DrewNows

This may be mental masturbation in a sense, but a fun topic. Relatively new to this contemplation exercises, i recently learned about this---the mind (that which gives rise to thoughts/beliefs/memories) with the ability to conceptualize and contextualize perception. We are conditioned from a very young age to find/seek out problems to solve. This conditioning is very strong and we are easily persuaded into this division from experience to experiencer. We then become psychologically fragmented to create the "me", experience, and an endless sea of problems. Nourished and feeding as @Shiva says, creating a strange loop.

@Jack Rivercould give example of a projection? Such as: see woman approaching, thoughts *is she attractive *does she seem interested *how do i look *what should i say * etc etc etc the "me" using past/future thought/value/image creating experience

@Jack River ...to observation/seeing the accumulation of thought/memory dividing observer and observed creating thought-self/ego/experience

@Joseph MaynorWe create our own thoughts and experiences but do they have to exist? no. do we have to exist? no. what has to exist? nothing. How am i doing? why do thoughts and experiences exist? they only exist if we exist right? the mind creates division in thoughts and experiences they reflect back on themselves?

@Joseph Maynorexperience exists with mind...we cannot know if it still exists outside of mind, correct? But changing the way we view things including our idea of us will indeed change our reality. Sure all may be an illusion but it is very real for the mind. Thought and perception are both created with the mind...sometimes thoughts from interpretations of perceptions as well as projections created from thoughts...all seen from within

While i am at peace with this i am little sad to admit this chaotic post resonates with me to an extent so i did some contemplation in essence we give life meaning so we can make it as simple or complicated as we'd like it to be. For most of us, when we were children, life could not have been anymore simple. i am recognizing we have this need to know attitude about life believing that if we can just get enough answers or do enough practice life will change and become this open book of 'freedom' Why must we try to define 'what is' ? Is there anything wrong with not knowing? Keeping an open mind and learning new perspectives to reflect upon is quite valuable but procrastination or denial of life will just create suffering. So i think the most value we can get in life is what we can learn from ourselves. How are we self-critical/judgmental/stubborn/over-analyzing/uncertain? What can we improve on? Spreading love and showing compassion is in our innate being so might as well start with this and see where it takes us

@Jack River Indeed, indeed! ??

yes desire creating psychological becoming but if someone is not at this point yet then maybe they will only know that suffering gives them a desire to end their suffering When they realize how temporary this is maybe the search will begin to investigate what else is needed? But yes i see it as a delay seeing what is. I feel this "pleasure" should be looked into just as much as suffering when on the path to liberation

@Jack RiverI dont know Jack...making something "worse" in which division is implied may be necessary the first spiritual teacher i learned from (eckhart tolle) expresses the importance of remaining in the now. i believe for him enlightenment was almost instantaneous due to a build up of suffering only the self desires..so if one identifies with the self then there must be a desire to end suffering and become liberated before action now. I never said meditation needed to be part of the process, i am only saying that it could be useful for some as it is a way to quiet the mind even if it doesn't address the main conflicts to liberation

@OuterAppreciate the statistics...setting rationalizations aside, no way will always be the way and until one is ready to let go then maybe practice is applicable. but i still feel if one creates a sense of progress, it will only hold back the dissolving of self/ego to see this, understand the nature of thought/self relationship I've been told understanding the nature of experience phenomenon, the thought/self relationship, and psychological time (and how they interconnect) in daily life is the most significant and direct way to end psychological conflict / false division between experienc / experiencer

@NahmWhat a mayagasmic post of yours! This opinion here is interesting. Is not direct experience in the now more than enough to realize Truth? I am struggling with letting go of the conceptual no-self and realizing embodiment...possibly fluctuating.

@OuterSure we are....we just can't see it. this is what i am investigating....i feel observable understanding is what clarifies the i/me/ego.....as it is only an illusion not a problem to be solved

Ha yes! you can see these thoughts for what they are! A self-feeding loop creating more division of thought-self. What is your purpose for self inquiry? Is it practical? @OuterHow does mind solve it's own created problem? by no way / means / or ideas can freedom from thought self/i be attained. Any thought given to this goal will feed the thought self/i

@okuleleThis sounds very beneficial! Great questions...I have no idea! The unconscious emotions/ suppressed emotions will begin to tell a story, i imagine, and this will help you realize your true self. Eventually I see you being conscious in the now dealing with these emotions as they come which may lead you to lose identity but grow all the more into your true self. At this time you may not wish to continue your practice except for when you feel the need. What a great habit this is to develop

creating a book!?!? HOW EXCITING!!!! Nahm you animal! it must be unique (obviously), bold, dirty, lovely, wizardly, and fictitious. If it cannot fit all of these categories, it will be utter babble. Now i must ask...what do you want from this book? (which i must say is the only pertinent question)

i create the illusion of an ego. It arises within me therefore it is me. It has a purpose...once that purpose is understood, it loses control

If we and the ego are, indeed, the same, then we may have both love and respect for that which is only trying to protect us. the ego always "thinks" it knows what's best for us, but we mustn't give thy ego too much credit for it knows only separateness

@Leo GuraYes i think ill name my next pet "ego"......come here little ego! my little ego loves to take the world so seriously... Gosh he's so critical! He labels, he judges and he has no time for funny business. poor ego... he see's only the destination/goal notices and creates the flaws/boundaries/limitations But where would i be without my ego? who would i be? when would i be? Oh never mind, that's a scary thought! Not ready for a condition-less life... but it gives "me" comfort knowing "one day" ill release this ego or maybe just banish him to the shadow realm until that day comes...suffering will be just around the corner

The video was about 10 false dichotomies in duality from the diamond net channel of @Emerald Definitely some good content on there! What if they want to keep their (false) sense of self?

@How to be wiseultimately, i believe, what he is getting at is that the suffering or emotional problems will never stop being created until the false sense of self is understood

How does one get here? To most this wisdom is possibly painful or even unfathomable Just read an interesting comment on understanding false dichotomy video about recognizing labeling as meaningful/meaningless as we give a false sense of deep value when deciding personal priorities

OMG!!!! i have to share this!!! @Nahm

Ha yes! Even if this "fear" appears to be other

@Yonkonfor me letting go is like being with a sensation in the body until it is no more with increased awareness comes less attachment and need to let go relinquishing the illusion of control

@SolaceHappiness does seem to prevent resistance what prevents happiness? Do people really choose to suffer? Perhaps they need to suffer?