forget about it! It really does feel good. Today I've been using 'fuck' instead of 'forget,' as I'm needing to drive it home a little more. Still feels pretty damn good. Fuck personal hygiene, felt good.

@Wisebaxter Wow that's almost like a zen koan. I've read it through a few times and it's very layered. It seems like forget does have a certain power to it. I was just worried about neglecting aspects of my shadow or making them feel unloved if I used it. I've heard it said that they need to be returned to the light with love. Also, when you just use forget as opposed to something longer you can reel off lists a lot faster. The word forget feels pleasing too somehow

@Waken Yeah I felt the same thing last night. It also made me become aware of the sheer amount of concepts that have been weaved throughout my life. I'll try the crossing out too and see how that feels

Thanks a lot for all the great advice! I did it for a about a week and then lost the habit unfortunately. I'm not great at maintaining these things daily and I often worry I'm doing the wrong practice. This is a result of having collected so many since finding Leo and spirituality in general and not taking action on them. Now I'm left with a platter of practices and don't know where to start lol. I've done mediation on and off for years and always found that makes me feel more relaxed and mindful from day to day. In the Kriya book ok Leo's booklist it says you only need Kriya and doesn't reccommend things like mediation where you just aist and let your mind roam freely. This threw me a bit. I take it you don't agree with this then? You think it's worthwhile to do Kriya and meditation?

@fridjonk How long would you say you need to practice Kriya Yoga for to start noticing a difference? Also, what were the first changes you noticed? Hope you don't mind me asking. Love your journal by the way, really interesting.

@Iiris Ah really sorry I got that one wrong, it's habithub, sorry to lead you on a wild goose chase there! But you don't have android and it's not available (yet). Says coming soon. There are other apps like it though. But I was never disciplined enough to use them for that. I kind of adapt them to my own needs. I linked one of Leo's videos to a friend and he referred to him as a delusional egomanic. This of course made me think about the sheer power of projection and denial, as I've known this guy for ages and this description fits him perfectly. Hope I'm not projecting now though Do you have materialists in your family, if you don't mind me asking. If so are you comfortable presenting them with this idea?

@Iiris na that one isn't really a game, it's more a way of tracking daily habits. Basically you enter a description of the habit along with why you're doing it, then each day you check in and tick that day to record having done it. So you get like a streak, I'm sure you've come across that concept, where you get reward for completing consecutive days. Actually I use it just as a way to record and store info on habits and practices now, so I can scan down and choose which one I wanna dip into it. I have over a huhdred on there as I can't stop collecting them lol. Most of them come from Leo's stuff. Note egoic behaviours, or whatever.

@LastThursday You're welcome buddy. I've now realised maybe you wanted a beat more than something melodic, but still, glad you liked

@Zigzag Idiot Oh I'm glad you gave me a heads up there as I was assuming nobody would mind others commenting. Well, I guess they'll soon let me know haha. Yeah I almost wanna make it a practice of mine to start doing it. Having met you on here and knowing we get on so well it makes me think I could make some more connections like that. I feel like we're a family on here you know. Like you guys are my tribe, as cliquey as that sounds lol

@Iiris Try an android app called Habitica. It's amazing for tracking new habits. You can get it to show you graphs and everything

@LastThursday Try this one I made dude. I've already sung your lyrics to it and it works quite well