DrewNows

Yes however it’s interpreted as more of a “game” in childhood therefore it doesn’t have as great of an impact. Unfortunately it’s when the training begins to psychologically become going on to create much conflict

"Inwardly, is “the i” separate from fear? And outwardly, are we as “individuals” seperate from society/world? Inwardly, “the i” sets out to control fear...a fragment that sets out to to control a fragment, and so on, moving towards the abstraction. And that same inward movement of fragmentation is expressed outward born of this false notion that “the individual” is fundamentally separate from the society, in which we invent abstract ideals and so on to solve fundamental problems that arise within that society. The fact is disorder, (the fact), is constantly evaded by seeking security in the abstraction that thinks will bring about order, by the intellect, in the form of analysis. But just as analysis cannot bring about order in the relationship with ourselves, so the same the application of analysis as applied on political science to bring about order in relationship between (man-woman) kind. This outward disorder, (corruption in society) is merely a reflection of the inner disorder of “the individual”. And vice versa.... The individual is the reflection of the society, and the society is an expression of the individual. The cause and the effect are one and the same movement of fragmentation. Political science may have its place in practical matters, but when it comes to relationship in society/the world, this application of incomplete action only causes more disorder. IS THIS PROCESS OF FRAGMENTATION THE ROOT OF THIS DISORDER, AND THE REASON FOR THIS FAILURE IN THE ATTEMPT TO APPLY POLITICAL SCIENCE AS A MEANS TO BRING ABOUT ORDER IN SOCIETY/THE WORLD?" -Faceless @Emerald@Serotoninluv Maybe this will be beneficial. For this to make complete sense you will have to fully understand where, why, and how division/confusion is created within (without assumptions). Shared this from

@Jack Riverwould you like to explain how the individual is the society? What would understanding the self do for society?

@EmanyalpsidThe "teaching" in which Jack expresses was not of his own invention however it is the only way in which he knows how to express his holistic understanding. Maybe he brings it up to see if your "enlightenment" would allow you to reflect on his direct experience of self/no self. Have you heard of Jiddu Krishnamurti? as well as david bolm? (Many youtube videos exploring how this "language" works...) also i linked you a few threads the other day which expresses this type of "language" @Jack Rivermost excellent posts dude, pity its been such a challenge communicating it

check it reflect it accept it love it

Your problems lie within. Give out what you would like to receive...this being said, i dont mean manipulate or have expectations of others. What Joseph says is right...explore your intentions in every interaction. You said you have some deep fear to engage and open up. What is it you fear? What beliefs are you holding surrounding this fear? Find these answers within yourself and get to the root cause...this can be overcome as quickly as it started so dont wait start now

Would you say in this sense meditation is synonymous with attention? Or is it more of a result of holistic understanding?

@Jack Riverexpresses an interpretation of the NOW. The interpretation itself can be seen as an idea but the understanding is seen directly. Here’s an in depth thread on it if you’re interested https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/24061-no-way-as-way-to-headlessness/ and here

Basically by recognizing the patterns of self and seeing what leads to conflict/suffering. Everyone has some sort of experience of liberation even if they can't exactly identify it. I believe the "going in circles" is due to how hyped up this idea of "enlightenment" is and over-conceptualizing instead of looking at direct experience without any attachments. individual,selfish way of living is learned, creates the suffering, and may be prevented with collective thinking/awareness

Thanks for clearing this up for me. I’ve been confused by the incoherency of the various interpretations of liberation and insight. It’s almost like everyone is trying to validate their understanding, although I know this is not the case

@Jack Riveryoure saying first one must have awareness of conditioning or freedom before beginning to have insights into truth? Just not sure what you mean by learn/observe. Is it a seeking something specific?

For me, I needed the freedom to seek/explore without the conditioned self corrupting the search or learning. @Jack RiverWhat do you mean here? i am looking back at these so feel free to pm me

Yah so it seems! Necessary until unnecessary. It’s sort of a tricky transition

Great point! No effort, only unattached perception, brings about direct insights into the veil of self

@SoonHeithanks for share. Pretty cool exploring the mastery of a skill/sports i love to do this first hand as I’ve played soccer my entire life. As an adult now only playing top tier recreational I embrace oneness as awareness and it has provided a whole new appreciation for the game. Flow states can be the norm...it’s beaufiful. Creativity is high and outcome/judgement are no longer present. To these top athletes they might say if’s all hard work but it’s a passion and doesn’t necessarily always feel hard as one may believe for the greats hard work was absolutely choiceless

@Jack Riverhaha yeah im noticing we may be trying to go too deep with these...but hey as long as they are coming from direct experience interpretations. This makes a lot of sense, good examples! Awesome dude! How about baggage-less understanding, knowing of the fact, resulting as Intelligence without the "i" moment to moment, there's no personal recollection/sense of time/story in the head how about the other senses? Does smell, taste or touch give a sense of identity? Have you noticed how certain smells, etc bring about memory of the past/behaviors/etc and if so is the thought no longer part of a relation/identity but a "what is"

@Jack River i see. Possibly a sort of going beyond and integration. Do you know how we constantly project in our perceptions of objects and space? This has been playing in my prrception a lot lately as well Mind chatter has died drastically but the self/separation still seems to wanna hold on...seems to come and go Sometimes I don’t stay with what is and end up perpetuating self you spoke of not recording “experience” as memory as much. You are referring to psychological memory correct? In what you call “moment to moment death” this shouldn’t hinder a memory of the happening, timeless as it may be, perfect clarity it shall be but with nothing holding it

@Serotoninluvwow yes I believe it...you say you had ego death in your first trip? No self came after the psychedelic experience for me Maybe this is why I didn’t see more to be better... heres a funny analogy... Taking psychedelics is like going over to the “dark side”: “total dark” yet “very powerful”. Facing yourself is the Jedi way: “using the force” “destroying evil”. In the end “oneness” “nothingness”

@Serotoninluvif I find some psychedelics to be in my reach I will be happy to jump on board However just the one has led to some radical realizations @Jack Riverunderstand ?? you spoke of distinctions ending and this was in no self while you were out on the water? Was their sounds? You make it sound like a trance. The first memory I have of no self I was literally gliding around in total bliss ? complete oneness being awareness

Fascinating! Thanks ? Ive had just one psychedelic experience, mushrooms, prior to any spiritual work. It is also the most terrifying experience I’ve had...went so far down the rabbit hole w/out any sort of breakthrough of the self (very ? opening none the less)

@Serotoninluvyou spoke of stages to the null void or something? So the self was literally obliterated in a minute? Can you recall more detail beyond that?

Too much too much! death cannot be an option

awakening becomes the experience after the fact when looked back on...rather an idea in your head about what "you experienced"

@Nahmuh i don't have a water bed for this Nahm...or does this require a partner? oh wait you must be talking about brain waves...sorry im a little out of it

@now is foreverlove is simply attention