Preety_India

@28 cm unbuffed so are you trying to say that your whole life is a paradox?

@ColeMC01 a kiss is fine. But don't expect sex right away. Most women see it as a red flag. You don't want to come across as too desperate for sex.

This is so wrong. Love bombing is a part of attraction. It creates good feelings. One doesn't need to be healthy to not fall for it or unhealthy to fall for it. Had I not met a narcissist, would I have said that love bombing is bad? Of course not. Because it's not bad. Things only become bad when they are associated with hazardous things. For example fast driving or junk food. The only reason why don't want fast driving or junk food is because we know that it's bad for your health or safety. But remove the bad hazards or bad effects, what happens then. The only reason we choose bland tasteless food is out of deliberate decision not out of desire. If accidents didn't happen, people would be more than thrilled to drive at the fastest speeds. If junk food didn't give us heart attacks, people would be flocking to restaurants to gulp large amounts of junk food. Because desire is very strong and we only control it when we see a real downside in submitting to it. If we were to remove the toxicity, we would be more than willing to do what we are naturally drawn to. You're thinking that every toxic relationship is because of some kind of inner trauma. But how do you explain women who were wonderful, cheerful and happy and no idea what trauma is and still fell for assholes. What kind of healing should they look for when there is nothing to fix? The problem with your thinking is that it's very narrowly based in this thought that whatever happens to a person is always somehow connected to who they are, in your mind it just can't be otherwise. A person can still have a pattern of toxic relationships without anything being wrong with them. It's only plain coincidence that they are meeting good people or people they are not able to screen properly. This does not mean that there is something wrong with them or some inner trauma or self esteem issues, it just that they are meeting the wrong types and bad at judging people in general. You're completely forgetting that in each of these patterns there is a common trait a person is getting attracted to? Maybe each of the narcissists I met were nice and funny? Maybe they were incredibly handsome? You're only fixated on the negative aspects? How about the positive aspects? Did you see that I made a thread where I said that I don't want a romantic person anymore? Does that ring a bell? Does it mean that each of the men who I dated were particularly very attractive and romantic? Yes of course they were. And do you think that its unhealthy and unconscious for me to be attracted to hot attractive men? This is improper logic. It's like asking a man "why are you attracted to hot women, that must be something not healthy in you." The answer is not so cut and dry as you try to make it out to be. That only traumas are responsible for toxic relationships. No. You don't understand that there is major Paradox associated with relationships that Leo often talks about. And in many of my threads he talks about this. And Leo is right. I'm getting attracted to players because players are attractive, because they got game and gaming is very hard to not get attracted to. So there is a trade off here. If I want an attractive guy because of his game, I should also understand that he will likely do this with other girls as well since he got Power for it. And if I wanted a super loyal guy, maybe I should lower my standards and look for an average or unattractive guy with zero game because he has no way to try with other women so most likely he will just stick with me. So this becomes a paradox. You get a rose but you also get a thorn along with the rose. It's a risk - payoff game. I can easily be with a boring guy and the relationship will last really long, but I'll be bored. But if I'm with the most attractive guy in the crowd, chances are that my relationship with him is going to be rocky and no matter how sexy or beautiful I'm, he will have lots of women all over him and he can easily replace me with them. And this is what happens in reality. Cheating in relationships is directly proportional to lack of morals as well as availability of a hot side partner. Men are more likely to cheat when they can easily get women. When they are handsome and wealthy and lots of women are ready to sleep with them.. That astronomically increases the chances of cheating. It has less to do with inner trauma and more to do with attraction games, dating dynamic, social availability, cultural freedom.. One of my boyfriends was not so handsome. I don't like to call him ugly but no girl would like him. He never cheated. It was mostly my handsome boyfriends that cheated. Because when a man realizes he got no game, he is less likely to cheat, but the reason he doesn't have game is because he is not attractive..he had no charm.. So you forget that toxic relationships often are simply a person's toxic behavior in a relationship and nothing to do with the personality or trauma of the other person. Same goes for hot girls. A guy will have to work harder to keep her because she can easily find another man if he doesn't. One has to navigate around this paradox where you want the most beautiful thing in the world but it is also most expensive for the same reason. Or settle for something much cheaper yet its not that beautiful. You can't say that a person is being unhealthy in being attracted to what is attractive. If I find a man funny and I'm attracted to him, there is really no way for me to know that he is going to be toxic in the relationship. The only way to find out is to actually be in a relationship with him. And then look for red flags. But the problem is that once you're in a relationship you're sort of tied to that person and getting out becomes a bit difficult. So don't be so narrow in your approach with why toxic relationships exist. They are many many factors. And trauma is only a single factor. In fact with time you will come across many many examples of healthy women in toxic relationships. They don't need any healing. They just need better ways to screen guys and experiment with a lot more guys to eventually find a guy who is not only attractive but also not an asshole. But him being an asshole is just bad luck, it's not her fault or lack that he turned out to be an asshole. Because she didn't enter the relationship with such expectation. In fact most assholes aren't assholes in the initial period, why in the world will a woman be stupid enough to choose an asshole? That's what game means. He is being attractive. He is not being an asshole. She is attracted. She has sex with him because she sees a beautiful future. She is happy with him and considers him a good choice. Only later his asshole colors begin to show and that's when she has to take the decision to dump him. Nothing wrong with her, she only needs to screen faster and harder and be quick to respond to red flags. This means that what she needs is not some kind of rehab or healing but more and more experience at eliminating assholes by gaining more knowledge on how to detect the signs of an asshole. And this doesn't need a healthy self or image but just raw experience and skill over time. That's what I'm doing right now. I'm upgrading my knowledge on narcissistic traits and asshole tactics. This way with more awareness and knowledge I'll be much better at screening such guys out early on. This doesn't happen with zero relationship experience. It only happens when you slowly start studying your relationship patterns and learn to fine tune it to find those who are attractive and screen out those who are also attractive yet have subtle red flags. It's about practice and learning through constant practice.

This JP guy gets so much unnecessary publicity though. Not trying to be jealous But isn't there anyone to replace this guy quickly?

This is not true at all. I have seen conscious people being in unconscious relationships. It happens more often than you think. What you are forgetting is attraction is fundamentally unconscious. It is signaled by the brain chemicals that are not decided by conscious decisions. You can obviously make conscious decisions but you can't stray too far away from biology. You're looking for perfectionism. That's a nice goal but that's not pragmatic. You can learn from your mistakes and grow and expand but you can't guarantee that you will never make mistakes again. Nobody is that perfect. If you had to be that perfect then you will need to be very harsh on yourself which is a very difficult thing to do. You don't take into account that life is not controlled by a remote control. It happens as it happens. We can't control it all the time. It will be like walking on eggshells. Yes you can become better with time. But during the time that you are trying to become better you will still make lots of mistakes. Attraction is not very consciously decided. It's not like choosing a career. Even if you are healthy eating for 7 days you'll eat junk food at least on one day. So by being conscious you will try to attract good people but you will always have moments where you fall into a downspiral or fall away from your usual pattern.. Maybe you will sit in a bar and drink but you cannot sit and think "why am I drinking, this is so unconscious?" Lmao. because you can't decide every moment of your life. That would make you paranoid. That sort of perfectionism is very brutal and sometimes it actually makes you more unconscious than conscious. It can lead to severe repression and shadows. You can only control your mind so much.. Even the most perfect people in the world make monumental mistakes. You can't blame yourself or others for what's happening in your life and or theirs. The only thing that we can really do at the end of the day is grow but make peace with human nature instead of using the ego to defend it. Attraction is unconscious. A man is attracted to a hot body of a woman even if she is acting like a slut. He wants her even if she is bad for him. In the end when he has her as his girlfriend he suffers miserably because of her mind games. But he couldn't control the fact that he was attracted to her. No matter how much conscious he might try to be, he still finds that hot body attractive and every time he sees that, he forgets his consciousness and falls for it. Reality is a much bigger gamble than a strict pathway of conscious effort.

Yep

Even a mother's love is selfish. Because true unconditional love means a capacity to love anyone the same way. Yes there are less expectations when loving a child but the expectations aren't totally zero and much of this love is based on obligation so the question of expectations doesn't arise. If a mother is so capable of unconditional love, would she be able to love her neighbor's child the same way she loves her child? Why not? Because the love she has is not rooted in spirituality but in hormones and biology. It is not a conscious love but an instinct based love. A mother's love only sounds unconditional in context. But in its absolute form, it is a conditional love born out of and influenced by biology.

It is selfish one way or another. By making it sound less selfish, we cannot ignore the selfishness. I'm not trying to say it's evil. But it is not rosy. And nobody is truly born fully healthy. My mom used to always tell me - "there are only a few mentally healthy people in this world." and that is true. Most people in a population are unhealthy and unconscious. Look at how many people stay on this forum at any time. In comparison look at how many people are on social media? How many people genuinely care about others? The answer is that you can be a very conscious person but you will still be having to deal with a very unconscious crowd. You can be a very conscious woman dealing with a very unconscious boyfriend and trying to manage him. You can be a very conscious person living in an unconscious family. Relationships are not always about choice. You can choose to be with a person who appears conscious but few years later becomes a totally different person. Selfishness of course has a gradient. But all you're doing is just trying to navigate around it. But that doesn't change what it is fundamentally. I can say I have a pet snake and say that it won't bite me. But a snake is a snake nevertheless. You might not consider it as selfishness because your ego doesn't want to see it that way. Your ego will have a massive backlash if you were told that 90% of your actions in life are born out of selfishness. And selfishness is only more palpable when another person is involved. If I eat a fruit, the question of selfishness doesn't matter much because the fruit is non living and doesn't have needs. But if I were with a man and he suddenly suffers cancer and I decided to dump him for my needs, then I might say that I'm not being selfish, just taking care of my needs, but in his mind I'm being selfish. See how it works? What you see as selfless harmless self satisfaction is still seen as selfish from another's perspective. Your ego can always swish and dance around it but the truth that it is selfish will always remain. Even your ego is selfish because it uses myriad defense mechanisms to convince and protect you. That's why ego backlashes are so hard because they go against our very basic selfish instincts.

@soos_mite_ah also love is not love. The only true love probably is what a mother feels for her child. Or a father. But even then it's not pure, because it's biological hence its again out of chemicals and hormones and not out of spirituality. Will a mother love the neighbor's child? Most likely not. We try to make everything sound pure and true and blissful, but it is hardly that. God can see through our games and masks. When two people love each other, it's not so pure. When some guy says to you that he loves you, what it means is that he is attracted to you, not 'he loves you.' the wording is delightful, the meaning is not. When two people love each other, they're simply bullshitting each other into believing they love each other. The man is bullshitting himself by believing that he is really loving the woman. The woman is bullshitting herself by believing that he really loves her. Both are bullshitting themselves and each other at the same time because they both like the idea of being in a relationship, it gives them a sense of security, although this sense of security is false, just like money is false. Anything about survival is false. Because survival and primal were never meant to be spiritual. True security lies within us, not outside of us. The locus of control is inside, not outside. That's why relationships never last. They are inherently built on a false foundation. Any relationship that lasts, does because of social rules and pressure, needs, obligations, duties and self restraint and conscious decision making to stay with the partner. It is hardly out of pure love.. There is always a selfish motivation somewhere. Of course there can be what we can call basic human consideration. But that's not the same as love. To have the capacity to love unconditionally is very God like and deeply spiritual and is very hard to find in a ruthless dating market. You can't find a medicine bottle in a bar. It's not the right place, it's meant for liquor bottles. For a medicine bottle you need to go to a pharmacy. For pure love, you need to look inside.

@soos_mite_ah yea true. But that's the nature of relationships in this world. It's hardly ever equal. A perfectly healthy relationship is a mirage. Most relationships are born out of needs and most relationships are born out of a dynamic which is usually not healthy but the partners try to find happiness within that. It's a predator and prey sadly. That's the real world. But it's not too bad if the person is honest and sincere. So even if he used manipulation he can still be happy with the woman and she can be with him. Dating is not spiritual. Relationships are not spiritual. Romance is not spiritual. Survival is not spiritual. Only love can be spiritual. But the love between a man and a woman can hardly be called love, it's mere attraction and need satisfaction. As base as it sounds, the reality is that spiritual relationships are the rarest and people like me learn this the harder way. There is no fantasy Prince Charming out there. Most men leave when the girl gets fat. I'm the wrong one to assume that reality should be my way. I'm wrong in putting more meaning into something that is just mundane. It's my farcical perception of things and reality will give me a big slappening if I keep being farcical. In reality, dating is a cruel game of survival and needs and gratification, the way video games are. If you launched a spiritual video game where people have to simply meditate and no big rewards, who will play such a game? The answer is nobody or very few. Dating is unconscious, inherently. Just like drinking and gambling is unconscious. To expect consciousness out of dating is like asking a drinker to be a healthy addict. Once you are in the mud, there is nothing really pure there. Dating is also a mud. But it is made to look nice by movies and books and novels that feed this naive idea that dating = the most honorable life.. This is done to keep humanity going, because" survival ". It's the same way people legitimize and rationalize doing dangerous drugs because they don't want to keep doing it but they want to defend it. Dating is a sport. It's like coffee. People are looking for a strong coffee, not a spiritual coffee. Most men are looking for a hot girl for a good time. Most women are looking for a good partner who can give them what they want. There is nothing less manipulative in dating. If the woman has something to offer then she will find a man who wants her offering, if a man has a lot to offer, he will find a woman who can match his needs. It's not so much about love. Love is just a veneer in dating. Women should stop having fantasies of pure love, true love, this love, that love. Pure love is fiction. In real life love is merely two people getting along with their individual needs satisfied and with a common goal or partnership. Since most relationships aren't fundamentally based in love, they fall apart for the same reasons, because anything devoid of true love cannot last forever. It has come to a bitter end. The foundation of most relationships is selfishness. Even the foundation of the most conscious relationships is selfishness as well, because the consciousness is also practiced to finally benefit each other. It's like conscious capitalism, where the capitalist is trying to benefit the masses but it's not selfless, it is for profit again, only less cruel or exploitative. You can find more balanced, less exploitative relationships but these will be rare because human nature is inherently selfish, no matter how spiritual you become, you can't keep denying human nature, it takes extreme level of self control, effort and penance to live very selflessly and most people can't do that. People can be manipulative in order to get a partner but the learning lesson is not to hurt someone or play unethical. One can play ethical and make each other happy.

@ColeMC01 that only comes through practice and breaking out of comfort zones

That's a disaster. Men think about sex. But women don't. Women don't go so easy on sex and for obvious reasons. Most women would be creeped out by such a direct approach. Dating and sex are two different things. If you are advertising on Craigslist for a girl to have sex with you, then it's okay to call her to your apartment. But otherwise that's a horrible way to get rejected. This is not about getting friendzoned. Just because a guy is not acting sexual, the woman won't friendzone him, friendzoning involves multiple factors and one of the biggest factors is safety. She is automatically going to read the gesture of wine, apartment, advances as a threat or unsafe. Why would a woman offer you sex right away? She doesn't even know you well on the first date, let alone know you sexually. Most guys would instantly get rejected by that move since women can very very easily sense the sexual vibe from a guy, even from miles away. If a man wants a girl, first make her comfortable, build a rapport but never make her feel like he is with her only for sex.

I will sit and watch other people take it first. Then see if they complain about anything Then I will go and get it.

@soos_mite_ah yea it sounds manipulative. But it doesn't have to be that way. The guy can simply try to get a woman to be with him. But this is a part of initial attraction. And some manipulation is always involved on both sides consciously or subconsciously. Women are also gaming men, only they don't realize it. But once he gets her attention and affection, that's when it gets tricky. If the goal was to only go on a few dates with her, no problem if she wants the same. However if she falls in love with him, that's where he needs to be sincere with her and invest more emotionally into the relationship and take it seriously and be a long term boyfriend to her. That's how gaming gets ethical.. If he slept with her a few times but found another girl or simply dumped her or broke her heart, in the sense using her, I'd call it unethical gaming.. Men and women are always gaming each other, either consciously or unconsciously (subconsciously) because this is how our biological instincts direct us. We do everything to get the attention of someone we are attracted to. This does not mean hurting someone or betraying them. It only means a slight manipulative game is always involved in trying to attract a partner. A woman might try to act more feminine to get the attention of the guy she is with while a man might act extra romantic or try to act funny confident to get her to like him. These are all manipulative games and we're subconsciously playing them without actually realizing it. Dating is a type of gaming. A woman rejecting a man is also a part of her game, because she does not see the man as equal to her idea of desirable, she wants a better man to game her. Everyone is setting their own rules and playing games in the end. A woman is setting her rules for attraction. A man is setting his rules for attraction. But hurting someone is called "being an asshole" or playing with emotions which is not a good idea. Attracting people is one thing but treating them kindly is another. That's like the next step. Once the guy has won the woman's affection I expect him to invest more seriously in the relationship and continue it long term without cheating. And if he isn't ready for a long term relationship, I expect him to get to know what she wants and be honest and sincere about his intentions if his don't match hers. Unethical would be if a man is not being honest with his intentions, playing multiple women at once and two timing the affections of several women, treating a woman like shit after having attracted her, cheating on the woman who he sleeps with, breaking her heart in the end, looking for casual sex without mentioning it, being emotionally abusive and the list goes on and on and on. Gaming with good intentions of finding the right partner to be with you, absolutely nothing wrong with it because attraction is biologically selfish however playing emotional games or mind games and using strategies to hurt a person, that's where it begins to get unethical and shallow. Gaming inherently is not unethical. It's how you set the rules of the game that makes it ethical or unethical.

@ColeMC01 I also see another issue with you. And that issue is you have limiting beliefs with dating. Limiting beliefs restrict you from experiencing a full life. Let me give you an example of how limiting beliefs work (or rather don't work). A) If I sat here and said - " I only want a guy that looks like Brad Pitt. No other." Chances are that a guy that looks ridiculously good like Brad Pitt, he will most likely reject me. Not that there is anything wrong with approaching a person out of my league, once in a while you might want that, but rejections with" out of league " persons are also going to be frequent and I need to accept it.. But if I left such beliefs behind and was more open to lots of average men then I have so many chances of meeting good men with great personalities, may not be extraordinarily good looking but they could have very charming mannerisms. This way I broaden my chances of finding a decent guy out of many men. When you make your criteria too strict, you also set up yourself for more rejections and failures. Very high expectations and very low expectations are both limiting beliefs and come from ego-arrogant or ego-deficient mindsets. B) If I sat here and said - "all guys are jerks and assholes" This limiting belief is a victimhood mentality and a blaming mentality and immediately puts me out of luck. With such belief and cognitive dissonance, no relationship will ever look healthy to me and no man will ever look attractive. C) If I sat here and said - "I'm not good enough or I don't look good" This is a self esteem related limiting belief and severely limits my chances of ever finding a good guy because I will never feel I deserve anyone. Such beliefs might even attract wrong kind of men. Such limiting beliefs can be severely jeopardizing to life. Your limiting belief falls in the last category of self esteem related. This self limiting belief means that chances are that you might even blow up very good opportunities coming your way by simply complicating it too much. What if a girl is genuinely interested in you and waiting for you to make the first move and you decide not to simply because of fear of rejection or Insecurities. It would do you a great favor to drop such limiting beliefs and explore dating without any mental blocks.

@ColeMC01 lol. Girls will date both Chads and Chavs! You need the game. Although game looks like a bad word. But gotta do what you gotta do. If you fool a girl enough, you need neither looks nor money nor value. I'll give you a secret tip - find a girl who has little experience in dating because she is shy or never really went out too much. Who isn't much on social media. A nerdy kinda girl or just some regular girl in the mall and love bomb her to Infinity. Next she will be in your bed. Game over. That's how I was gamed! If you try girls who have had too many boyfriends or too much male attention then you your game goes caput for the following reasons - A) she is already getting her male attention supply. She might not need to pine for your attention B) she feels entitled if many many men give her attention. Chances are she thinks she is too good for anyone. She will likely reject anyway. C) since she had a long list of boyfriends and experiences, She has become a Jackal and she detects your game super quick before you can proceed and quits on you. So find malleable girls who are mostly likely going to be love bombed if you love bomb them. They are easy catch because they are naive in the area of relationships. You gotta up your game. And find girls who have a high probability of saying yes. Like grocery girls or college girls. Not social media girls or tinder girls. They have too much experience. Thinking about your looks or wealth or confidence personality or shortcomings or flaws is not going to land a girl in your kitty. Let go those Insecurities and focus on gaming

I think you need a bit of polishing to do.. Do a lot of contemplation before going on these trips That's what I did. That way you're better prepared.

Gender reveals are banned in my country since long ago.

So Ute has dark hair like me and loves lipstick, loves the goth look with a bit of grunge, she loves dark nails and short Bob hair covering her forehead. I love this look and I might try this some day.

I decided to create a character for myself that will help me understand what I want better. I name this character Parsivales Ritter and the nickname is Ute Lyttle. I kinda felt odd referring to myself as Dear Preety in my personal letters in my journals. It felt too personal that way. So I decided that I had to have an impersonal way of reference and I was interested in this character that I created in my head. I was literally trying to grow into this character. So I will refer to myself as "Dear Ute" in letters addressed to me. I get a certain joy in talking to myself. I know it sounds odd. I also have an idea how Ute is going to look like.

I agree. Some awesome people here. And the forum generates great material for personal development because everyone has such a unique insight and perspective to the same question.

I remember the quote - life only makes sense when you live backwards but it has to be lived forwards.

Priyanka Chopra interview. Nice but some dramatic music.

@Reincarnated Cat thank you.

Having spent 3 years on this forum, what did I learn?