SoonHei

@Big Guru Balls thank you @Serotoninluv @who chit thanks <3 surrender in other words yes. i tried this practice . it is powerful. but i am not yet at that level to be doing this for everytthing. #OneStepAtATime

have read this before and heard it. but truly thought about it just now and it kinda all shifted for a second there. powerful thank you. will meditate on this

I was having a discussion with a friend who has just recently picked up the topic of non-duality and is in his early stages of research. He was watching a Mooji video that talks about "the one who watches everything" He is also a Muslim like me and our belief is that there is each of us, our souls which are "inside" our bodies and then there is the creator of the souls, Allah/God Call it soul/consciousness/awareness there is no issue/dispute about that. What stumped me was when my friend asked me: isn't self-inquiry into that which watches everything a very personal experience and truth? for example, when asked that Can the one who watches everything be seen? how can we say it cannot be seen? it's like asking can the essence of myself (can my soul) see itself? of course it cannot see itself, a hand cannot grab itself... a person in form, cannot see their own face... what he was trying to point out is that sure, we all will arrive at the conclusion that the One (deep inside each of us / our soul) who watches everything cannot be seen... but cannot be seen by whom? by itself... how do we know that it cannot be seen by Allah/God... ? and that's quite valid... like i can ask myself this in my human form... can i see my face? no. but my friend standing infront of me can. is this just a belief that the one who watches everything CANNOT BE SEEN ? is it not possible that there could be something meta to our beingness which could watch each of our Ones that Watch Everything ?? please someone clarify? i was thinking that maybe this question arises because it is an intellectual discussion but so many other things when discussing non-duality are pointed out as just beliefs and assumptions... what if this here is another belief and assumption he also mentioned due to our religous teachings that prophet Muhammad, said no such thing about each of us at our core being God... there is us, our souls that is, and there is GOD (the real ONE who watches everything and everyone's point of view/experience)

yes. i get this fully BUT (now you may say that if you are adding a BUT here, means you don't get it fully - LOL ) the observer who is outside of space (as you say) whereever that place-less place outside of space exist. it is a realm unknown to us. so that's where i bring in the idea that what if, even at the peak-breakthrough when u have ego-death and see that you are GOD - what if that GOD we think we are is not GOD but just what the nature of each individual soul looks like upon transending the EGO and then there is a meta-creator to that. and the reason why it isn't seen, is because that's the bigger illusion. just like the masses of people do not get that we are not the body and so on. that same thing can apply at the being level? just a thought... lol also, i have gotten responses to what i am suggesting here that I only ask this as i have not myself experieinced that state. because in that state it is understood why and how what i am suggesting is impossible and what we really are deep down is TRULY ABSOLUTE INFINITE GOD with nothing else META to it

beautiful.

@Serotoninluv trip report after I hope and all the best <3

@Nahm amen to that

@Jack River @Nahm One day I shall join you two and us three shall become one. ^ an enlightened being would have a field day with how much wrong I am saying there

i am in your same spot so i am not talking from experieince at all here lol BUT i do believe that yes, at the end of it, once you get it all figurered out = lasting enlightmeent state and your seeking has ended then yes, at that point, one can say IT IS WORTH IT it is the journey which is difficult. no matter how difficult and mind fucking and life destorying it might be... one can only say it was worth it once the "destination" is reached. but yeah, you already knew that . it is well worth it the real question however is this. are you prepared for the journey? if the step to get there was just simply pressing the button with no "negative consequences" then you would have done it easily but its the journey you and I know which is the difficult part. the view from the top of the mount Everest is worth it. the feeling of having scaled it and all. but the path is dangerous AF

<3 <3 bless up @Greatnestwithin thank you

wow. got it @Greatnestwithin and no you understood my question correctly. i cannot imagine what that might feel like i suppose that since it is felt, it is still thought/resistance which is surfacing and that is what is witnessed... witnessed to be that existential terror so once this is accepted, the ego dies and as you said <3 wow thank you also. side note somehow, just the "beingness" or what I am seeing thru my eyes and just that without words, sounds, thoughts is becoming more and more clearer to me but i cannot help but to be is utter deep awe when i know that i am not even at the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg's tip since my meditation is not even regular yet and i just half-ass attempt the meditations that I do, do. end up sleeping mostly but wow. thank you.

this here is what I need to do further then. Thank you @SOUL

@Jack River yes, i have seen their posts. quite in depth and they have a different spin on their approach vs the other common themes i have seen. i guess i'll give Tolle a little bit of listen and then weigh the understandings later. thank you.

@Greatnestwithin what exactly does that mean? just being terrified of that current state in which you are in. just being terrified to exist or be experiencing whatever is the content of the experiencing in that moment? a terror that just IS ?

Yes, I am. I am aware of my own awareness. I am aware that I exist. What next? and yes, the issue here very likely is this: the infinite is a challenge for finite mind to grasp. But any pointing is appreciated @SOUL

@Nahm Hmm... do all thoughts not occur in the NOW aka direct experience? I guess you're talking about thoughts just being thoughts and not actualized reality that currently is present.

yes. will be meditating on this thought now till I see thru my question somehow and where I am going wrong I think maybe this question itself will disappear once it is understood there is no I here doing the questioning... but I just don't see it yet hmmm so it seems that since all is One. it can just be layers of the one object... the enlightened human self level maybe a subset of God, the super-set, who ultimately watches all i think maybe i kinda understood something in writing that above.. doesnt matter which step on the ladder one views from, there is ultimately ONE at the top of the ladder... maybe it is seen beyond doubt that THE ONE on-top of the ladder cannot be TOPPED and there is no concept of META-to-IT at that level of looking from the TOP-of the TOp thank you <3 now, universe, let me feel the answer @Nahm @tentacion

why is it often said that seeing God is terrifying? until it isn't anymore... (upon surrender?) but yeah, what sort of terror is it? like afraid of the dark/demon/ghost terror or just a whole different plane of terror which is ineffable... but still, what is the terror component to it? i guess terror = fear = resistance? is it just a very high degree of resistance previously unfaced. a massive huge almost infinite level of resistance that comes about?

@Rilles oh, no, no. i meant it in this way. that God/Allah being the supreme consciousness which sees all. that is the master of all the "I" so when jesus/muhammad/buddah etc all went deep inside and found nothingness . that was the essence of their own respective souls and then from those states when we ask the question who watches THAT - we can say, the One who watches THAT is META-to-THAT , therefore, we cannot confirm it. as we cannot confirm it, is it not just a belief that the ultimate see-er is what we are deep down? the ultimate see-er which One, who becomes enlightened, looks from... how can the ASSUMPTION be made that is the ultimate see-er not seen by anyone else META-to-IT ? what if that ultimate see-er META-to-IT is what GOD is?

@Rilles Allah/God is seeing thru Allah's eyes ? i don't know... i'm trying to understand this gap/bridge too. i was clear about this understanding until his question nudged me off track lol it's like let's say in a prison cell, inmates are watched by the security guard... and you're asking who is seeing thru the security guard's eyes... and the answer is security guard lol so again, the question being... is it not a belief that what we are deep down cannot be seen/watched... ? because is it not just a belief that there is nothing meta to IT which can watch IT?

@dorg wow very elegant. thank you!

@Dash Us Pain lol was so happy when i found this in my own research and said finally i can tell them and explain using the science but boy was I wrong about what their Egos would drop on me and themselves from keeping them locked into their current paradigm #TheEgoKnows! LOL @lmfao yes. this here is what grounds me lol and also, i make reference to this point here too. that i know where you're coming from as i was in that place also and yes, i guess you're right... the best you and I can do is to point them to the path... point them to what will point them to what points to the Truth, as direct pointing to the Truth can be quite challenging for someone who all this is new to i like the points about introducing meditation which sneaks in the concepts thru the backdoor (upon them practicing meditation for a while that is) thank you

woah. indeed. time. we ARE TIME! we, the illusory self = time

thank you @Nahm The power of attention... THE POWER OF NOW <3