Etherial Cat

No, girls didn't make you like this. You've communicated with yourself in a certain way instead of another, and you ended up resenting women because your mind only see what you want to see and you're trapped in a loop. I know a lot of actual nice men, and they had wonderful relationship with women. And they are not particularly frustrated nor resentful even after it ends. Just keep my advice in the back of your head. It's the other way around. Your problem is not women, it is how you distort reality. Hoping to integrate and be well-rounded in the future is not aligned with the causality-effect chain. You've got to do it the other way around. This resistance is exactly your problem. People are into porn that appeal to their psyche. In what context are these girls calling you nice? Nice is compliment that is often hidden as something to soften the blow before a rejection. A bit like a recruiter will tell people that they have a great profile before telling them they won't get the job. But it could also be because you are doing stuff in order to gain their favor and get their attention as part as an ulterior motive. And they come of with "nice" to describe you.

@Karmadhi I've watched probably up to 90 % of Leo's videos. I surely appreciate the immense majority of his content and perspectives in general, but when it comes to dating I find him lagging behind. And that could be explained by the fact that he didn't start dating until he was 25. And at least one of his LTR(s) seems to have been the source of a lot of pain. I'm uncomfortable about talking about someone's romantic life but since you're mentioning him I don't get how I could express my view otherwise When he talks about girls it's mostly about hook up and sex. He surely has a lot of experience with pick up, but pick up is only one aspect of relationships. Handling a functional relationship over the long term is a different story. If Leo had a LTR like let's say Annie Lalla and Eben Pagan, my opinion would be different. But he doesn't (yet).

@SamC You are on the good path. The process is just a lot of trial and error. It will get better as you gain experience. How fast did you try to contact them after you got their number?

@Karmadhi You are basically posting a video from a woman who is getting attention and view for serving men with content confirming their own bias. She's not particularly self-aware. The key is a balance. Not a doormat (that's danger), but not a psychopath either (that's obviously danger too).

I've read a lot of your post and threads. You don't seem particularly "nice". Men who are genuinely nice do not post video like that: Or That's not being nice. In fact, that's even the contrary. You are literally advocating for treating them like crap. I also remember reading that you like to fuck girls like you want to punish them or something. You can't seriously think that these posts are genuinely loving toward females, and are not symptomatic to a deeper problem? If you'd work on this, and really get to the bottom of your emotions toward women, you could certainly see huge improvement. It's very likely that your intense crave for women stem from the fact that you are missing your own feminine side. So you look for it outwards. But it might come off as needy due to the intense suffering hiding behind. If you'd feel more relaxed thanks to your own feminine side being reintegrated, you would likely no longer send a vibe of expectations, anger and neediness towards girls.

I don't think your problem is that you are a nice guy. I wouldn't put you in this category. Regarding the nature of the post you write and your relationship to females, "nice" is not the vibe I get from you. Whether nice means weak boundaries or nice in the traditional sense of the word... There seem to be a lot of resentment and anger within you. I'm under the impression you'll say that my advice is rubbish but your problem is mostly that your own difficulty with your feminine side is being projected on the outside. Women can pick up that kind of stuff. I surely do...

I don't call being 22 out of attraction peak. People here seem to be holding grudges against females who are extremely young (15- 22 ?) for their choice of partners. It's normal when you are out of childhood to try to figure out how things work and have little wisdom. Don't expect teenage girls to hold the same perspective as women who have lived 10-15 years more. But even with that, Emerald mentioned that she was in a LTR for most of her mid to late teens.

A nice guy is often a doormat. People with weak boundaries will get treated poorly by most people in general. Whether it's men or women.

She got married aged 22. So your post doesn't make sense.

I haven't seen listed yet the objectification/commodification of oneself. Seems like a big one to omit.

Thanks for this list, it's very helpful. It makes quite a good map for potential shadow material as well. I can recognize a lot of those patterns within my experience and on other girls/women. A few are sticking still heavily with myself but a lot of them have been significantly diminishing over the years. And that somewhat already feels good. It makes me hopeful for the other ones. I wonder, is it reasonable to expect to free oneself totally from them overtime or is it an overshoot?

That's one beautiful quality post. Thank you @flume

@soos_mite_ah Don't hurt yourself. This mindset, the emotional pain and this life situation will pass eventually. Better days are coming. You've got everything on your side. I know you can't see yourself that way but your self-image doesn't reflect properly on your overall energy and you seem to be incredibly resourceful and wise. Try to tap in your higher self. You can do it. That said... I'm sorry to hear your parents are unable to hold the space for you express yourself authentically. It is sad that you don't manage to make your relationship with them work, but it is rather common to have this type of lag and drama induced by not understanding one another. Reading your description, they've asked for your trust, then deflected your confession and made it all about them, and kinda blamed you for wounding them. And it is terribly unsafe and painful to experience, coming from your caretakers. It must have opened a lot of wounds, because this pattern must not be unfamiliar to you. I'd say it is not far fetched to assume that you must not have felt seen a lot and many of your needs were unmet. And this must have been (and still be) a very lonely place. I think you've outgrown them potentially in term of awareness. Both of my parents and my family members in general see the world through totally difference lenses as I do. Effectively, we are living in parallel realities and I can't count on their help because we simply do not understand each other. And to me, their lack of self-awareness results in displeasing patterns that I can't hold for a long time. My parents are out of boundaries. And it sounds just like what you're experiencing. I'm hesitating to give you this information, but basically, the sooner you'll be out of a dynamic where they'll have control over your survival (house, bills, food) the better. Because a lot of your problems here are coming from the fact that you are kind of their prisoner. In another environment, you'd be doing far better. Also, you know. Your parents are totally unaware but they really do love you. It's just that they love you at their level of awareness and it doesn't meet your needs from where you are at. I'm sending your way a few videos that have helped me in the past, in hope you'll find them useful. Courage!

Him as a judge, and you as an islam expert and we're good.

Can you point to any reputable statistic or study (not how you feel or what you believe) on that specific element? Or is that merely a feeling you have? Otherwise I'll assume that you are some kind of anti-intellectualist adopting ideological position on merely unsound beliefs and not any tangible information or observation. Coming from you, that would be very predictable and unsurprising.

You didn't get what I meant there it seems. If you want academic papers and datas, you pull them off. I'm not going to do the job for you. You're jumping to theses conclusions out of nowhere. These assumptions are based on nothing but your interpretations of my thought process, and they are incorrect. And my answer has been that the burden of providing the informations you requested is yours. -- And I'm not qualifying myself to you. I'm pointing out that your assumptions are even more ridiculous due to what I have credential for. You've depicted me numerous time as someone basing its claims on arguments based on "feelings", "unsounds beliefs", "no tangible information or observation" and of "being anti-intellectual". And basically, logical argumentation within an academic context is my main occupation. Assuming that I don't know how to base my thinking via observation is just therefore outlandish. What I have stated is nothing but the common stance of most forum members on academics, including Leo. https://www.actualized.org/insights/understanding-better-than-academics

I don't think it was Khadija. It was Aïcha. The documentary was in french, but I can send you a link. I'd need to go through a few of them though to see which it was exactly.

As a lawyer, do you think I've gained my credentials with anti-intellectualism and poor logics? Stop acting like you've got a monopoly on rationality. You're making no-sense. You sound like you're just out of intro to scientific thinking 101 and piss off everyone with your newly found knowledge.

Yes, he did have numerous issues with his wives. I've watched a few documentaries on his life and one was on his relationship with his wives. So I'm not basing my thoughts here on assumptions, but on a source. All you need to do is google it and there are plenty of content on the matter.

Unless there is some actualization through actions, which turns polyamory into something more than just ideas or emotions, I don't see a problem with it. Everyone here seems agree that men (and women by the way) feel some various degrees of sexual attraction for other people that their partners. But the whole point of the conversation here is cheating. So, granted that we are taking cheating as an action which leads to juggling between partners while being in a relationship (whether it is named or factual), we are crossing the line of sole polyamory for a relationship with multiple partners. Seems like here you were talking about polyamory in the context of action. It's not talking about it as a simple desire.

So, regarding statics and studies. I don't navigate through life or on this forum to back up all my claims with academics. Actualized.org is a post-rationalist environnement which use models that flies well over current studies and the discussions in here are not slowed down by playing the game of stage Orange research and quotations. And usually, stage Orange paradigms are short sighted Not to mention that some university produce some bullcrap which is oriented towards proving backgrounds for diverse interests and claims. That said, If you've got studies on the matter, you are free to share them with us. The burden of proof to reverse what several other members including males have said about their experience is on you, not on me. -- And then my point regarding the premise was that Gesundheit had chosen a new one out of the blue which is not making sense when you argue agains't someone's point to me. But whatever.

It has nothing to do with the fact that I am a woman. I've been reading books about polyamory and multiple partner relationships. And I also know some people who have been engaged into them. A good exemple of a guy who thought polyamory would be awesome is Neil Strauss, the author of "The Game". In his book "The Truth" he engages in a relationship with several girls and he start pretty fast to completely hate it. Another exemple is how the prophet Mohammed had issues managing his multiples wives and ended up only recommending up to 4 wives instead of the dozen he had at some point. So polygamy is certainly not "heaven" even from a man's perspective. It is several times more obligations, troubles, jealousy and drama. And your attraction towards these partners is often not exactly equal, but you've got to be fair. There is also something very disturbing to see your partners suffer romantically because they don't feel loved, honored and cared for enough.

Yes. I think that an important point to contemplate regarding this aspect is that physical attraction peak is occurring when a female is very young and totally inexperienced. And it's only normal that at the beginning one makes poor choices which get refined with maturity. So it's not because of the fact that the attraction capital is waning that they pick up another type of guy eventually. It's mainly because you don't do the same choice at 20 than you do at 35.

The premise here is that this assumption is false, not true. The whole discussion has been revolving around this for pages now. -- Polyamory sounds attractive when you're leaving in a fantasy world but when you actually actualize it, it becomes a nightmare. While I've never been into a polyamory myself, I've had to deal with situations of having multiple men being into me in the past. And managing others people expectations, potential heartbreak and desires is one of the worst experience I had romantically. The human drama makes it terribly difficult to be authentic and you feel like an elephant in a china shop. Next to it, monogamy is a walk in the park.

Yes. I guess it provides them a model which give them a sense of security and control in relationships... Just like these men needs a sense of security and control over their anima. And yes, the placebo perspective is definitely useful. The reason for that is that not everything is bad with pick-up. For instance, "Go talk to girls" is a great advice. But is this advice necessarily tied to pick up? Modern "pick up" is an extra-layer on what works. And very often it is distorted with diverse underlying ideologies, manipulations and lack of care for a woman's welfare. There is a power trip energy to it. And as long as this power trip energy is there, when a man approach women from a needy/survival perspective... affection comes second if at all. Energetically, the "pick up studs" or "alpha males" are coming from a place of selfishness, anger, desire for control and domination. And any woman who's known proper affection could tell that they do not love women just by the way they think, talk about us, narrate their stories and act. It's incredibly confusing to see men showing contempt, hostility, and seemingly a low attachment/ care for female believe that they are attractive. But I guess this might be increased by the "women like assholes" narrative they like to tell themselves... And it's really a shame.