Aaron p

There seems to be a paradox between the inability to use the mind to awaken and the requirement of the mind to be allowed to become more conceptual in the stages leading up to the psychological stillness found in turquoise levels of development. In layman's terms, we cant use the mind (thoughts and concepts) to attain spiritual awakening (which is true)…but i feel like this may create a problem when stage blue, green and orange people simply stop thinking and stop using concepts altogether (like a religious person trying to stop sinning as if it'll get them into heaven). Or like when someone says that watching your breath is enough to attain awakening where leo clearly states it isint enough. I feel like it would be useful to note here that there are different stages in the journey, the most advanced of which focus on the stillness of the mind, where yellow stages focus more on advanced levels of conceptual growth etc. I feel like there is a trap for stage orange and green people, in that they hear turquoise teachers telling them to shut off their mind permanently, leaving out the fact that this stillness is designed to create space for more conscious, effective and heightened use of concepts, thoughts and ideas in a more pragmatic, survival oriented fashion concerning levels lower than that of awakening, levels that are [for most] required to pass through before moving wholeheartedly into the domain of actual enlightenment. I feel like for the longest time i was avoiding using my mind at all because turquoise teachers were teaching how to move into awakening by stilling the mind, failing to mention the fact that the conceptual mind has to be increased massively before the pendulum swings back in the direction of psychological stillness. green, orange and yellow level individuals need to know that the mind is not just some rabid beast in the corner to be caged and punished, it is a beautiful, loud instrument to be vibrantly expressed...especially when (unlike our Buddhist friends) psychedelics are our strongest weapon, not silence..

@KoryKat what youve said here is true haha. lots of people just hear the lingo and just repeat the phrases they hear leo saying. There is an element of positivity in it...in that the expectation to know is sort of a vital first step, to have the balls to assume that you could understand it...it would be better for someone to think they can know rather to think they cant know. your still right, has to be met with practises in reality

thanks bruv

ive had some mad syncs. with spoken words...i would be communicating something to someone and say a word at the exact same time as the word is spoken by someone on tv. There was this one time where this guy i knew started talking to me about "cosmic energy" as the energy of the room got...more excited...unconsciously...the few of us that were there started feeling increased...energy...and laughing more and more and we had to stop ourselves as if we were being forced. Then me and the fried randomly spat out 3 exactly the same words at the same time...i cant remember what they were but that was weird

@Muhammad Jawad i struggled with the exact same thing bro. My studies on this matter arent finalized yet but here are a few of my findings. Hurt people, hurt people. Pain breeds pain. And if your going through the process of awakening, your pain will get worse before it gets better. Which means, in the short term, a person pursuing awaking may actually be a worse person morally, psychologically etc before it births peace and moral uprightness. From what i can tell...ultimately all immorality comes from a lack of consciousness theoretically. In this regard im referring to the elements of consciousness responsible for 1: informed and contextualized knowledge on how certain actions activate short or long chains of events that lead to other people being hurt, and 2: the understanding that hurting people is not necessary or good (because they are the same as you, and you dont deserve to be hurt.) here is a key insight: you will not become enlightened easily by simply being more moral and morality is not an effective way to go about trying to get enlightened. This is a problem in Christianity called "good works". Which comes first? Love or good works. Which one stimulates the other? Good works can stimulate small degrees of love, but it is love that stimulates any and all forms of good works. The problem is that people see this and then just do good works thinking they're filled with love/god. Truthfully, morality doesent have very much to do with salvation/awakening at all...other than the fact that it is (and can only ever authentically be) an accidental byproduct of your awakening practices. However this does not mean that you cannot be moral and on the path to enlightenment...another key here is that you can be moral if you want, but authentic morality only exists when there is absolutely no reward for it whatsoever...when the only motivation is simply because it feels good...because you want to be moral for no reason at all...because you love. Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast."

its just interesting that the only thing leo communicates to us is concepts and the only way in which something can be conveyed at all is through concepts. Concepts seem to be super important for enlightenment, i mean at the most basic level, if someone hadn't have told you the concept of enlightenment then you wouldnt know to do the practices at all. Then of course these clever concepts are designed to be meta, and denote the limited nature of themselves and eventually they end themselves to give way to awakening to reality that exists independent of concepts...the fact stands that concepts are extremely important and using the mind is not a bad thing at all. @BipolarGrowth i like what you say here...its just i feel like there is this unhealthy idea around mindfulness that you just have to force your mind to stop and thats it. But that gets loads of immature buddhists into trouble, where they're just sitting there in silence thinking their enlightened. I think i agree with you bipolar, stillness of mind doesent necessarily mean stillness of thoughts. and mind-emptiness is very similar to mind-fullness. its a strange one. most people treat mindfulness as something that you just sit and dont question anything and be silent until you die...where our approach is use the mind infinitely more than normal people... perhaps mindfulness isint the lack of thought, but the lack of attachment to thought... my intuition says that i need to be pressing further into the mind, not forcing it to shut down...its almost as if ive got this idea in my head of silence, and im focusing on that idea of silence. I get the strong feeling that anything other than relaxation is just an idea, and the mind opens when its relaxed, it doesent close...it becomes more full, and its full of emptiness, but not an emptiness that i can anticipate, manipulate or force....only surrendered to. strangely, i feel like grasping too much onto this idea of silence, makes the mind go into this obsessive, prison state like you said...where, instead of becoming full, it focuses relentlessly on the image or concept of silence

Inaction

@PenguinPablo building a cabin sounds so cool

@mojsterr fuck dmt man. you dont get bliss if you push harder you just get more directionless chaos and terror haha. fuck that. what your talking about (pushing through the terror till the breakthrough to get to bliss) is 5meo. Ive never had a good experience with DMT really...unless i take 150mg MDMA an hour before hand. Im off all psychs atm, need to build my egoic existence a bit before i tear it to shreds (which i still very much intend to do).

@BeachBliss thank you!

...is it likely to derail or speed up my motivation, creativity and drive? I don't want to derail any momentum I'm building with new business start up, but if 5meo makes you smarter and more aware, maybe it'll help with starting a new business...? I'd really appreciate some sound advice from people who have a fair idea as to the side effects of 5meo when starting something like a business @Leo Gura

Well yeah First of all DMT can cause harm. Treat it like any other extremely powerful tool. However if yous are Gona use it safely then maybe a few of his reservations could be stemming from any one or number of the following paths of reasoning; - they're bound to be illegal for a reason. - what happens isint real therefore there is nothing tangible to be gained from tripping. - it's fake. For the first one, why are cigarettes not illegal...when the entire government clearly knows 50% of smokers die of something smoking related...if all bad things were illegal, wouldn't alcohol and cigarettes be outlawed even though they're obviously bad. Government cares about money not truth. Also psychedelics aren't illegal in a bunch of countries. Also doctors use illegal drugs, diluted forms.lf heroin. Secondly, a basic understanding of perceptions will grant you the logical conclusion that what is happening is real if your experienceing it. Otherwise how could you experience it? Like if I was to say my night time dream last night wasn't real, yes it was...I experienced it. It wasn't physical but it was real. I suppose that also cover the "it's fake" reservation. You also gotta remember that some people just follow the herd and plainly aren't interested in truth. Some people are just wrong and they'll just stay like that haha, and you can't do much. The only thing you could do in that situation would be to spike their coffee with LSD and force truth on them...but that wouldn't be cool haha If he's just scared give him the tiniest starting dose ever

Haha @RMQualtrough

@ZenSwift

@Leo Gura it hasnt seemed to slow your motivation...or derailed any of your drive for actualized.org...?

...is it likely to derail or speed up my motivation, creativity and drive? I don't want to derail any momentum I'm building with new business start up, but if 5meo makes you smarter and more aware, maybe it'll help with starting a new business...? I'd really appreciate some sound advice from people who have a fair idea as to the side effects of 5meo when starting something like a business @Leo Gura

Bible filled with bs with truth mixed in in diluted doses

@ZenSwift i find visual examples are best broseph ive learned through my dmt experiences that everything is like an ocean with no start or finish its just kind of "there" and the implications of the fact that it is the only thing that truly exists...means that its own impossibility *is* it. all rules are it..and outside of it, is itself...forever. ego death is described in a nice story that mooji tells...there are 3 human shaped beings standing on a shore, one of sand, one of salt and one of water. Which are you? You are in fact the ocean...the being of sand walks into the water and dissolves, followed by the being of salt which dissolves to, and the being of water which dissolves to. they are all you. in a more realistic, direct interpretation of this...its like the field of perception is like a ocean of...itself...doing......things...and 5meo just makes the water clearer <3

@ZenSwift oh my word

@DoTheWork I've also found bro, that just because a person takes psychedelics...even powerful psychedelics...doesent mean they are using them in the most effective way. Personally I've witnessed people who take even 5meo who still subscribe to religious kind of dogmatic spirituality. This is where I talk about contemplation. Personally deriving truth independently. If 5meo is the thruster blasters on the side of a rocket... contemplation is the base launch pad that the rocket launches from. For example, if your launch pad is 5° off pointing in the wrong direction, when you blast off you won't be going in the right direction, and this error will be more noticeable the farther you go....the angle that you set yourself at on earth matters. Or blasting off with blasters that are too powerful for the size of your current rocket...maybe it's just too much for now. What happens on earth controls the trajectory of the rocket after its given the power of rocket fuel. Contemplation and a good lot of hours of it, will control the trajectory of the entire rocket.

recently ive been contemplating one of the things that psychedelics actually do to the mind, why they are so effective and also an important detail not to be forgotten. Basically the short version is that psychedelics reset the brain. They take automated (unconscious) behavioral patterns (both positive and negative ones) and completely fuckin remove them assuming you take enough of a psychedelic. this is advantageous because it offers the removal of negative patterns and connections in the brain, but can be majorly disadvantageous if the individual doesent realise thereafter that, to continue being a successful individual, he is going to have to put massive amounts of effort into learning how to operate in certain domains again manually. the reasons going through this process is good is because when you re-learn how to operate in a domain from scratch (no brain patterns), you learn it more consciously, more accurately and precisely...but like i say, if someone doesent recognise that they need to put this intentional effort in afterwards they can actually be worse off than they were before...having no skill whatsoever. i think this is a valid point to raise. its not a negative, but it could be if someone doesent recognise this requirement

@Javfly33 id say theres a balance, as with anything. taking psycs too much could result is bad shit...look at c murphy... i like what your saying tho

yup

@ALLIS my subjective experience is that a lot of the 5meo...online...is fake