vibv

It’s a metaphor. But you could argue that in reality the guy on the computer is also a creation of the impersonal room and that’s in reality all that exists. But that doesn’t change the outcome. Reality is deeply personal and completely impersonal at the same time.

@Breakingthewall Imagine you sitting in an empty room with white walls that are so white you can't even see them. Nothing exists outside of that room and you're also immortal. In front of you is a computer with WoW installed, the hardcore version – when you die your character's dead. You don't have to play. But you will do it anyway, fully knowing that it's just a game. And when you die you just instantly start a new character. That's all there's to do anyway. You're so immersed in the game that you literally become your character, but sometimes in between you remember that you're just this immortal being playing a game. But that doesn't stop you from continuing to play. To play is all there is to do for all of eternity, fully knowing that it's not real. But who cares anyway? Of course this is just a metaphor and in reality it's all much much more complex and intertwined, but you get the idea.

Well, I'll continue playing then and evolving to higher states of consciousness. Because there's nothing else to do anyway. Luckily it is also the greatest, most beautiful and most fulfilling activity that could ever exist.

The Absolute has a DESIRE to experientally know and understand itself. It's the Divine Desire. It's also a Divine Tragedy because it can never be fulfilled. But it's also unfathomably beautiful because it pursuits it anway for all eternity.

Both exist at the same time. The Absolute never moves anyway because there's nowhere to go. But in the relative everything moves all the time. Not only that but it evolves, too, into the direction of Love, Beauty and Consciousness. You can't achieve the Absolute because you already are it. Everything else is relative. We are in the relative. You are in the relative. All self-appointed enlightened people are in the relative. It's not a bug, it's a feature. Because the relative is not different from the Absolute. Riddle me that...

Just imagine that it is yourself with whom you're speaking and interacting. Everything you do, all joy you bring into the world and all pain you inflict always only affects yourself. That doesn't mean you have to be always nice. Some tough love is needed sometimes, but not out of personal enjoyment but out of the sincere desire to help others grow. If that's your goal you always have to ask yourself if what you do is achieving that or if it's only your ego playing games. It will never be easy. If it's easy you should question your approach.

So you're telling me if you're a dog or a human it's all the same? I'll happily evolve further then while you're contentedly stagnating.

You are saying that there's a before and after enlightenment. Leo is saying it's all degress of consciousness and that's what it was the whole time. Your idea of enlightenment looks like this picture to me: While Leo's looks like this picture:

Everyone is played by the same being. There's only one. But your character is not fundamentally different from the others.

That's really funny coming from someone who divides humans in enlightened and not enlightened.

Love is different.

Human love is like a very dulled version of the real thing. When you experience it you just can't think of a better word. That's right. But you can point in its direction.

I could ask you the same I and everyone else exists, but there are not 2 consciousness (there isn't even a plural). What happens to me happens to you and vice versa. We are not different from each other in regards to consciousness. We share the same source and all experiences that are made are made by that source. You know what I mean?

Words are pointers to different aspects of reality. I love to use my mind, it's one of the greatest pleasures. That doesn't mean that I'm not familiar with states of no-mind and practice letting go of everything regularly.

I don't want to go to war and I probably and hopefully never will. I also don't suggest that anyone should do that. My point is: war is a creation of LOVE. Understanding that is where it gets really challenging. I don't want to minimize your pain. War is excrutiating for those involved and brings a lot of suffering to innocent people (innocent meaning: they didn't consciously choose the war). Your pain is important to end the war! Pain is what will end the war. Tears and despair is what will end the war. It needs to be expressed as consciously as possible - if one is ready - and worked through instead of suppressing it.

Massively raising consciousness.

We need better sprituality AND better science. Both have their place and both are beautiful in their own right. As is the case for meditation vs. using the mind. Contrary to what some spiritual people seem to suggest using the mind is a GOOD thing and nothing to be avoided. Meditation (but also other things like contemplation) should lead to mastery of the mind, not stopping to use it.

I don't say you should go to war, but that war is a fundamental part of our process of evolution. It's nothing wrong, but it's also nothing wrong with doing everything in your power to end it once and for all. War is nothing to pursuit, but also nothing to condemn.

You can see it as a pointer or hint. It's like a litmus test for awakening. If you don't see that everything is LOVE you're not conscious enough to see it right now. Not only is everything completely intended, it's also absolutely perfect and it's impossible to do anything wrong (but please don't misuse that statement for egoic purposes..) If you're suffering you're not aligned with Truth. Because Truth=Love. A common error is confusing that with the pursuit to remove suffering from your experience or see it as anything wrong, but that's only the ego, because that, too, is perfect and part of LOVE. Wait a minute? Isn't that a contradiction!? There are two levels of suffering: Metaphysical and relative suffering. Or call it major and minor suffering. The trick is to not suffer from suffering anymore and seeing through it, because it's a fundamental part of relativity and nothing to remove. But it's not even about the pursuit to stop the pursuit to not suffer anymore... It's an infinite regress, until you realize: THIS is already it. There's nothing to do – but also nothing to stop doing. At the end you're just where you started. The journey brings you only to the point where you already are. But this "where you are" is in eternal motion and moving towards LOVE. Because LOVE is alive and evolving. It's the ultimate dichotomy: You are always the same, but constantly changing. Both sides are equally true.

LOVE is not a concept, it is the only thing that exists. It's just another name for God. It hints at a deeply fundamental truth about reality. It's actually incredibly ingenious design to construct our experience in a way that makes it seem as if Love being the fundamental reality must be impossible.

Certainly.

@Harsh Bagdia You're imagining Leo.

Human logic and reasoning are very limited. But there's a sort of higher logic that transcends human logic.

LOVE is everything. Including war, torture, rape, etc. There's nothing but LOVE. The Wrath Of God is Love, too. A rage cutting through all falsehood, delusion and sanctimoniousness. LOVE is something completely different from the human emotion of love. LOVE is beyond good and evil. LOVE equals GOODNESS. But it's a greater form of Goodness that has nothing to do with your human fantasies about what's good and what's bad. To realize Absolute Goodness you have to be able to leave the perspective of your ego and consider everything from a holistic standpoint. It's not necessarily good for you as a finite form – which most of the time means good in regards to your survival. But it's Good for the whole in the sense that it maximizes Love. You want an example? Let's take war. War leads to a lot of suffering, so you wouldn't call it good, except if you were the initiator of the war – that already shows how relative your notions of good and bad are. But for the greater Goodness war and all the suffering that comes with it leads to the establishment of True Peace. True Peace is not the absence of the possibility of war. It is us understanding the suffering and consequences of war very deeply, which requires to fully live through it – and then coming together and consciously deciding that we don't want to continue that anymore. The resulting experience of True Peace wouldn't be possible if the opposite - war - would just not exist. It can only be created by deeply and experientally understanding what it means to be fully at war – and then recognizing that it was false and it is not what we fundamentally are. But first you have to go to war. You can't skip that step if you want to really know what you truly are. That's what LOVE is about. It loves itself so deeply that it creates its exact opposite to be able to find out and understand what it is – even fully knowing what that entails.