Preety_India

TIMDAD16AUGROOM 746 2747 Q: Okay. 2748 2749 A: It’s too early. I mean, people... 2750 2751 Q: So you don’t tell your friends, “Hey, I have a new boyfriend”? 2752 2753 A: No, ‘cause they - i- people come and go. 2754 2755 Q: Okay. 2756 2757 A: I mean, dating, seeing these days is, like - it sucks. I mean, so no. I wouldn’t. I 2758 mean, it would have to be somethin’ - even with (Shawn). I think I was with 2759 (Shawn) for probably, like, six or seven months before I brought him home to 2760 my family. I mean, I really - and same with... 2761 2762 Q: Okay. 2763 2764 A: ...the - that was the guy I was in a previous relationship with. But I mean... 2765 2766 Q: But this one, you were a little bit more - you said he’s with two women. Did 2767 that - was that one of your considerations for not telling anybody about him? 2768 2769 A: Y- yes. Well, I mean, it was, like, “Okay. Like, this” - to me, it wasn’t gonna 2770 be an ex- extended thing. Like, if it got to the point where we were, like, 2771 dating for, like, three or four months and he’s still talkin’ about, “Oh, I’m 2772 gonna move out and I’m gonna sell the house,” I think at that point I probably 2773 would’ve just been like, “I don’t think you’re really, like, doing these things 2774 you say you’re gonna do.” And I probably would’ve just, like, left. Because, 2775 at that point, it’s not fair. It wasn’t fair to me in the first place. It wasn’t fair to 2776 her in the first place. It wasn’t fair to any of us in the first place. You know? It 2777 wasn’t fair to his family, for him to have an affair. It wasn’t fair to me to have 2778 him lie to me and make me think that everything is going to plan and, still, to 2779 this day, I don’t even know what’s a lie and what’s not. I don’t even know if 2780 they were, like, filing for divorce. I don’t know if they were putting the house 2781 up. I don’t even know - I don’t even know anymore what is real and what is 2782 not. 2783 2784 Q: Sure. 2785 2786 A: But what I do know is it’s just, like - you know, that wasn’t fair to me, either, 2787 because if I’d a known not even all the truth but, like, obviously, some of it, I 2788 wouldn’t have even engaged in any of this in the first place. And it just - and I 2789 mean, and that’s the part, for me, just, like, on my personal level, outside of 2790 everything that is happening. That is gonna affect me long-term. It’s, like, you 2791 know, I’m gonna wake up every day and know that, like, this mom and her 2792 unborn child and these two little girls are not around anymore. And it breaks 2793 my heart. It is so - oh my god. And - and he - and then I have to think about, 2794 like, the consequences of his actions, and how they affect everybody else. 2795 Like, all of these - her family’s impacted. My name is about to be, like, 2796 slandered for probably a while. I don’t know how long it’s gonna take to heal, 2797 but I would not be surprised if it’s gonna be hard to go out in public 2798 sometimes for a couple of years. And that really hurts me. I’m just, like, this is 2799 a horrible, horrible thing. Like, how dare you? You know? And - and people 2800 aren’t gonna understand that. You know? They’re gonna say, “Oh, you know, 2801 you’re the woman that had an affair with this man who took out his whole 2802 family.” And I take a step back and it’s just, like, I didn’t know. Like, I - I - 2803 uh. It’s - he’s so disgusting. I am so ashamed of him and everything, and I just 2804 - oh, those little girls. They’re so little. They’re so little. 2805 2806 Q: We talked to - we talked a little bit earlier about gettin’ some help for these 2807 things, and we can provide that. 2808 2809 A: God. 2810 2811 A1: Okay. 2812 2813 Q: At - at really, no cost. Through the state. 2814 2815 A1: Oh, one more can - we just want to make sure, uh, there’s resolution. 2816 2817 Q: Absolutely. 2818 2819 A1: That’s why we come to you guys. 2820 2821 Q: Yeah. 2822 2823 A1: To pound this sh... 2824 2825 Q: And... 2826 2827 A1: ...pound it down until there’s... 2828 2829 Q: Yeah, I - I’m... 2830 2831 A1: ...nothin’ left. 2832 2833 Q: ...sorry that you’re talking again today. I really am. I don’t want to put you 2834 through any more trauma than you’ve already been through. There is, um, 2835 reasons for everything that we’re doing today and what - what occurred. And 2836 I’m sorry. I genuinely am sorry. I - it - these are not things that we like to do 2837 twice. It’s the same thing with other types of victims from other crimes. We 2838 want to do it once, and we want to be done. Unfortunately, we didn’t know 2839 yesterday, uh, what we know today. And that’s why we’re here, because we 2840 need this video. And I’m - I am sorry, ‘cause I know it’s hard to talk about it. 2841 But it - it’s... 2842 2843 ((Crosstalk)) 2844 2845 A: ...so sad, and she’s pregnant. 2846 2847 A1: And - and wo- on our end, we didn’t... 2848 2849 A: God, they’re so cute. They’re so little. Like, wow. Why? Why? Why? Why? 2850 How? I don’t even understand how you could, like, bring yourself to do that to 2851 somebody who’s, like, that big. Oh, Jesus. 2852 2853 Q: Take a minute. Do you want to step out for a minute? 2854 2855 A: No, I just need to chill with my eyes closed for a sec. I still cannot believe this 2856 is happening. All right. Let’s keep goin’, ‘cause we’re just... 2857 2858 ((Crosstalk)) 2859 2860 A: ...gettin’ to, like, the meat of this whole... 2861 2862 Q: Let’s - let’s... 2863 2864 A: ...situation. 2865 2866 Q: ...get to the phone call on Saturday, from 9:00 to 11:00. 2867 2868 A: Uh... 2869 2870 Q: What did you guys - or s- pardon me. On Sunday from 9:00 to 11:00. 2871 2872 A: Yeah. We talked a few times. So Sunday... 2873 2874 A1: You okay? 2875 2876 A: I think so. I need to think. I can’t even think. 2877 2878 Q: Take a couple breaths and take a - take a second. 2879 2880 A: Sunday night. I don’t even know. I don’t think I was that concerned about 2881 anything at that point. 2882 2883 Q: You guys had had a meal - a nice meal the night before. You knew his wife 2884 was probably coming home late that evening. 2885 2886 A: Oh. Um, you know what? I still don’t remember what we talked about. I, like 2887 - honestly, like, we talked about so much random stuff. Like, it’s so hard to 2888 pinpoint some of these things. Um, I don’t remember what we talked about. I 2889 do remember that was a long phone conversation, though. We probably talked 2890 about all sorts of stuff. Um, one thing... 2891 2892 Q: Anything... 2893 2894 A: ...I do remember, though, um, that I didn’t remember earlier when I was 2895 talking to (Mark) - so this is, like, where I’m starting to remember, like, little 2896 bits and pieces. 2897 2898 Q: Mm-hm. 2899 2900 A: I - I don’t remember... 2901 2902 ((Crosstalk)) 2903 2904 A: Yeah. No. This was a phone conversation. I don’t remember what was in the 2905 phone conversation. Probably nothing of relevance, to be honest with you. 2906 But, um, usually he talks to me when he’s, like, down in the basement, in his 2907 bed, before he goes to bed and before I go to bed. And I could hear the TV on, 2908 which I thought was kinda weird. I didn’t ask him, I just heard it in the 2909 background, and I remember thinking - and it was, like, right before we got 2910 off the phone. I was, like, “Why the hell is he up?” And there’s, like, no TV 2911 downstairs. So I was, like, “Well, maybe” - I don’t know. 2912 2913 Q: So no TV in the basement, where he usually calls you from? 2914 2915 A: Yeah. And I don’t know how many TVs they have. Like, I’ve never been in 2916 their bedroom. Like, I went upstairs once and it was, like, to their little play 2917 room and I just, like, looked at it. And I was, like, “That’s super cute that your 2918 girls have books.” And that was, like, it. And other than that, I have never 2919 been in any of those rooms in that upstairs. Like, to me, it was just, like, you 2920 don’t - no. Like, ever. I had no - so I don’t know if he has any other TVs. I’m 2921 assuming by, like, how much other nice stuff they have in their house, it 2922 wouldn’t surprise me. So I’m not quite sure what room he was in at that point. 2923 Um, but I just remember hearing the TV, and I was, like - it was just weird to 2924 me, ‘cause I was, like, “Why are you watching TV right now? It is, like, super 2925 late.” And that was the only thing... 2926 2927 Q: And he - and he had phoned you or were you guys already talking when the 2928 TV was goin’ or just... 2929 2930 A: I just remember, like, I - like, go- picked up on it, like, later, but I don’t think 2931 it was, like, throughout the whole conversation. 2932 2933 Q: Okay. 2934 2935 A: Like, I just remember it being towards the end, ‘cause I remember thinking, 2936 like, “Wow, it’s really late.” 2937 2938 Q: The - the, um - somethin’ I didn’t ask you about the house, ‘cause you’d been 2939 there twice and it just, uh, made me remember. Do you remember how you 2940 guys accessed the house? 2941 2942 A: Uh, that’s a good question. Uh, so once through the garage, and I think once 2943 through the front door. 2944 2945 Q: Uh... 2946 2947 A: I think the first time was through the front door. I think. And I think the 2948 second time was through the garage. 2949 2950 Q: Is there anything unique about either of the doors when you went into the 2951 house? That might not be typical of another house? 2952 2953 A: Like, a unique door? I know they have a... 2954 2955 Q: Not the door itself. 2956 2957 A: ...camera on their door. 2958 2959 Q: Okay. There’s - there’s... 2960 2961 A: I mean, I know that. 2962 2963 Q: There’s a camera on the - which door? 2964 2965 A: I - it’s on the front door, isn’t it? 2966 2967 Q: Um, I don’t know. I’m asking you. 2968 2969 A: I think so. 2971 Q: Okay. 2972 2973 A: Uh, I don’t know. Um... 2974 2975 Q: Was - did he use a key to access the house? 2976 2977 A: No. Um, he did not. The first time I went over there, he just let me in. And 2978 then the second time - did we go through the garage? I don’t remember. I’ve 2979 been through his garage before. I went through his front door once, though. 2980 ‘Cause I remember he had just cleaned - it was the first time I went through 2981 his front door. ‘Cause he had just cleaned his carpets, and he had moved all 2982 the furniture out of the way, and the furniture was kind of in the way of the 2983 door. And he’s, like, “The door doesn’t open all the way right now. I’ll move 2984 all the furniture back when the carpet dries.” So I do remember that, just kinda 2985 offhandedly. Uh, and the second time, I want to say we went through his 2986 garage, ‘cause I remember his garage. I remember - yeah. Yeah. So... 2987 2988 Q: So he was at the house when you went there? Um, you were never there by 2989 yourself, correct? 2990 2991 A: He was at - yeah, no. 2992 2993 Q: Or he took you there? 2994 2995 A: He - the first time, he was already there... 2996 2997 Q: Okay. 2998 2999 A: ...and I met up with him. And the second time, we went there together. 3000 3001 Q: So the front door - I asked if he had used a key. 3002 3003 A: He let me in. 3004 3005 Q: Okay. So there’s a, um - you know, those key pads... 3006 3007 A: Mm-hm. 3008 3009 Q: ...where you can enter a access code. Do you remember seein’ that on his 3010 door? 3011 3012 A: Oh, like, I want to say vaguely, but to be honest with you, I don’t remember. 3013 Like, he let me in that day. That’s - that was so long... 3014 3015 Q: So he never gave you... 3016 3017 A: ...ago. 3018 3019 Q: He never gave you the code to access his home? 3020 3021 A: No. 3022 3023 Q: Okay. 3024 3025 A: Not at all. 3026 3027 Q: Um, you talk about a security system. Uh, there was a s- uh, camera on the 3028 front door? 3029 3030 A: Mm-hm. 3031 3032 Q: Was that just, like, a - you know what a ring doorbell is? That goes to your 3033 phone? 3034 3035 A: I don’t even know what it looked like. 3036 3037 Q: Okay. 3038 3039 A: I only know that it existed, either because A, I wasn’t paying attention the first 3040 time I was over there but, B, because of all the stuff that’s going on right now. 3041 That’s the only... 3042 3043 Q: Okay. 3044 3045 A: ...reason I know it’s... 3046 3047 Q: Okay. 3048 3049 A: ...e- it exists. 3050 3051 Q: Do you remember seeing any cameras anywhere in the house? 3052 3053 A: No. 3054 3055 Q: Okay. Did he ever tell you about the alarm system or give you an access 3056 code... 3057 3058 A: No. 3059 3060 Q: ...to the alarm system? 3061 3062 A: No, no, no. I wouldn’t have asked for that. I wouldn’t of wanted that anyways. 3063 3064 Q: Sorry to regress to that. 3065 3066 A: No, you’re okay. 3067 3068 Q: We can go back to the - the phone call. Or where you noticed the television in 3069 the background... 3070 3071 A: Yeah. 3072 3073 Q: ...of the phone call. 3074 3075 A: Yep. So I didn’t know what room he was in, but I was just, like - I just 3076 thought it was weird. ‘Cause he’s always, like - before I go to bed and I lay 3077 down, he’s always, like, kinda tryin’ to do the same thing. We just talk. It’s, 3078 like, a really chill thing ‘til one of us is about to pass out. Then that’s, like, the 3079 end of it. Um, but it was strange. ‘Cause I was, like, “The TV’s on.” And I 3080 remember what I was thinkin’. I was, like, “Maybe he’s waitin’ up for her.” 3081 And then I was, like, “Maybe not.” I didn’t know. I didn’t - it wasn’t 3082 something that, like, alerted me. It was just different from his... 3083 3084 ((Crosstalk)) 3085 3086 A: ...standard operating procedure. Because he - whether his wife is home or 3087 she’s gone, he’s always got kinda, like, the standard op when he calls me. So 3088 that’s why it was kind of, like, unique. 3089 3090 Q: Okay. 3091 3092 A: Because it doesn’t really fluctuate when she’s there and when she’s not there. 3093 He’s pretty, like, free rein with what he does. 3094 3095 Q: Mm-hm. So anything i- anything important that you recall during that 3096 conversation about the children, about his wife, about what he was doing the 3097 next day, what he had planned? Anything like that? 3098 3099 A: No. 3100 3101 Q: Did he tell you any of that information? 3102 3103 A: I remember he told he had to go to the field and not to the office on Monday 3104 morning. 3106 Q: Okay. Did he specifically say where he needed to go on Monday morning? 3107 3108 A: No. I don’t ask him for those sites. There’s li- Anadarko’s got, like, thousands 3109 of sites. If he were to tell me, I wouldn’t of - I wouldn’t even tell... 3110 3111 Q: They’re just, like, random numbers and stuff, right? 3112 3113 A: Well, he told me - he said, “I gotta go to a site. I gotta go, um, check out, like, 3114 a valve” or somethin’ where they think that they had a release. Somethin’ like 3115 that. Uh... 3116 3117 Q: Did he mention the town or anywhere... 3118 3119 A: No. No. He just told me that that’s what he had to go do. 3120 3121 Q: Okay. 3122 3123 A: He’s, like - ‘cause, yeah. He was, like, “I won’t see you in the office in the 3124 morning.” ‘Cause I usually - I see him, but I don’t actually, like, talk to him. 3125 Like, I’ll go in the cafeteria. I will put my lunch in the fridge, and him and his 3126 whole team are sitting in there, and I don’t talk to any of them. I just walk out. 3127 Um, but anyways, yeah. He’s, like, “So I won’t see you. I’m goin’ to the 3128 field.” Which is not an uncommon thing for the Ops guys to, like, just go 3129 straight to the field. Like, it happens. Like, typically, they go to the office. I 3130 would say, like, three or four days a week. But there are days where him and 3131 his other team members are not there. Or, like, I’ll get in there and some days 3132 the - the cafeteria’s packed, and they’re all there. And other days, I get in 3133 there, and there’s only, like, three or four of them. 3134 3135 Q: So it didn’t cause you any concern that he said... 3136 3137 A: No. 3138 3139 Q: “...I’m goin’ to the field on Monday. I won’t see you”? That wasn’t... 3140 3141 A: No. It didn’t... 3142 3143 Q: That’s happened before? 3144 3145 A: Yeah, I mean... 3146 3147 Q: Okay. 3148 3149 A: ...it wasn’t something - I mean, and it’s not just him. It’s, like, that whole 3150 team. Like, you can just tell when they’ve got, like, a lot goin’ on. ‘Cause I’ll

TIMDAD16AUGROOM 2521 ((Crosstalk)) 2522 2523 Q: Well, but it came from him to you, so it’s not. It is somethin’ that I, um - is - 2524 whether it’s important or not, we can validate that. Uh, I’m sure we will be 2525 having some conversations with family. Um, you know, it - what does it 2526 mean? I don’t know. Um, but... 2527 2528 A: Yeah. I don’t know, either. But I just know... 2529 2530 Q: So... 2531 2532 A: ...like... 2533 2534 Q: Maybe she n- I don’t know. 2535 2536 A: Well, and then, um, he ended up seeing them on the last, like, full day that he 2537 was there, and they told him, supposedly, that she had gotten really upset and 2538 then scream and yelled in front of his s- Chris’s sisters kids that are very 2539 young. And that his mom and his dad had said, like, “You’re never gonna see 2540 Chris again. You’re gonna see me. You’re never gonna see the babies.” And 2541 just, like, threatened them. And then, like, walked off. And I guess that was 2542 the incident that happened prior to him coming out there. And then she didn’t 2543 tell him about it. 2544 2545 Q: Mm-hm. 2546 2547 A: She just, like, let it go and then he just spent all week tryin’ to figure out why 2548 his family was, like... 2549 2550 Q: Hm. 2551 2552 A: ...not tryin’ to be involved. 2553 2554 Q: Gotcha. 2555 2556 A: Um, so again, I’m not sure. That was i- like, it - it just feels really third-party, 2557 so it’s hard for me to, like, talk about. Because... 2558 2559 Q: Sure. 2560 2561 A: ...I don’t know how much... 2562 2563 Q: That’s okay. 2564 2565 A: ...validation... 2566 2567 ((Crosstalk)) 2568 2569 Q: So be- beyond the me- the nut allergy for (CiCi), did you know of any other - 2570 did she take meds that you know of? Other than carrying an epi-pen? 2571 2572 A: His kids or his wife? 2573 2574 Q: No, hi- his children. 2575 2576 A: No. 2577 2578 Q: And now - well, if you know anything about his wife’s medical conditions, if 2579 she had any. 2580 2581 A: No. I’ve, like, read in the newspaper. They keep sayin’, “Oh, she had medical 2582 conditions.” And I’m like, “Is that a misprint? Are they talkin’ about (CiCi)? 2583 Or is that just somethin’ else I don’t know?” 2584 2585 Q: So you don’t know anything about... 2586 2587 A: Nope. 2588 2589 Q: ...uh, Shanann having any kind of medical problems? 2590 2591 A: Nope. 2592 2593 Q: Okay. Covered Saturday. So there’s a phone call Saturday night, actually. Um, 2594 from - uh, it can’t be Saturday. It had to be Sunday. I wrote that down quickly. 2595 Sunday night. Is there anything else you think - let’s - let me just back up. 2596 From the Saturday, where you guys had a meal at - at The Lazy Dog, to prior 2597 for the six weeks that you guys were serious - and, um, although your dad’s 2598 here and I think you’re probably pretty comfortable, your relationship with 2599 Chris was - can you describe your relationship? 2600 2601 A: I mean, when he was with me, I considered it to be fairly healthy. Was open 2602 communication and it was what I thought was honest. And it was very calm. It 2603 was respectful. Uh, we got along really well. He gave me my space when I 2604 needed it. I gave him his. And any time, like, he wanted to take care of hi- 2605 like, any time that his kids could be in, like, his life for hours or days or 2606 whatever - whenever they were home, I made sure that I wasn’t a presence in 2607 his life. So that he could be the best dad that he needed to be. Um, and, I 2608 mean, I thought what we had - it was very comfortable for me. I enjoyed it. I 2609 think he did very much, as well. 2611 Q: Your guys - you - six to eight weeks, two mo- whatever it was, you guys have 2612 an intimate relationship during that time? 2613 2614 A: Yes. 2615 2616 Q: Okay. So you’re - and you’re pretty serious. Um, d- did he ever tell you that 2617 he loved you? 2618 2619 A: Yes, he did. 2620 2621 Q: Did you ever tell him the same? 2622 2623 A: Couple times. 2624 2625 Q: Okay. Um, notwithstanding that today, ‘cause that may - those thoughts may 2626 have changed for you, but on - let’s go Mon- Sunday into Monday or Monday, 2627 did you - did you still love him on those days? 2628 2629 A: I think it was something where it was, like, I s- I said it a few times and I 2630 meant it, but he definitely felt the urge to say it to me a lot more than I did to 2631 him. Because it was just all very new to me and it was, like, “Take your time 2632 with this. Like, you don’t need to - to, like, rush that, you know?” Like, I 2633 remember when he was in North Carolina and he was, like, tryin’ to patch 2634 things up with his wife. And he told me he loved me. And I was, like, “Don’t 2635 say that to me. Like, please go try to fi- and I mean it.” And that might be in 2636 the texts, too. Where it’s, like, “Don’t. Don’t. Like, don’t say those words to 2637 me and then go try to make peace with you li- wife and lay in bed with 2638 another woman. Like, just don’t do that.” And I was, like, “It’s not that I don’t 2639 appreciate what you’re saying to me.” It’s, like, just - it just didn’t sit right for 2640 me, you know? So I’d just be like... 2641 2642 Q: Almost like an insecurity where he had to say that to you? Or... 2643 2644 A: I - I don’t - no. I think he - he, like - looking back at all this now, I don’t think 2645 he was trying to fix things with her. So saying “I love you” to me seemed like 2646 probably something that he genuinely meant. Like, “I love this woman.” And 2647 regardless of where he was gonna end up that night. But, to me, in the way 2648 that I was perceiving things, he had told me that he was tryin’ to fix things 2649 with her. So it’s just, like, “This is an inappropriate time.” And I wasn’t mad 2650 at him. And I’m pretty sure that’s in the texts, too. Where it was very, like, 2651 calm but it’s just, like, it’s almost disrespectful. Where it’s, like, “Please 2652 don’t.” I’m like, “You know, if we get to that point where it is you and me, 2653 like, yes, you can say that. But don’t - not then. Like, that’s...” 2654 2655 Q: So you thought he was very genuine when he said that? 2656 2657 A: I - yeah. I did. I mean, and he wrote it and sent all those cards I gave you. Not 2658 in all of them, but, like... 2659 2660 Q: Hm. 2661 2662 A: ...the later ones. 2663 2664 Q: And... 2665 2666 A: Thank you. 2667 2668 Q: When you said it to him, you said you meant it, when you said it. 2669 2670 A: Yes. I just didn’t say it as frequently as he said it. Like, sometimes he would 2671 say it and I was just, like - for me, it was still, like, very, very new. So I kinda, 2672 like, took my time and only said it when I was just, like, “This is a really 2673 important moment.” 2674 2675 Q: So you go- I mean, in the short period of time that you guys were together, 2676 he... 2677 2678 A: Yes. 2679 2680 Q: ...wa- became very attached to you. 2681 2682 A: Yes. Very, very attached. 2683 2684 Q: I mean, he’s sending cards... 2685 2686 A: Flowers. 2687 2688 Q: ...he’s tellin’ you he loves you, he sends you flowers. Does he buy you any 2689 other gifts? 2690 2691 A: Nope. I wouldn’t have wanted them anyways. It’s - flowers is enough. You 2692 can’t - I don’t need expensive stuff. 2693 2694 Q: Okay. But he becomes very attached to you. 2695 2696 A: Yes. 2697 2698 Q: Um, you guys are talking multiple times a day, at least. You’re... 2699 2700 ((Crosstalk)) 2701 2702 A: All the time. 2703 2704 Q: You’re seein’ each other on a regular basis. 2705 2706 A: Yep. 2707 2708 Q: Um, so i- it - it’s a very, um - and - and his wife is not around, nor are his 2709 children. So there’s a lot of time for you guys to build your relationship in this 2710 first four - four weeks or so. Is that fair? 2711 2712 A: Yeah. And even when she - she was back, I mean, it was still, like, we were 2713 still spending time together. He was still spending time with his children, and 2714 I have my own life. Like, I mean, there was one week where I just, like, went 2715 out of town for my - with my friends for my birthday. I wasn’t even around 2716 the whole, like, th- last few days of June, up until the 3rd of July. I was, like, 2717 gone. You know? And then there was another - like, a f- last weekend, I had a 2718 friend impromptu come in town from out of state, and I hosted her, uh, for a 2719 few days. And it’s, like, it - like, I still did my own thing all the time. Like, 2720 whether he was there or not. Like, if my friends were, like, “Hey, we want to 2721 make plans,” I would tell him, like, “We’re not hangin’ out today, ‘cause I 2722 want to go see my mom or my dad.” 2723 2724 Q: Did your friends know about him? 2725 2726 A: Nope. 2727 2728 Q: Why? 2729 2730 A: ‘Cause it’s - like, he’s with two women right now. They don’t... 2731 2732 Q: Okay. 2733 2734 A: ...need to know about that. 2735 2736 Q: So if you had a boyfriend of four to eight weeks, on a regu- I don’t know if 2737 you ha- were married prior or if you had a boyfriend before, but if you had a 2738 steady boyfriend, you would let people know - I think you told me before we 2739 got started that y- you just told your dad about Chris, um... 2740 2741 A: No, I wouldn’t of told him. 2742 2743 Q: ...recently. 2744 2745 A: I wouldn’t of told people.

TIMDAD16AUGROOM 2161 the first two booths on the right, when you walk in the door. 2162 2163 Q: Okay. 2164 2165 A: You just - it’s just not a good - it’s a good spot, but just not for the TVs. And 2166 we actually went to the other Lazy Dog. We went to the one that you and me 2167 go to. Where’s that at? Federal and 100... 2168 2169 A1: 20th. 2170 2171 A: It’s 120th and Federal, and we went there, and they have a different menu. 2172 And I was, like, “I don’t want to eat this food. So we should go to the other 2173 one.” 2174 2175 Q: So initially you go to the 120th location? 2176 2177 A: Yes. 2178 2179 Q: Did you actually... 2180 2181 A: And... 2182 2183 Q: ...get seated? 2184 2185 A: Uh, kinda, sorta. They were, like, cleaning off a table and we were standing 2186 there, just kinda lookin’ at the beer menu and the food menu, and I was, like, 2187 “I don’t want this.” And he - and so we left. 2188 2189 Q: Six o’clock? 2190 2191 A: Probably somewhere around there. 6:00, 6:30. And then we left and went to 2192 the other one, and we ate dinner. 2193 2194 Q: All right. And you were in the first or second booth, right... 2195 2196 A: Ah-huh. 2197 2198 Q: ...to the right of the door? 2199 2200 A: Ah-huh. 2201 2202 Q: I’m just askin’, ‘cause if they have video, we want to be able to verify that. 2203 2204 A: Ah-huh. 2206 Q: So that’s why it’s important. 2207 2208 A: Ah-huh. 2209 2210 Q: Um, and you were there for how long? 2211 2212 A: Uh, I don’t know. Probably - we didn’t stay for dessert, so I don’t know. How 2213 long’s the restaurant take? Like, an hour-and-a-half? 2214 2215 ((Crosstalk)) 2216 2217 Q1: I don’t know. 2218 2219 Q: I’ve never been to The Lazy Dog. 2220 2221 A: I don’t know. Probably about an hour-and-a-half, and then, uh, we went back 2222 to my house for a little bit. Hung out at my house, um, for a little while, and 2223 then he had to leave. And then he left. 2224 2225 Q: Do you recall what time he left? 2226 2227 A: Off the top of my head, no. I remember he was, like, gonna be late to be back 2228 at 10:00. I think there’s a text message where he starts texting me when he’s 2229 home at his house. 2230 2231 Q: Okay. 2232 2233 A: So you can probably figure that out. And I remember th- I texted him back 2234 and I was, like, “Damn, that was quick.” Or “Wow, that was really quick.” 2235 He’s, like, “Yeah, I even had time to stop at the ATM,” or “Stop at the gas 2236 station.” Stop somewhere to get money to pay the babysitter. 2237 2238 Q: Okay. 2239 2240 A: Um, and I was just, like, thinkin’, like, “Whoa, that was really fast.” Um, but I 2241 think he was still, like, a little late coming back, but nothing too drastic. So he 2242 probably left my house, like, somewhere around 9:30-ish. 2243 2244 Q: All right. And you n- he goes straight home. He texts you. Um... 2245 2246 A: Well, I was already home. 2247 2248 Q: Right. No, he text you. He goes straight home from your house and he texts 2249 you that he’s home? 2251 A: Mm-hm. 2252 2253 Q: So that should be in your text messages. 2254 2255 A: Uh - uh, it should be. I’m pretty positive that was not a phone call. I’m almost 2256 positive that was a text. Sometimes I get them flip-flopped, or I don’t 2257 remember, but sometimes I know. I’m pretty sure that one was a text. 2258 2259 Q: Saturday, during your dinner, um, what - what kinda conversation did you 2260 guys have? 2261 2262 A: Uh, I don’t even remember. Oh. I, uh - so he’s been tryin’ to, like, eat a little 2263 healthier than he normally does. And he’s always, like, been in the workin’ 2264 out since I knew him and he, like, tries to eat clean. But he was tryin’ to, like, 2265 step it up a little bit. And nothing like the people who do, like, the 2266 competitions and the shows that are all super restrictive. I mean, it was nothin’ 2267 like that. It’s just, like, day-to-day general maintenance, but it’s how I eat and 2268 it’s pretty healthy. And, um, he’s been losin’ a lot of weight. He lost I want to 2269 say, like, 13 pounds in the time that we were hangin’ out. And, honestly, when 2270 you start eatin’ a little bit cleaner and you start workin’ out a little bit harder, 2271 the first couple months - especially for a man, ‘cause they lose weight faster - 2272 it’s not something that’s, like, that drastic, to me, but it did stand out that it 2273 was, like, a little much. And so I was, like, “Whoa. Like, maybe you’re not 2274 eating enough macro nutrients. So let me look at them.” So he had been 2275 working on his My Fitness Pal app and, like, programming, like, all the stuff 2276 he eats. And I just started going through them and I was, like, tryin’ to figure 2277 out, like, where his ratios were wrong. We actually spent a lot of time doing 2278 that, ‘cause he had asked me to do it for him. Um, because I just was at the 2279 point where I was, like, if his weight loss slows down in a few weeks, he’ll be 2280 fine. And if it doesn’t, then his macros are a little off. It’s not, like, that big of 2281 a deal, like, in the workout community. This is, like, a very normal thing, but I 2282 just... 2283 2284 Q: Did you have any other outside concerns? Like, potential drug use? Alcohol 2285 use? Any of that stuff that - that led you do go, “Hey, he’s lost an extreme 2286 amount of weight in such a short period of time”? 2287 2288 A: No, and I wouldn’t call it extreme. It was just, like - it w- it was - it was a lot 2289 but, I mean, I - when I first started workin’ out, I dropped, like, 12 pounds in 2290 two weeks. When I first, first started, like, hittin’ it hard with the diet. So the 2291 fact that he lost, like, that much weight, it wasn’t - like I said, it was - it was 2292 not a surprising amount. I just didn’t want it to be, like, a sustained amount. 2293 But no, I didn’t think anything weird of it just because of, like, how 2294 interknitted I am with the, like, workout community and I know, like, this is 2295 possible. But it just - he - the thing that concerned me about it, I guess - and it 2296 wasn’t even concern, but the thing that, like, kinda red-lighted me, like, “Hey, 2297 this might be con- carrying on,” is the fact that his macros were, like, pretty 2298 dialed in. Like, I had wrote them and he, like, didn’t stay exactly on them, but 2299 his calorie intake was about where it needed to be. My experience, anyways, 2300 for, like, what he was trying to achieve. And so I don’t know. He didn’t seem 2301 to have a problem with it. He liked where he was at with all of that. 2302 2303 Q: So that was your main conversation Saturday? 2304 2305 A: That was, like, a big chunk while we were there. Is, like, us actually going 2306 through - ‘cause I was, like, going through each item. Like, “Why do you have 2307 - why are your ratios off?” 2308 2309 ((Crosstalk)) 2310 2311 Q: Do you know where his kids or wife were that night? 2312 2313 A: On Saturday? 2314 2315 Q: Yeah. His ki- well, you know his kids are with the babysitter. Do you know 2316 where his wife is? 2317 2318 A: She’s in Arizona. 2319 2320 Q: Okay. How do you know that? 2321 2322 A: ‘Cause he told me. 2323 2324 Q: Okay. 2325 2326 ((Crosstalk)) 2327 2328 Q: Do you know what she’s doing there? 2329 2330 A: I think she’s on a business trip. He didn’t even tell me right away. He actually 2331 told me, I think, like, on Saturday or somethin’. 2332 2333 ((Crosstalk)) 2334 2335 Q: Like, during... 2336 2337 ((Crosstalk)) 2338 2339 A: Friday or somethin’. I don’t - I honestly don’t remember. I just remember I 2340 was, like, really surprised. Where he’s, like, “Hey, like, I’m gonna try to get a 2341 babysitter if you want to hang out or somethin’ like that.” And I was, like, 2342 “Why do you need a babysitter? Like, your wife’s home.” He’s, like, “No, 2343 she’s out of town.” I was, like, “Oh.” 2344 2345 Q: Okay. 2346 2347 A: “Okay.” 2348 2349 Q: Was there much conversation regarding that? Her on - bein’ on a trip, or the 2350 children on - during those conversations? 2351 2352 A: Not really. I just asked him what time she was comin’ home on Sunday and he 2353 just said, “Really late.” 2354 2355 Q: Okay. 2356 2357 A: And that was it. I mean, i- i- there’s nothin’ really to talk about with that. 2358 2359 Q: Okay. So your conversations mainly health-related? 2360 2361 A: Mm-hm. 2362 2363 Q: Um, you guys returned to your house and then he goes home. And then you 2364 talked to him for, um, a few hours on Sunday. 2365 2366 A: Did I? Are you asking me or are you telling me? 2367 2368 Q: I’m asking you. 2369 2370 A: Oh. I was, like, I don’t even know. Sunday - honestly - oh, on s- so wait a 2371 minute. That was Saturday. This is the - we’re talking about Saturday. We’re 2372 not talking about Sunday right now. 2373 2374 Q: Okay. So you’re still on Saturday? 2375 2376 A: Yes. This... 2377 2378 Q: You guys have a phone conversation when he gets home? 2379 2380 A: That was the day that he got the babysitter and I went out to dinner. Not on 2381 Sunday. 2382 2383 Q: Okay. 2384 2385 A: Okay. Sorry, I just want to make sure you got... 2386 2387 Q: That’s okay. Yep. 2388 2389 A: ...your days right. So Saturday, yes. We went out. He had the babysitter. He 2390 went home. I’m sure we did. We always talk on the phone and, honestly, I 2391 mean, (Mark) asked me that the other day. He’s, like, “How long were you on 2392 the phone? 15 minutes? 20 minutes?” Like, you’re gonna have to look at the 2393 records, to be honest with you. Like, I’m - so much. 2394 2395 Q: You like to talk. I can tell a little bit. 2396 2397 A: Yeah. 2398 2399 ((Crosstalk)) 2400 2401 A: A little bit. 2402 2403 A1: 400 - when she was young, she’d crank out about 400 words a minute. Gusts, 2404 up to 600. That little thing can yack, man. 2405 2406 Q: You’re a talker. So I’m - I’m lettin’ you talk. Um... 2407 2408 A1: I need to use a restroom. If I can use... 2409 2410 Q: Let me show you where it’s at. 2411 2412 A: Can you get me some water... 2413 2414 Q: So... 2415 2416 A: ...while you’re out there with them, please? 2417 2418 A1: Sure. 2419 2420 A: Thank you. 2421 2422 A1: And another bottle? 2423 2424 Q: That’s... 2425 2426 A: Yeah. At least one. 2427 2428 Q: Let’s move to... 2429 2430 A: Sunday. 2431 2432 Q: ...Sunday, right? Well, let me reverse somethin’. Your conversation with the 2433 children - or about the children, was there ever any talk about medical 2434 concerns with either of the children? 2435 2436 A: All I know is (CiCi) is allergic to pea- not peanuts. Like, pine nuts. Pine nuts. 2437 2438 Q: So she has a nut allergy? 2439 2440 A: Yes. 2441 2442 Q: Did they take meds? 2443 2444 A: He - I know that she had, like, an epi-pen, but as far as I know, she didn’t have 2445 any meds. But I never asked. Like, I was just told, like, she has a pretty severe 2446 allergy. And... 2447 2448 Q: Enough to carry an epi-pen. That’s pretty severe. 2449 2450 A: Yeah. While we’re on this, so when he was in North Carolina, um - this is all, 2451 like, hearsay now, because it’s, like, this is in a conversation. Like, he’s telling 2452 me this stuff, but who knows exactly what happened? But he went out there to 2453 go see his family and her family, and while he was in town, before he went 2454 out to North Carolina, I guess his mother had accidentally, like - not exposed 2455 her to something with nuts, but had, like, given a product - I think it was, like, 2456 ice cream, to a different kid that could have traces of nuts. Or something - I 2457 don’t know. But it was, like, his daughter was fine, but she was, like, in the 2458 range of contamination and I think his wife was very upset about that. And 2459 when he got to North Carolina, he told me that he was supposed to spend, like, 2460 half time with them, half the time with her family, and that was supposed to 2461 be what it was. I don’t know. But he said that he went to go see his family, 2462 and they weren’t answering the phone for, like, a day or two before he went 2463 out there. And then, when he got there, there was a note on the door that said, 2464 uh, “Son, if you stop by, we’re at the beach.” And they ignored him for, like, 2465 most of the time that he was out there. And... 2466 2467 Q: His own family? 2468 2469 A: Yes. His mom, his dad, and his sister. 2470 2471 Q: What’d he - what’s the significance? Do you know under - do you know why? 2472 2473 A: Yeah. He said - and, again, I don’t know what is true... 2474 2475 Q: Mm-hm. 2476 2477 A: ...with this man anymore, and what’s not. But he told me that - like, leading 2478 up to it, I was, like, “Well, why are your folks, like, ignoring you?” And I 2479 was, like, really concerned about this. Like, every single day he would talk to 2480 me when he was out there and I was, like, “You talk to your family today? 2481 You talk to your family today? Did you talk to your dad? What happened? 2482 Did you talk to them?” “No, I didn’t.” Or, “Yeah, I talked to my mom.” 2483 “Well, what’d she say? Are you gonna hang out with them?” Like, I wanted 2484 him to see his people, because it’s important. Family is an important thing, 2485 you know? It just needs to function properly and... 2486 2487 Q: Sure. 2488 2489 A: ...and so I was, like, “Well, um” - and he was, like, “Well, they’re ignoring 2490 me.” And I was, like, “What do you think happened?” And he was, like, “I’m 2491 not really sure, but I think, um, something was said between my wife and 2492 them during that incident.” And he’s, like... 2493 2494 Q: The... 2495 2496 A: “...because every time I...” 2497 2498 Q: ...peanut or... 2499 2500 A: Yes. 2501 2502 Q: ...fruit and nut... 2503 2504 A: That happened before he got there. Yes. And he was, like, “Because every 2505 time that I try to, um - I talk about possibly going over there to see if they’re 2506 home, she gets upset about it.” And I was, like, “Okay.” And he told me that 2507 his mom and his wife did not get along at all. He said that his mom didn’t 2508 even show up to his wedding, because she’s, like, really - did not care for 2509 Shanann. So again, I don’t know what’s true and what’s not, but I just know 2510 that there was, like, some tension there. 2511 2512 Q: Mm-hm. 2513 2514 A: And, again, like, that part is, like - I feel like it’s almost third-party, so that’s 2515 why it’s, like... 2516 2517 Q: Sure. 2518 2519 A: ...I didn’t even worry about...

TIMDAD16AUGROOM 1981 A1: Right but you’re - you’re leading... 1982 1983 Q: Okay. 1984 1985 A1: ...into questions that are nothing with your... 1986 1987 Q: If you didn’t know though... 1988 1989 A1: Wait Nic. 1990 1991 Q: ...that she was there... 1992 1993 A1: Did you hear what I said? 1994 1995 Q: I’m not - I’m following you, I just want her to answer a question that relates to 1996 she said something that’s important that if he didn’t have a child on the way 1997 sh- or if he didn’t - if she didn’t know that she would’ve continued the 1998 relationship, right? 1999 2000 A: But he killed his kids. At what point does he think that I’m gonna be in a 2001 relationship? 2002 2003 Q: I’m not t- I’m not talkin’ about the children. I’m just talking specifically about 2004 her. If i- and if - if you only knew - if the kids were still here and he called 2005 you and said, “I’m divorced from my wife,” and he gets away with this - do 2006 you understand what I’m thinking, from his aspect? 2007 2008 A: I still wouldn’t do it. I still wouldn’t do it, ‘cause I’d be like, “Where did she 2009 go?” 2010 2011 Q: Okay. 2012 2013 A: Because I’m under the impression that she’s a really good mom. Like, he 2014 never bashed her moming skills. Like, he - no. S- no. I wouldn’t - no. 2015 2016 Q: Okay. 2017 2018 A: No. 2019 2020 Q: And that’s - that - you see where I’m tryin’ to take that? 2021 2022 A: Yes. 2023 2024 Q: So he never - you guys never had a conversation about the child, period? 2026 A: I didn’t know. 2027 2028 Q: Okay. 2029 2030 A: At all. 2031 2032 Q: All right. And, by your words, if you did know, you would’ve ended the 2033 relationship? 2034 2035 A: Well, because it wouldn’t of made sense to me. That he’s, like, “I’m getting 2036 separated. Oh, by the way, I have a baby on the way.” It’s, like... 2037 2038 Q: That’s 15 weeks. 2039 2040 A: “...You are a liar. You’re just tryin’ to sleep with me.” That’s what I would’ve 2041 probably interpreted that as, and I’d a just shut that off at work, and that 2042 would’ve been the end of it. 2043 2044 Q: Okay. Um, all right. We can move past that. Um, the week that he comes back 2045 from North Carolina, you - you don’t remember, somewhere in the first 2046 couple weeks of August? 2047 2048 A: Yeah. I think it was the second week, but I don’t remember... 2049 2050 Q: Okay. 2051 2052 A: ...off the top of my head. 2053 2054 Q: So we’ll just use August as a timeframe. Is that fair? Because you know... 2055 2056 A: Mm-hm. 2057 2058 Q: ...he left in July, and he comes back in August. How many times do you think 2059 you see him? 2060 2061 A: I saw him a few times. I saw him this past Saturday. I saw him the Wednesday 2062 before that. And he wanted to see me more. I was the one who wanted my 2063 space. I was, like, “Nope. Your kids are home. Go hang out with your kids.” 2064 And even on Wednesday, I cut it short. Like, he came and hang out with me 2065 for a few hours and then I was, like, “Go chill with your kids.” 2066 2067 Q: Okay. 2068 2069 A: Um, I was always, like, really respectful of his kids. 2071 Q: Do you know, specifically, where you guys me- went? Did you meet at your 2072 hours? Did you guys go to, uh, any restaurants? Did you go to establishments? 2073 Where’d you go? 2074 2075 A: Um, last Wednesday he came to my house and this past Saturday, we went to, 2076 um - what is the name of that bar that we used to go to? It’s not the same - The 2077 Lazy Dog, but it’s the one off of 144th and I-25. I think it’s 144th. Up there. 2078 2079 Q: And it’s The Lazy Dog? 2080 2081 A: Yes. 2082 2083 Q: Um, did he ever mention a Rocky’s game that night? 2084 2085 A: Um, no. I don’t think so. But there was a - there was a, um - the Broncos were 2086 playing. 2087 2088 Q: Okay. 2089 2090 A: Which we couldn’t see, ‘cause they sat us in really crappy spots. But it’s okay, 2091 ‘cause it’s pre-season. But, um... 2092 2093 Q: So you we- do you recall what time you went there? 2094 2095 A: Hm, no. I remember - well, kind of. So he had to get a babysitter that night. 2096 2097 Q: Do you know who that was? 2098 2099 A: Uh, somebody who’s really young. I remember I asked him who his babysitter 2100 was, and he’s, like, “We have two. This girl’s only 17, but the other one’s out 2101 of town. So this girl’s gonna stay, and she doesn’t do overnights. So I gotta be 2102 back by 10:00.” 2103 2104 Q: Okay. 2105 2106 A: And I remember her sayin’ that, and him sayin’ that. And I - I don’t know 2107 what time he got to my house. It was between I want to say, like, 5:30. It 2108 might’ve been 5:00, but I don’t think so. ‘Cause I think the babysitter, if I 2109 remember correctly, showed up at, like, 4:30 or something and he was, like, “I 2110 want to spend time getting my kids acclimated to her. And then I will come.” 2111 2112 Q: So her chi- his children didn’t even know her? 2113 2114 A: Oh, no. They knew her, but he was saying, like, he likes to, like, stay there for 2115 a little while. While - he doesn’t just, like, walk out the door... 2116 2117 Q: Okay. 2118 2119 A: ...when they show up. It’s, like, a transitional thing. And so, um, that’s why 2120 I’m sayin’ I don’t know how long that was. I want to say, like, 5:30. And then 2121 he had to be back by 10:00, so he left at, like, 9:00-somethin’ to be back by 2122 10:00. 2123 2124 ((Crosstalk)) 2125 2126 Q: So how did he show up? What was he driving? 2127 2128 A: No. He didn’t pick me up. He came to my house. We drove my truck. 2129 2130 Q: Okay. So you - he gets to your house. You know what he was driving to get to 2131 your house? 2132 2133 A: Um, off the top of my head, I don’t remember. Um, h- I’m pretty sure he 2134 usually drives that Lexus, but he doesn’t always park it in my complex, ‘cause 2135 the parking - there’s not good spaces. So where you guys picked me up at, a 2136 lot of times he’ll just park out there, because there’s room. 2137 2138 Q: Okay. 2139 2140 A: Um, so that kinda works so that he’s - ‘cause there’s just not a lot of room in 2141 my apartment complex. Um, but off the top of my head, I don’t know what he 2142 was driving. 2143 2144 Q: What kinda truck do you drive? 2145 2146 A: I drive a, uh, Toyota 4 Runner. 2147 2148 Q: Okay. So you guys take your 4 Runner to The Lazy Dog? 2149 2150 A: Yep. 2151 2152 Q: And you said they sat you in crappy location? And where... 2153 2154 ((Crosstalk)) 2155 2156 A: It just... 2157 2158 Q: Where were you put inside the bar? 2159 2160 A: We were - when you walk in, you just hang a right and we were, like, one of

TIMDAD16AUGROOM 1621 1622 Q: Way too much? 1623 1624 A: Way, way, way, way too... 1625 1626 Q: Did he ever discuss with you any of those issues? 1627 1628 A: I mean a little, I mean I didn’t know about the bankruptcy or any of that ‘til I 1629 read on the newspaper about that but he just - he - I think he was really 1630 frustrated with the situation. Um, he told me, he’s like, “You know, I feel like 1631 my paycheck goes in my bank account and I just watch it go like this,” he’s 1632 like, “But it doesn’t have to,” he’s like, “She makes it like that.” And I was 1633 just like... 1634 1635 Q: So was he resentful for that? 1636 1637 A: I don’t know if he was resentful, I just think he was frustrated by the fact that 1638 they could be doing a lot better financially and she -- from the vibe that I got - 1639 - had really bad spending habits. 1640 1641 Q: So she was a spender. Um, the car hers or his? 1642 1643 A: I think it’s hers. 1644 1645 Q: Okay. 1646 1647 A: I’m pretty sure that that’s hers. 1648 1649 Q: Do you know what other car they might have? 1650 1651 A: Well I mean his APC pickup truck. 1652 1653 Q: And that’s - that... 1654 1655 A: That’s it I think. 1656 1657 Q: ...and that’s owned by Anadarko though, right? 1658 1659 A: Yeah. 1660 1661 Q: So... 1662 1663 A: But so I don’t - I don’t think they own any other vehicles as far as I know. I 1664 think it’s just that thing. 1666 Q: And - and - and Anadarko who doesn’t allow him to drive that on his own 1667 personal, right? 1668 1669 A: No. No. 1670 1671 Q: So he’s just got one vehicle... 1672 1673 A: Yeah. 1674 1675 Q: ...um, and it’s a very expensive Lexus. Um, and then they live in a pretty 1676 expensive house, I... 1677 1678 A: It’s a huge house. 1679 1680 Q: Yeah. Yeah. 1681 1682 A: I was very taken back, when I saw it I was just like whoa, how do you guys... 1683 1684 Q: And then the fixtures inside caused you to pause... 1685 1686 A: Everything. Everything was just like... 1687 1688 Q: And you mentioned today you read something about, uh, bankruptcy... 1689 1690 A: Yeah. 1691 1692 Q: ...what did you read? 1693 1694 A: That those guys filed bankruptcy for a lot of money and... 1695 1696 Q: Who are those guys? 1697 1698 A: Two tho- that couple. 1699 1700 Q: Okay. 1701 1702 A: In 2015. Oh Shanann and Chris... 1703 1704 Q: Thanks. 1705 1706 A: ...filed bankruptcy in 2015. 1707 1708 Q: Okay. And you said for a lot of money, do you recall the amount? 1709 1710 A: No because it was different in each of the newspapers and I don’t know which 1711 one to believe so... 1712 1713 Q: Okay. 1714 1715 A: Hundreds of thousands of dollars. So, um, yeah I didn’t know that. 1716 1717 Q: So let’s go just back though, him and the financial, he tells you - or he has a 1718 concern enough to at least express some con- something to you that he’s 1719 frustrated with the way she spends or he’s upset with working so hard and 1720 never having any money and she’s kind of the responsibility, she’s the 1721 responsible party for spending most of the money? 1722 1723 A: I - I pretty much got that vibe. I mean he just told me, he’s like, “We’re house 1724 broke all the time.” And I was just like, “That’s unfortunate,” and I asked him, 1725 I was like, “Do you have 401K,” and he was like, “Yeah.” And I mean the 1726 reason I ask him this is because if I get in a relationship with somebody I want 1727 to know like what kind of baggage that they have, I think that’s important if I 1728 walk into a situation where I’m like hey I have good credit and I have all of 1729 these things that I’ve been building and you don’t have your stuff together like 1730 what are we gonna do with this. And it’s important for your - your long term 1731 thing. 1732 1733 Q1: You’re smart. 1734 1735 A: So I’m preparing. And so I just asked him, I was like, “Well do you have 1736 401K?” And he was like - he’s like, “Yeah I do have that.” And then I asked 1737 him, I was like, um, I - I didn’t ask him like how much that they had or 1738 anything but I just said, “Is your lifestyle sustainable?” And he was like, 1739 “No.” 1740 1741 Q: Okay. 1742 1743 A: And I was like, “How long do you think that’s gonna take?” He’s like, “I 1744 don’t know but it’s not sustainable.” 1745 1746 Q1: Where did his girls go to school? 1747 1748 A: I don’t know. He never actually told me, like when I gave - I asked him once, 1749 it was like when I was trying to find him an apartment I was like, “Are you 1750 comfortable telling me where your girls go to school,” that’s in the text too, I 1751 was like, “So I can figure out what distance from the apartment it is.” I was 1752 trying to just make his life convenient with like him, his ex, his kids and all 1753 the stuff that he needs to do and work. Um, and he was like, “Don’t worry 1754 about it, their school is pretty centrally located so anywhere in the area that we 1755 were discussing will be fine.” And he just left it at that. So he didn’t even tell 1756 me which was fine, I respect that. 1757 1758 Q: Daycare is obviously very expensive for a 2 and - 3 and 5 year old. 1759 1760 A: Oh yeah. 1761 1762 Q: Right. So... 1763 1764 A: I understand. 1765 1766 Q: ...did he ever bring, uh, any - did he ever discuss that? 1767 1768 A: Never. 1769 1770 Q: Okay. 1771 1772 A: Never. Um - uh, like the only - like I said, the only financial thing he ever said 1773 is just like, “She just likes to spend money. Like a lot of it.” 1774 1775 Q: Okay. 1776 1777 A: So that was just kind of the vibe that I got from that and that it was just - it 1778 was a lifestyle that she liked to live, like very like materialistic kind of 1779 lifestyle. Like it was... 1780 1781 Q: Wanted to project a certain image... 1782 1783 A: Yes. All the time. And he said that that was why they got that house too, he’s 1784 like, “She wants everybody to think that we live a certain way and that we can 1785 like sustain all this stuff,” and he’s like, “And we can’t.” And I told him, I 1786 said, “When you’re in those situations why don’t you,” I’m like, “Do you - do 1787 you like voice your concern about this?” And he told me, he’s like, “When I 1788 try to talk to her,” he’s like, “She’s really bossy and she usually shuts me out,” 1789 and he’s like, “When she does that,” he’s like, “I just let it go.” And I was just 1790 like, “All right,” I mean I don’t - I don’t try to like interfere with how those 1791 two interact. But I didn’t ask about it ‘cause I’m just curious ‘cause I would 1792 never put myself in a situation where someone was like, “You know what, 1793 we’re gonna live in this house that cost like double what we can afford and 1794 that’s how it’s gonna be ‘cause I want everybody to think we’re fancy.” 1795 ‘Cause I wouldn’t do that. I mean to me like I wouldn’t put up with somebody 1796 doing that to me, and I’m not saying that that’s what she was doing. I mean 1797 for all I know he could’ve been completely lying about this, he could be the 1798 one spending all the money. 1799 1800 Q: Sure. 1801 1802 A: You know? 1803 1804 Q: This is just what he told you. 1805 1806 A: Exactly. So I mean that’s as far as I can interrupt it so I can’t be like, “Well oh 1807 she needs to do this and she needs to do that,” but he - he, you know, he just - 1808 he voiced his concern where it’s just like, “Financially I’m in a very bad spot 1809 that I... 1810 1811 Q: Okay. 1812 1813 A: ...don’t need to be in but I’m stuck in,” and that was kind of where he was at. 1814 So - but I mean he was never like mean when he talked about her, he was 1815 never hostile, like nothing like that. He just - I mean very calmly like this is 1816 the situation and I think the only reason that he even provided me with that 1817 information is because I asked. 1818 1819 Q: Okay. You said something, um, about her being controlling or... 1820 1821 A: Bossy. 1822 1823 Q: ...bossy... 1824 1825 A: That’s what he said, bossy. 1826 1827 Q: ...um, in like a lot of aspects of their life or what - do you know exactly what 1828 he meant by that, how that affected him? 1829 1830 A: I think he was just saying when he voices his opinion it’s not heard, is - is the 1831 gist of that. Which I thought from what it sounded like from their separation 1832 from them trying to separate that that was a big deal for him where he was 1833 saying that the reason that they don’t really get along anymore is because he 1834 feels like he’s not heard. 1835 1836 Q: Okay. 1837 1838 A: He says that he, you know, he comes home from work and he tries to talk to 1839 her and she’ll just be like, “One minute, I’m on the phone.” Or she’ll like 1840 scroll through social media and she like doesn’t acknowledge him. And, um, 1841 he said that he had addressed it with her a few times and their calm, he said 1842 they don’t really fight, like they don’t scream and yell. Um, and he said he had 1843 addressed it with her a few times and he said it just fell on deaf ears, he’s like, 1844 “She just seems like she’s not interested anymore,” and I think it made him 1845 sad because I mean he was like all about his kids and he seemed like he was 1846 trying to be all about her but it just wasn’t reciprocated and I think at that 1847 point he was just like I don’t - that it’s just they just kind of like fell apart. 1848 1849 Q: Okay. 1850 1851 A: Just kind of drifted apart. But it was... 1852 1853 Q: Was that your wor- was that your words or his? 1854 1855 A: What, that they... 1856 1857 Q: Fell apart. 1858 1859 A: That - I - those are mine. 1860 1861 Q: Okay. 1862 1863 A: Those are mine. He just said that they didn’t communicate very well. And it 1864 wasn’t in a - like a aggressive way communicate, it was just the fact that they 1865 didn’t like communicate at all. 1866 1867 Q: They just... 1868 1869 A: They didn’t talk. 1870 1871 Q: And they had children and they - did - did - do - was there ever mention that 1872 he was trying to resolve or, uh, save his marriage to - for the children’s sake? 1873 Yo- a lot of people talk... 1874 1875 A: Yes. 1876 1877 Q: ...about that, did he talk about that? 1878 1879 A: Yes. I mean he told me that he believed that the only reason that those two 1880 had still been doin’ it as long as they’ve been doing - ‘cau- he told me that her 1881 and him have had communication issues for about six years where she just 1882 seems really like detached and uninterested in like trying to like build 1883 something with him. Um, and he said - and I said, “Six years is a really long 1884 time for you guys to not fix that,” considering they were married for what, 1885 eight? I mean that’s like the majority of their marriage. And he said, um, 1886 “Sometimes I think we just do it for the kids,” or something like that. I mean 1887 it’s been a long time since I’ve seen... 1888 1889 Q: Sure. 1891 A: ...these conversations so I don’t know like verbatim but... 1892 1893 Q: And that’s - we’re trying... 1894 1895 A: ...it was pretty much just like... 1896 1897 Q: ...get you to remember sometimes. 1898 1899 A: Yeah like but he said it wasn’t just him though, he was like - I think she does 1900 that too... 1901 1902 Q: Okay. 1903 1904 A: ...you know, I mean and it was like this equal part where they are just kind of 1905 like goin’ through the motions I think. 1906 1907 Q: Mm-hm. 1908 1909 A: And so like when he told me that she was cool with like the 50% everything 1910 and just like breakin’ it off and being really civil about it it - it kind of made 1911 sense to me ‘cause I was like the way he made this sound it wasn’t oh she’s 1912 this horrible person or oh I’m this horrible person, it was, “Her and I have 1913 drifted so far apart that it’s kind of a mutual agreement that this is not gonna 1914 work.” 1915 1916 Q: So in those six years though they had two children... 1917 1918 A: Yep. 1919 1920 Q: ...um, and you said earlier you did not know she was pregnant until reading 1921 the newspaper... 1922 1923 A: Yep. 1924 1925 Q: ...so, um, that never came up in any conversation... 1926 1927 A: Never. 1928 1929 Q: ...um, there was no - no indications that that was going on... 1930 1931 A: None. 1932 1933 Q: ...um, he never hinted to anything like that? 1934 1935 A: Nothing. 1936 1937 Q: As far as you knew, um, he was just leading her, he had two children and, um, 1938 that was the final take on that? 1939 1940 A: Yes. 1941 1942 Q: Okay. 1943 1944 A: I think - I know why he lied to me, he lied to me because if I’d have known 1945 that he had a child on the way I would have never wasted my time with him in 1946 the first place, like none of this would have ever even occurred if he would 1947 have just told me the truth. 1948 1949 Q: So do you think if he found out that you, um - if, let’s say this week you guys 1950 were to go look at some apartments -- and this is hypothetical -- but you, um, 1951 you’ve never found out that his wife was pregnant, would - would that have 1952 changed anything? Uh, like you just said, “If I knew he was - his wife was 1953 pregnant I wouldn’t be in this picture,” so if his wife was not pregnant, um, 1954 and forgive me but if - if he takes her out of the picture you’re never gonna 1955 know that she was pregnant, right? 1956 1957 A: What do you mean takes her out of the picture, like... 1958 1959 Q: If - if he murdered her she’s out of the picture, you’re never gonna know if 1960 she was pregnant. If he can get away with murder you’re not gonna - I got 1961 divorced from my wife... 1962 1963 A1: Wait... 1964 1965 Q: You said - do you understand what I’m saying here? If - if she’s gone... 1966 1967 A: But this... 1968 1969 A1: Don’t lead. 1970 1971 Q: Hypothetically... 1972 1973 A1: Please. Don’t lead on. 1974 1975 Q: Yeah hypothetically if she... 1976 1977 A1: Okay. 1978 1979 Q: ...you understand where I’m going? If you didn’t know...

TIMDAD16AUGROOM 1531 thing with his kids, I was just like, you know, like - and I - and we’d talk 1532 about things every once in a while where I - you know, I’d be like, “Hey if I 1533 ever meet,” you know, ‘cause like I have a lot of house plants is a good 1534 example, so I have a lot of house plants and I told - I told him, I was like, 1535 “One day if I ever meet your kids,” I was like, “I’m gonna show these girls 1536 how to like paint pottery and plant some plants.” I was like, “I think they 1537 would love to see something grow that they build, I think it would be really, 1538 really cute.” And like little stuff like that but it wasn’t very frequent, it wasn’t, 1539 “Hey we should get married,” and, “Hey we should have babies,” and, “Hey I 1540 want to live with you,” and, “Hey I need to meet your children now,” and, 1541 “Let’s cut the mom out,” it was never like that. 1542 1543 Q: Okay. And that was - it - there was never any conversation about, you know, 1544 “We can’t do this with her around, we can’t do this with the kids around”? 1545 1546 A: Never. 1547 1548 Q: He never said that... 1549 1550 A: No. 1551 1552 Q: ...you never said that? 1553 1554 A: No. No. 1555 1556 Q: So there - there - the way you guys were trying to make this work was just, 1557 you know, slowly trying to come together because of his current situation and 1558 by your account your own... 1559 1560 A: Mine. I mean I don’t want to rush. 1561 1562 Q: ...you’re - you’re just a - a independent person it sounds like pretty much. 1563 1564 A: Yeah. 1565 1566 Q: And, uh, but through text message or through conversation he never said, uh, 1567 “Hey, uh, you know, this is gonna be financial able - I’m not gonna be 1568 financially able to do this,” or, “This isn’t a good thing, I got these kids,” none 1569 - none of those conversations ever came up? 1570 1571 A: No. I mean he told me like he had a budget restriction so for his apartment -- 1572 and I’m pretty sure this is in the text and this will probably be in the last 1573 couple weeks -- um, he told me $1100 to $1400 when I was asking him. Like 1574 ‘cause I told him I’d help him do homework, I was like, “You do some 1575 homework, I’ll do some homework, we’ll knock this out because if you guys 1576 are for real putting the house up you gotta figure it out.” Um, and so that was 1577 his budget and I remember asking him, I was like, “Are you sure you don’t 1578 want to just get like a house?” And he’s like, “I never thought about a house.” 1579 I’m like, “Yeah you can rent houses man, like it’s a thing,” and he’s just like, 1580 “I don’t know if I can afford that.” I was like, “Okay.” And I knew that those 1581 two had been some financial trouble, I definitely found out a lot more about 1582 that situation in, uh, newspaper recently. Um... 1583 1584 Q: Okay so prior to the newspaper how did you know he was in financial 1585 difficulty? 1586 1587 A: ‘Cause he - I mean I - when I went to that house everything in there is very, 1588 very, very, very nice, it looks like it all comes with a very expensive price tag. 1589 And, uh, I didn’t say anything to him about it but I could kind of tell then 1590 where I was just looking at everything like how do you guys afford this. And 1591 then he has that car, that’s - I don’t even know how much that car costs but I 1592 bet its... 1593 1594 Q: What car - what car is that? 1595 1596 A: That Lexus. I’m sure that thing cost like 80 grand. But just like money, like 1597 everything just looked like it cost a lot of money in that house. 1598 1599 Q: You probably have a decent idea of how much money he makes. 1600 1601 A: Yeah and it’s not enough money to pay for all that, not even close. 1602 1603 Q: And did you have any idea what, um, Shanann did for a living or how much 1604 money she might’ve made? 1605 1606 A: I mean I had an idea, I don’t - I mean I would consider her like a sales rep, I 1607 don’t know how else to describe that. Um, for the company that she worked 1608 for and, uh, I don’t know exactly how much she made. He said that she was 1609 really competitive and she like to try to keep up with him. He’s like, “She gets 1610 close sometimes.” So I don’t know how much those two brought in. I mean 1611 off the top of my head if I could guess, probably somewhere around like 1612 $140K a year. I mean I don’t know. ‘Cause I don’t know exactly how much 1613 he makes and I don’t know exactly how much she makes. But based just off of 1614 what I know about the oil field, like yeah I - I would say that’s probably an 1615 accurate estimate. 1616 1617 Q: So he - even if they’re makin’ let’s just use the figure $100,000, they’re living 1618 above they’re means or below their means? 1619 1620 A: Oh - oh my God, like...

TIMDAD16AUGROOM 1261 1262 Q: Okay. 1263 1264 A: I’m sure if I thought real hard maybe I could think about it but I mean come 1265 up with it, no I don’t know. 1266 1267 Q: All right. So he goes there, how - do you re- you said it was like the last week 1268 of July? 1269 1270 A: I think so, I think it was like one of the last days of July. I’m almost positive, I 1271 think it was a weekday. 1272 1273 Q: Okay. 1274 1275 A: Um, yeah he flew out there and I thought I had like convinced him to like try 1276 to make peace with her and I was like, “If you guys work on this like I’m out 1277 ‘cause what’s the point? Like I’m not trying to be with somebody that’s in 1278 another relationship,” which I know that sounds silly given the whole 1279 relationship that we had in the first place but I really was under the impression 1280 that they were separating. I mean it was like reiterated to me so many times 1281 that that’s what I thought it was. And it made sense to me too because like he 1282 could pretty much call me whenever he wanted, like I was the one that would 1283 tell him like, “Hey when your kids are awake you need to spend time with 1284 your kids. Like do that. And then after they go to bed like if you want to talk 1285 to me you can talk to me.” But it was never like this super, super restricted 1286 thing. Like sometimes like right after work if I was like still talking to him I’d 1287 get kind of bummed out and I’d, you know, I’d tell him, I’d just be like oh it’s 1288 frustrating sometimes like having to like wait. But at the same time I was 1289 never like this is horrible or, you know, it was always like I understood why. 1290 But then once his kids were asleep he never like had any - it was like he could 1291 do what he wanted. Do you know what I’m saying? Like he was in... 1292 1293 Q: Sure. 1294 1295 A: ...his basement and she’s upstairs and they’re not speaking. So it kind of made 1296 sense, it wasn’t like sneaky... 1297 1298 Q: And you guys are just texting and... 1299 1300 A: We’re talking or whatever, you know... 1301 1302 Q: Sure. 1303 1304 A: ...I mean and it was just - it was like I said, it was at certain times but that ti- 1305 and originally it wasn’t but it was me that put that timeframe on there because 1306 I thought he should hang out with his kids. Um... 1307 1308 Q1: Those two times that you were at his house did you see any evidence of that, 1309 him living in the basement? Did he ever show you that area (unintelligible)? 1310 1311 A: I’ve seen it, yeah I went down there and saw his - his little workout equipment 1312 and there’s a bed down there all set up, and the basement was all clean and 1313 organized and stuff so, um, like a - like a decent bed setup so it made sense to 1314 me like hey this is - this is what’s happening down here. Um, so I saw it. 1315 Um... 1316 1317 Q1: Even though his family was in Nor- North Carolina for multiple weeks it 1318 appeared that he was still living in the basement? 1319 1320 A: Mm-hm. 1321 1322 Q1: Hm. 1323 1324 A: Well and he told me sometimes he would like go upstairs and sleep if - if like 1325 he was home alone ‘cause I know she’d like go on business trips and stuff. 1326 But he’s like, “I don’t like that bed anyways,” so he didn’t really like to sleep 1327 up there. I was like okay. Um, even when it was just him. So that was the 1328 impression that I got. Um, I don’t know what we were talking about, North 1329 Carolina? 1330 1331 Q: Let’s - yeah go - go back to North Carolina. 1332 1333 A: So North Carolina. Um, so he still made very frequent communication with 1334 me when he was out there and at one point he told me that they sat down and 1335 they talked about it and he told her that he wanted to either fix things or - like 1336 to try to fix things and if she didn’t want to fix them then they needed to like 1337 move forward with the separation and like actually file for a divorce at this 1338 point, was - was the impression that I got from this and just what he told me. 1339 And so, um, he said that she was like pretty receptive to like just not trying. 1340 He was like, “She seemed like she just wants me to go.” He’s like, “When she 1341 has her mind made up, she has her mind made up and that’s what she want,” 1342 and he’s like, “She doesn’t want to try anymore,” and he’s like, “And neither 1343 do I really.” And he was like, “It’s done,” and he’s like, um - and then the 1344 next day - I don’t even know what days these were, some time when he was 1345 out there. He told me, um, “We’re putting the house up for sale as soon as we 1346 get back.” And I was like, “Whoa that was quick.” And he was like, “It’s her, 1347 she’s ready to go.” And I was like, “Okay.” And so I left it at that and then, 1348 um, he got back and I started askin’ him like, “What are you gonna do? 1349 Because the Colorado housing market is fire and you guys are gonna sell this 1350 house like real fast,” and I’m like, “You need to start looking for new places 1351 to live.” And I’m like, “Where do you want to live?” And I was really trying 1352 to help him out, I’m like, “Do you want to get a house? Do you want three 1353 bedrooms so you have one and each of your girls have one?” I’m like, “Do 1354 you want to, you know, like do you want an apartment? Like what do you 1355 want, you know, where do you want to live?” Because he’s in Frederick but 1356 that whole area over there is just like a bunch of small towns and you can kind 1357 of just pick and choose, everything’s kind of, you know, and so, um, he told 1358 me, “Well I like Brighton,” and I was like, “Okay.” And then he told me he 1359 wanted a two-bedroom apartment and he said he wanted one room for him 1360 and the other room for his two girls. And I thought it was kind of cute, like I 1361 remember telling him, I was like, “Yeah me and my sister had bunk beds like 1362 at my dad’s house,” and I was like, “When we were little girls.” When we 1363 were - me and my sister are the same age apart as him and his - I mean as his 1364 two daughters, you know, so I told him, I was like, “They’re gonna love it.” I 1365 was like, “They might be like stuck in - in one room together,” I was like, 1366 “But they’ll become like best buddies.” And it was really exciting, like I liked 1367 helping him and I just wanted him to like - I don’t know. This is what he told 1368 me he wanted so I was like, “Well I will help you do the research.” But 1369 another thing that I really took care of was to be like where is she moving to? 1370 I was never like, “You know what, screw your wife, try to get full custody,” 1371 none of that bullshit. It was always just like, you know, I’d ask him, I’m like, 1372 “Well what kind of custody are you guys gonna have,” ‘cause he sa- he - at 1373 work they’re about to switch his schedule so right now he’s like a Monday 1374 through Friday and they’re about to switch these guys to eight days on, six 1375 days off... 1376 1377 Q: Mm, that’s tough. 1378 1379 A: That’s awesome. And I - and I was - so I was tellin’ - I was askin’ him, I was 1380 like, “Are you gonna have your kids like on that set of days off?” 1381 1382 Q: Mm-hm. 1383 1384 A: I was like, “‘Cause that would work perfect, like one week on, one week off,” 1385 and I was just like, you know, we had just talked about it and I’m like, “What 1386 is your plan?” And he’s like, “We haven’t figured out exactly what we’re 1387 gonna do about the kids yet,” but he told me, he’s like, “Colorado’s a 50-50 1388 state and she’s okay with everything 50-50.” Like he said that she was like on 1389 board with this because she wanted it too, like she was checked out of this 1390 relationship. So that was like how he made this sound, that it was like a very 1391 like kosher we’re done kind of thing and... 1392 1393 Q: Did you ever give him like books or articles or anything to read about saving 1394 your marriage? Did you ever provide anything to him like that? 1396 A: About saving his marriage? 1397 1398 Q: Yeah like how to recover a marriage or how to save a marriage or, you know, 1399 there’s - there’s all sorts of publications and books out there. 1400 1401 A: No. No but I did tell him - and I don’t know if I did this through text or phone, 1402 that will be something you guys will I’m sure figure out. Um, but I would tell 1403 - I told him a few times like, “I think that you should take the time to read 1404 some articles, uh, about, um, what separation does to kids.” You know, and I 1405 told him, I said, “When my parents separated we were literally like 3 and 5,” 1406 we were almost the exact same age as these little girls. And I told him, I said, 1407 “You know, I was so young when it happened that it didn’t really have like a 1408 big negative effect on me because I was so small that I really didn’t process it 1409 too well.” I was like, “But I do have cousins that their parents got divorced 1410 when they were like 10, 11, and I think that it hit ‘em a little harder, you 1411 know,” and I - and he’s like, “Oh they’ll be fine,” you know, and I told em, I 1412 was like, “Even though they’re small and you think that they’ll be fine,” I was 1413 like, “I think you guys should just read about it just so that you guys are 1414 prepared in case, yo know, one of these two starts having a hard time with the 1415 fact that you guys aren’t in the same house anymore.” You know, an- and - 1416 and I would tell him, I was like, “You know, there’s pros and cons to it, like,” 1417 ‘cause he was like getting ready to do it and it would be like, you know, it’s 1418 kind of cool havin’ two Christmases and, you know, like your parents get to 1419 go, you know, be happy doing whatever it is they want to do with their lives 1420 and they don’t have to be in a situation that’s probably not good for the kids 1421 because it’s not good for those two. You know, but at the same time it was 1422 like just read, like that’s what I always used to tell him, I’d always tell him to 1423 like - I - I tell people to read about everything, reading is so good for you. 1424 1425 Q: So he at this time is telling you that yeah I am the guy trying to save the 1426 marriage and she doesn’t want it? 1427 1428 A: That’s what he told me. That’s what he told me so... 1429 1430 Q: Okay. 1431 1432 A: ...um, and he - yeah and then he was like, “She doesn’t want it so I’m not 1433 gonna do it.” And then it was like, “We’re filing for divorce, we’re selling the 1434 house,” and this was like all as soon as they were comin’ back from North 1435 Carolina, like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And... 1436 1437 Q: Well do you recall when he gets back from North Carolina? 1438 1439 A: No. I don’t even know how long he was out there, I know it was like less than 1440 two weeks and more than one. 1441 1442 Q: Okay. 1443 1444 A: I don’t remember. 1445 1446 Q: So he’s - he comes back early August, would that be fair? 1447 1448 A: Oh yeah, it was definitely like in the first two weeks somewhere. 1449 1450 Q: All right. 1451 1452 A: Probably the second week of August at some point. And then I don’t 1453 remember when... 1454 1455 Q: Does his wife come back with him at that time or does he... 1456 1457 A: Yeah they all came back. 1458 1459 Q: They all come back at the same time. 1460 1461 A: They all came back. Um, and then, uh, yeah so he - he continues to just, you 1462 know, tell me that this is like what he wants and - and so I took the time - and 1463 you will see that in the text too where I like - like there - like I found this 1464 apartment, it was perfect, it was so cute, I was like, “It’s in your price range, 1465 it’s like 6 miles from the gym, it’s 23 miles from work,” I’m like, “You know, 1466 it’s super close to Frederick, it’s gonna be by your kids’ school, like this is - 1467 this is the spot,” you know, and - and - and I told him, I was like, “I’ll keep 1468 looking for more places,” and he’s like, “Well there some that I want to go see 1469 too.” And he actually had me thinking that he was gonna go look at these 1470 places this week before all this sh- stuff... 1471 1472 Q: Oh so this is fairly recent then if we’re talking... 1473 1474 A: Oh this just happened like in the last couple weeks. 1475 1476 Q: He’s gonna go look at apartments during... 1477 1478 A: He wanted me to go with him. 1479 1480 Q: When you say this week are you saying... 1481 1482 A: Like this - this week. 1483 1484 Q: ...Monday was the 13th... 1486 A: Like this week. 1487 1488 Q: Okay. 1489 1490 A: Yeah so I told him, I was like, “Well pick out a few spots and if you want me 1491 to come with you I’ll go look at ‘em but you, you know...” 1492 1493 Q: You said earlier that he had never, um - or that the - the apartment wasn’t for 1494 you and him, it was just for him and his children. 1495 1496 A: Oh yes. 1497 1498 Q: It wasn’t - you weren’t in- had no intentions of moving in with him? 1499 1500 A: No. I have my own spot, I still have a lease there ‘til July, and even then like 1501 he never asked me to move in with him... 1502 1503 Q: Okay. 1504 1505 A: ...and I never tried to move in with him. I mean I told him - I mean I really 1506 tried to take everything with this whole situation very slow. The only part that 1507 I screwed up on was the fact that he wasn’t completely separated from her 1508 when him and I decided to spend time with each other. That is where I 1509 screwed up. But other than that everything else it was always like, you know, 1510 you build your life, I’m gonna build my life, we will intertwine them but I am 1511 not ready to like do this. And he respected that and I - and I, um, I even said 1512 that and I don’t know, I - that might be in the text but (unintelligible) that 1513 Chris like, “You need space, like you’re just getting out of a divorce, like 1514 personally I think jumping into a new relationship is a little quick.” I was like, 1515 “I was in a relationship earlier this year and I think this is also a little quick.” 1516 And I’m like, “So why don’t we take our time?” And I’m like, “If you guys 1517 end up doing a week on, a week off with your kids,” I’m like, “The week you 1518 have your kids be with your children. And the week that you don’t,” I’m like, 1519 “I don’t even want to see you every day,” I’m like, “I think we should spend 1520 like a few days of that together,” I’m like, “‘Cause I like my space and I think 1521 you need your space, I think you need your space to like develop your identity 1522 again and like get it back,” because I think he’s just been like so wrapped up 1523 in this whole thing that he’s got in his own life - in his life that he - I mean he 1524 doesn’t remember probably what it’s like to like be single or have time where 1525 it’s like just him. 1526 1527 Q: Sure. 1528 1529 A: And so I was just like, you know, like embrace that. I think it’s a beautiful 1530 thing and I really try to like take it smart with all that. And it was the same

TIMDAD16AUGROOM 901 Q: So I’m gonna put, um... 902 903 A: So the time and date of the phone call records and then our text message on 904 those. 905 906 Q: Text... 907 908 Q1: Could we get photos of him? 909 910 A Huh? 911 912 Q1: Could we get photos of him? 913 914 A: Off of that? 915 916 Q1: Would you mind if we got his photos that he sent to you? 917 918 A: Well they’ll be in that text message thing. 919 920 Q: So all of his photos were sent - there was no apps or anything else... 921 922 A: No. No, no, no, no, no. 923 924 Q: ...you used that you guys were sending? 925 926 A: No. 927 928 Q: It was all just text messages? 929 930 A: Yeah. 931 932 Q: Okay. So it’d be an attachment to a text that he sent you? 933 934 A: Pretty much. 935 936 Q: But... 937 938 A: Ev- everything is in the text and the phone call records. 939 940 Q: So... 941 942 A: Like all of it. 943 944 Q: ...because we don’t have it on tape, we discussed prior to turning the tape on, 945 um, on Tuesday which would’ve been the 14th of August, um, you had read 946 some newspapers articles on the 13th and the 14th that regarded this case, you 947 had also had a conversation with Chris at some point during the day on 948 Monday, uh, and on Tuesday because of what you found, specifically what 949 you said was - and don’t let me put words in your mouth but you kn- you 950 found out that his, um, wife was pregnant. 951 952 A: And I - yes. 953 954 Q: And you did not know that prior? 955 956 A: No. 957 958 Q: And you found that out via the newspaper articles and that caused you 959 concern. Um... 960 961 A: Well I just realized that he was lying to me and I was like, “Well if you can lie 962 to me about this what else are you lying to me about?” And it made me realize 963 that maybe his wife was in danger at that point and it was Day 2 too and she 964 still wasn’t home. 965 966 Q: What did that cause you to do with your phone though? 967 968 A: Oh, what, when I deleted those? I was just kind of grossed out by him to be 969 honest with you. I was just like, “I don’t know what’s going on right now but 970 you just lied to me and I don’t want to see this come over my phone 971 anymore.” So I removed it. 972 973 Q: So you re- just - you already said, but you removed text messages? 974 975 A: I deleted all of his stuff because he lied to me. I mean that’s what it was, it 976 was hur- it was the hurt that made me delete it. And then it was the lie that 977 made me start questioning everything else he had been telling me for the last 978 few days. 979 980 Q: And that’s when you decided to come forward? 981 982 A: Yes. 983 984 Q: Okay. So just for context... 985 986 A: Yes. 987 988 Q: ...when people delete stuff off phones usually we go hold on a second... 989 990 A: No, no, no, no, no it wasn’t malicious at all. 991 992 Q: And - and - and that’s why I want to (unintelligible)... 993 994 A: It wasn’t malicious at all. 995 996 Q: ...and no I’m not saying it was malicious. 997 998 A: He - he - he lied to me, it just hurt. Like I had never felt like he had ever lied 999 to me before and it was a big lie... 1000 1001 Q: Right. 1002 1003 A: ...I mean telling somebody that you’re in the midst of a divorce and then you 1004 have a wife that has a 15 week old baby on the way is a huge, huge thing and I 1005 was very taken back and I was just - it was hurt. And so at that point I just - I 1006 like deleted it. I had a - I had a few more quick things to say to him and then I 1007 just got rid of him. That’s literally what I did, I just cut him out of my life. It 1008 would have honestly been like a bad breakup kind of thing. Like if none of 1009 this other stuff would have happened that’s what it would have been, that 1010 would have been the end of it. 1011 1012 Q: The information was not destroyed because there was anything in there that 1013 would be, uh, harmful to you or potentially to Chris at this point, but harmful 1014 to you in particular, that’s not what you did? 1015 1016 A: No. No, no, no, no, no. 1017 1018 Q: You did it out of -- uh, excuse my language -- this guy’s an asshole so I’m 1019 gettin’ rid of him and I’m gettin’ this stuff off my phone. 1020 1021 A: That was like me kicking him out of my life. 1022 1023 Q: Okay. 1024 1025 A: And then - like I said and then realizing that he lied, that was when I was like 1026 okay maybe his family is in danger and they’re not coming back and they’re 1027 not staying with a friend. 1028 1029 A1: Yeah when’d I go over there? Tuesday morning? 1030 1031 A: Wednesday morning. 1032 1033 A1: Wednesday, yeah. 1034 1035 A: I called you Wednesday morning. 1036 1037 A1: That’s when we started discussing you guys need to get everything that - I 1038 just... 1039 1040 Q: You can understand the importance of... 1041 1042 A1: Oh no question. We were... 1043 1044 Q: Like I said, people lie, phone records don’t. Um, and they really help 1045 specifically, um, establish dates and times. 1046 1047 A: Mm-hm. 1048 1049 Q: I think we have a - have a very good grip on that in this case already but there 1050 may be a time when we go, “We need to know something else,” and then we 1051 would have it, we don’t want to lose it. And that’s - that’s really what it is for 1052 us is if we lose information that later on we go, “Man I wish we would’ve got 1053 that,” and we may never even use these. We may never even look at ‘em but if 1054 - if we have it now then we don’t worry about losing it. So I appreciate you 1055 being cooperative and giving it to us. 1056 1057 A: Yeah. 1058 1059 Q: So the first thing I wrote was text messages between Chris Watts and 1060 attachments. Okay so ‘cause we’re talking about the photographs 1061 unfortunately that caused you much disdain. And then I am gonna put, uh, 1062 phone log for calls between, uh, yourself and Chris Watts. Your phone 1063 number is, uh... 1064 1065 A: 720... 1066 1067 Q: ...720... 1068 1069 A: ...656-9605. 1070 1071 Q: And this right now is located at - we’re at the Thornton Police Department, 1072 it’s gonna be moved to my - so this is kind of - doesn’t make sense but we’re 1073 here, it’s gonna be moved to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. He’s 1074 gonna download it here but I’m gonna take it with me, just so you know, it’s 1075 not staying here. 1076 1077 A: Okay. 1078 1079 Q: They’re not gonna retain any of this, this comes with me. 1081 A: Okay. 1082 1083 Q: Okay. 1084 1085 A1: Is there anything else you want on there? I think that’s about... 1086 1087 A: That’s it. I mean I don’t have social media, I don’t really have anything else 1088 you guys can pull. 1089 1090 Q: Okay. 1091 1092 Q1: Is there anything else you know of that could help us with this that we - that is 1093 not on this sheet? 1094 1095 A: Uh, as far as like data? 1096 1097 Q1: That’s on your phone. 1098 1099 A: No. No I mean everything we did was like text and talk pretty much. I mean 1100 and like I said, any pictures that I had like even if you were to restore all my 1101 regular photos there’s so many pictures in there and you wouldn’t even know 1102 which ones were for him and which ones weren’t. But the one - any picture 1103 that I wanted to send to him I sent via text so if you guys go through the text 1104 in the attachments you will have - you will have everything that wasn’t said 1105 verbally and was done via text. But I think that’s it, like I don’t have - I don’t 1106 have anything else as far as like no Facebook, no Instagram, no - no Twitter, 1107 no LinkedIn, like none of it. So, um, there was never any of that kind of 1108 correspondence. So I think that should probably cover everything you guys 1109 will need. 1110 1111 Q: Is there any particular messages that I - would help me so I don’t have to look 1112 at - ‘cause whatever is on your phone I don’t know how long we’re gonna get 1113 back to but let’s say there - is there a particular date or time or message that 1114 stands out to you that would be relative to - specifically to the investigation 1115 into this case that might assist me in understanding why something like this 1116 could have occurred? 1117 1118 A: I’m still in shock that this whole thing happened, I... 1119 1120 Q: I can imagine. 1121 1122 A: ...I - like that’s why I gave him the benefit of the doubt for the first day ‘cause 1123 I was just like no way. Like I didn’t even think about that, I mean murder was 1124 not on the top of my mind when somebody doesn’t come home for an 1125 evening. Especially if they just like had some sort of like heated conversation, 1126 it’s like okay you guys are separating, you have a heated conversation, you 1127 leave for a night, like I didn’t even think this guy killed his wife. I mean that - 1128 that like - murder is not something on the top of my mind when I call one of 1129 my friends for three or four hours and she doesn’t answer the phone. Like that 1130 doesn’t even process to me as like a real thing that is a possibility at that point. 1131 And so that’s why I gave it a day and then the second day I was talkin’ to him 1132 he was just like a hot mess I could tell. And then with like the way he was 1133 talking to me and then that’s kind of when I cut him off and I stopped talking 1134 to him. And then... 1135 1136 Q: So remember what you just said and we’re gonna get to that ‘cause that’s 1137 probably a very important conversation. So but... 1138 1139 A: Yeah. So if you want to know days I would probably honestly just start at like 1140 Sunday and work your way forward. I mean all the rest of that stuff it’s just 1141 like the small talk of like hey this, this, this, you know. I mean... 1142 1143 Q: And your relationship building through the first weeks... 1144 1145 A: Yeah I mean like and if you go like maybe like a week further back like 1146 there’s times like I was trying to help him find an apartment like just for him, 1147 not for me, but for him and his kids, um, to get set up. And like there’s times 1148 where I’m like, “Well where’s your wife moving to? Like how close is she 1149 gonna be to you? You should be within like 30 minutes of your kids so they’re 1150 close. And you want to be close to their school and close to your gym. And 1151 like what’s your price range?” Like I was helping him get all of this stuff set 1152 up and it was like in a very decent manner and I don’t know if all of that is in 1153 text, some of it’s probably on the phone. Like at this point I’ve talked to him 1154 so much that I don’t even know which parts are like verbalized and which 1155 parts are texted at this point... 1156 1157 Q: Right. 1158 1159 A: ...but we can figure it out. 1160 1161 Q: Okay. The - you see what I wrote, uh, text messages between Chris Watts and 1162 attachments. Uh, and then the phone logs for calls between your phone 1163 number and Chris Watts. That’s - those are the two things that we’ll ask to be 1164 extracted from your phone. So if you’re okay with that, if you... 1165 1166 A: Why does that say, “As removed, cell phone data”? Isn’t that this? 1167 1168 Q: That is that and that’s what he’s gonna remove. 1169 1170 A: Oh. 1171 1172 Q: And then that officer is gonna fill that out. 1173 1174 A: Gotcha. What is the date? I don’t even know what day it is. 1175 1176 Q: Today is the 16th. 1177 1178 A: And you want to add anything to this? 1179 1180 Q: If you give - get your phone we’ll get him started. 1181 1182 A: Oh other than we - yeah we just - we wanted to give you everything but we 1183 also want to be protected in doing so, is more of the... 1184 1185 Q: Sure. 1186 1187 A: ...was more of the thing. It- it’s just... 1188 1189 Q: And when he’s done we’ll give you our copy of this. 1190 1191 Q1: Is there a password or anything like it - will it lock up after a period of time? 1192 1193 A: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. (Unintelligible). 1194 1195 Q1: That’s his notes. 1196 1197 A1: And... 1198 1199 Q1: Make sure there’s nothing written on the back. I’m just teasing. 1200 1201 A: There’s not. I checked before I ripped it off. Okay. 1202 1203 Q: Let’s go back to North Carolina. 1204 1205 A: Okay. 1206 1207 Q: He went to North Carolina and he was trying to rehab his marriage with his 1208 wife? 1209 1210 A: Uh, he said he was... 1211 1212 Q: Do you know her name at this point? 1213 1214 A: Yeah. 1216 Q: Okay. Are you okay saying her name? 1217 1218 A: It’s Shanann. 1219 1220 Q: All right. And do you know the children’s’ name? 1221 1222 A: Yes it’s Bella and Celeste, (CiCi). 1223 1224 Q: She went by - they called her (CiCi)? 1225 1226 A: Mm-hm. 1227 1228 Q: All right. So he went to - were they in North Carolina already? 1229 1230 A: They were already there. 1231 1232 Q1: If you want something. 1233 1234 A: I don’t know if my stomach will do that. Um, yeah they were already out 1235 there. He just flew out there to go meet up with... 1236 1237 Q: Do you know why they were there? 1238 1239 A: They’re - they’re all from there. 1240 1241 Q: Okay so they were - they’re from... 1242 1243 A: They were visiting her family for the most part until he got there. And then 1244 they still were mostly visiting her family. 1245 1246 Q: Okay. And do you know how long they had been there? 1247 1248 A: A while, like weeks. 1249 1250 Q: All right. And he flew out to join his family there? 1251 1252 A: Yep. 1253 1254 Q: Do you know specifically where you flew to? 1255 1256 A: What airport? 1257 1258 Q: No, no, no, what city. 1259 1260 A: No not off the top of my head.

TIMDAD16AUGROOM 676 Q: ...or the ones you’re gonna give us. Certainly. 677 678 A: I’ll give it to ‘em. If you want to go get him - I was... 679 680 Q: I want you to read this is what I want you to do before you decide that, okay? 681 Um... 682 683 A: So the second time I went to the house I’m not sure what day it was but it was 684 the weekend of the 14th. 685 686 Q: On - of August? 687 688 A: July. 689 690 Q: July. 691 692 A: I don’t know if it was the 14th or the 15th, um, one of those two days. But we 693 had went out and we stopped there just real quick on the way back. And we 694 were there not very long but that time I saw a picture of his wife and one of 695 his kids. And I remember thinkin’ to myself like wow she’s so beautiful, and I 696 like took a step back and I was just like this man has a gorgeous house, he has 697 beautiful babies, he has a beautiful wife, he has an awesome job, like why 698 would he want to leave this? And I remember talking to him about it and that 699 was the first time that I tried to actually say, “What do you think about not 700 separating from your li- wife? Like what if you really try to work on this?” 701 And he had expressed to me that, “We’ve tried to work on this and it’s not 702 working so that is why we’re separating.” And I spent some time like just, you 703 know, kind of - ‘cause it - it almost made me feel bad where I was like to the 704 point where I’m engaging in a relationship with a man who the way he 705 described it is in a contractual agreement but was not in like an emotional 706 relationship with somebody. Um, and for me the way I would have preferred 707 to do this is to avoid it ‘til that contractual agreement was also done and he 708 was done. And he could’ve approached me and said, “I’m - just had a divorce, 709 you know, maybe we could take this slow. What do you think?” But instead it 710 was, “Oh we’re separated and we’re working on a divorce,” and that is the 711 part that I feel bad about because I should’ve waited on that and I didn’t. And, 712 you know, I was just like well they’re already there so, you know, but then 713 being in that house I was just like, “Why? Fix this. Find a way to fix this, 714 make it work,” you know, and I would - I would - I was like trying to push 715 him to do it and he seemed pretty reluctant to do it, he didn’t want to. And, 716 um, I don’t know, we were still seeing each other fairly frequently but I kind 717 of like backed away so we weren’t hangin’ out quite as much and we were 718 still close but it was just like I really wanted him to try, like I wanted to know 719 that he tried and it didn’t work and then he moved on, not that, you know, 720 they both kind of tried and then he got himself into a situation with somebody 721 else. And I don’t know - I just thought he had a beautiful life goin’ on and he 722 could have made it work. That was the way I looked at it from the outside. 723 724 Q: So is this something you reflected on since this event or was this you... 725 726 A: No I was doing it then, like you can see it in my... 727 728 Q: You said this - this doesn’t look right, he’s kind of, um - I don’t want to be 729 responsible for breakin’ up a marriage, especially with two children, is that 730 kind of the gist I’m gettin’ here? 731 732 A: I didn’t think it didn’t look right, I mean I - I think he was legitimately 733 sleeping in the basement and I don’t - I didn’t think that these two were - I 734 mean I think it was like hey we’re both stuck in this house for now, we gotta 735 sell this, in the meantime you live here, I live here, we sleep in different 736 rooms, take care of the kids. That’s just like kind of... 737 738 Q: Okay. 739 740 A: ...how I took that. And, um, no I didn’t think it didn’t look right, I just thought 741 it just seemed like he had so much going on and it was just beautiful that it 742 was like, “Why don’t you just try this out, you know, and see if you can fix 743 it.” And he’d always be like, “Well what about us? What about us?” I’m like, 744 “Don’t worry about us. Like that is more important. Like try to see if you can 745 like salvage whatever it is that you have going on with your wife,” and - and, 746 you know, he - I always got the impression that he was a great father to his 747 kids, like always. And so, you know, and I was like, “And be the dad that you 748 want to be,” I was like, “And see if you can make it work.” And he just - like 749 we kind of talked about it off and on for like a few weeks and I was just kind 750 of like I don’t know, like I think I was kind of like cold feetin’ about it when I 751 went - after I went over to his house. And so this was like pretty early on. And 752 then, um, he told me that, uh, oh he went to, um - he went to North Carolina 753 and he was like, “I’m gonna talk to her when I’m in North Carolina and see if 754 I can get her to do this, to like try to like rekindle the flame.” 755 756 Q: Okay so try to, uh, salvage his relationship as you’ve been asking him to do? 757 758 A: Yes. And - and then if he decided... 759 760 Q: When did he go to North Carolina? 761 762 A: Um, I think it was like the last week of July, somewhere around there. 763 764 Q: Okay. 766 A: So I mean this was like a couple weeks that I was just kind of like trying to 767 push him to do that. 768 769 Q: So let’s - let’s pause that North Carolina and we’ll come... 770 771 A: Okay. 772 773 Q: ...back to that real quick. I want you to read this. If you don’t understand what 774 it means than ask me the question. But basically what it says is you have the 775 right not to let me look at your phone. I am asking to look at your phone for 776 the purposes we previously discussed for the text messages and your phone 777 log and unfortunately the photos that are attached therein too. Um, that 778 information is only rel- relative to this investigation, I’m not lookin’ at 779 anything else except for the conversations between you and Chris Watts, and 780 the phone, um, data between you and Chris Watts for phone calls for times 781 and dates for those phone calls. Um, and then the content of the text messages 782 that - that are there. And we can - we’ll write that specifically down here, 783 understand that if... 784 785 A: I just don’t want anybody to get some of those texts, like they have nothing to 786 do with this case and they are just like... 787 788 Q: Between you and Chris? 789 790 A: Yes they’re just - they’re just... 791 792 Q: So just tell me what you’re... 793 794 A: They’re just kind of raunchy. 795 796 Q: Okay well... 797 798 A: Like I don’t need anybody - I don’t need that... 799 800 Q: Everybody’s an adult... 801 802 A: ...posted like... 803 804 Q: We’re not gonna post it. 805 806 A: ...somewhere. 807 808 Q: Um, it - the... 809 810 A: I don’t need... 811 812 Q: ...the only ones that... 813 814 A: ...I don’t want the newspapers to get that, that’s all I want. 815 816 Q: The only ones that... 817 818 A: I just need them to not get that. 819 820 Q: ...we would be looking for, again, is the same kind of questions we’re getting 821 to here is things about his children, things about his wife... 822 823 A: Understood. Understood. 824 825 Q: ...that the questioning of did he ever, you know, has he ever said something to 826 you that might indicate maybe not then but now that there was something like 827 this in his mind. Or you - you know what we’re lookin’ for, I don’t need to 828 come out and tell you that. I understand the embarrassment of particular 829 photos or potential, um, sexual types of conversations you may have had with 830 Chris, uh, it’s - it’s not relative to - to the investigation we don’t care, okay? 831 You’re an adult, I’m an adult, everybody in this room’s a- even your dad and I 832 give it to you for saying that stuff in front of your dad ‘cause I’m not sure 833 many women could do that. Um, so that’s not what we’re - we’re after. We’re 834 after the - the information that corroborates things that you’ve told us and also 835 that corroborates or, um, may tend to prove that things that Chris told us were 836 a lie. You understand that? 837 838 A: Mm-hm. 839 840 Q: Um, and that’s maybe going a little bit far, I usually won’t tell people that but 841 because of your reservations that’s what I’m lookin’ for. If I can disprove 842 something he’s told me by a phone record, phone records don’t lie, people do. 843 Okay? So if I can disprove something that may be important that’s what I 844 need it for. I’m not saying I can, has it happened before? Absolutely. Is it 845 critical in cases that I’ve worked in the past? Yes. So that’s why I want it. 846 Okay? Um, again, you don’t have to give it to me, you can tell me, “I don’t 847 want you to have it, go get a warrant,” um, I’m not even gonna tell you if I go 848 get a war- try to get a warrant right now. I’m just asking for you to consent 849 and - and again we can write right here what you’re willing to give me which 850 is the text messages and the phone log and unfortunately again the - the 851 attachments on some of those text messages. And I’ll write it on there and 852 then you’ll just sign it, okay? Do you under- do you understand the questions 853 there? Do you have questions about any of the things that it says? You 854 understand you don’t have to do this... 856 A: Mm-hm. 857 858 Q: ...you’re doing it of your own free will? And I know you’re tired so if you 859 want to let your dad read it too, um... 860 861 A: He will, thank you. 862 863 Q: ...that’s - that’s a good idea. 864 865 A: Can you fill it out before I sign it? 866 867 Q: Yep. And just you read it and if you have any questions then we’ll - we’ll put 868 on there what we’re after. 869 870 A: I’m so hungry. 871 872 Q: You should’ve told me, I would have got you some food. I got food in my car. 873 874 A: It’s not staying down, it’s coming up... 875 876 A1: She hadn’t been feelin’ good. Not ‘cause of any - just... 877 878 A: Like I got sick prior to this... 879 880 A1: The gym. 881 882 A: ...whole - whole thing happening, and then I think ev- all of this compounding 883 with the fact... 884 885 Q: Stress. 886 887 A: ...that I’m sick it’s just not good. I have not really been eating or sleeping 888 much at all. 889 890 A1: Yeah I - I am with you, we - we definitely need to accelerate the case because 891 the more lo- the more it takes the less sure that they are of situations. But on 892 the other end I think if we - if you do just that only... 893 894 Q: You tell me what you’re willing to provide to me and we’ll write it on... 895 896 A1: I- is that good enough? 897 898 A: Mm-hm. I just want like our text conversation and then our phone call 899 records.

Code - TIMDAD16AUGROOM 451 452 A: Not at all. 453 454 Q: ...wasn’t - was aggressive or he never lost his mind and yelled and said crazy 455 stuff or anything like that? 456 457 A: No. 458 459 Q: Okay. 460 461 A: No. 462 463 Q: So can we just kind of go back to your relationship, you say you guys had a 464 lot in common. What - what was that? 465 466 A: Well I mean like were both really into fitness, I think that’s important, it’s a 467 lifestyle. Um, both of us ate pretty healthy so I think that was important as 468 well. Um, he is like a total gearhead, he likes cars a lot and I don’t know 469 nearly as much about them but it’s always been something that I’ve been 470 pretty interested in so we’d definitely talk about stuff like that. Um, and I - I 471 guess he was always willing to like learn new stuff, and vice versa. Like I like 472 to travel a lot, it’s not something that he’s done a lot but he seemed like really 473 interested in what I had to share with him and vice versa. So even if it wasn’t 474 something that we originally had in common together it was just like hey I 475 respect what you have to say, and vice versa. 476 477 Q: So you guys just yin and yang, you got along pretty well? 478 479 A: Very well. 480 481 Q: And no time he never gave you any indication that... 482 483 A: None. 484 485 Q: ...that he was having issues, um, so you - when - during your guys’ dating 486 time did you guys spend most of the time at your place? 487 488 A: Always. 489 490 Q Okay. Always at your place. 491 492 A: I told - well or we’d go out but, um, I told (Mark) yesterday, he asked me if I 493 went over there and I told him about one time that I went over to that house. 494 I’ve been to that house twice but it was very, very brief and it was not like an 495 extended stay. I did not feel comfortable there or like I just didn’t want to be 496 there, it’s not my life, like that is somebody else’s life and somebody else’s 497 existence and I respect that, that’s their space. So I used to tell him, “Well 498 come to my house because this is - like this is our space, this is my space.” 499 And so for me out of respect just for like whatever situation he had going on 500 and the fact that it’s not my home, um, I felt that it was better to - to be in my 501 place. And I - I live alone, I don’t have any roommates or anything so it’s 502 pretty easy to do that. 503 504 Q: So during June and July did you - were you aware that he, uh - his family was 505 not - his - did you meet his children... 506 507 A: No... 508 509 Q: ...during June and July? 510 511 A: ...I didn’t want to. And he didn’t ask me to. 512 513 Q: Okay. 514 515 A: I mean not that I didn’t want to ever, it was just not now, it’s like you’re not 516 finalized with your separation and not only that, we’ve barely been dating, 517 like you can’t introduce kids to somebody new in a situation like that, that’s 518 something that takes time. I mean would I have liked to have met them, of 519 course. They, you know, I mean that would’ve been a - a great honor for me 520 to have somebody introduce their children into my life, you know, and - and - 521 but not then. It was something that it was like okay well let’s see where we’re 522 at in six months, let’s see where we’re at in a year and if we’re still doing this 523 and you and me are still, you know, happy with where we’re at and you think 524 that this is something that is gonna be long term and is worth bringing your 525 children into the picture then yes I would love to meet them. But it’s like not 526 right now. You are still in this situation when you’re not even completely out 527 of it and I’m getting in it and that’s not fair for them. And that was kind of the 528 policy that I had with him was it was just like yes but not yet. 529 530 Q: So did he ask to introduce you to his children? 531 532 A: Not at that time. 533 534 Q: Okay. 535 536 A: I think both him and I were on the same page of eventually if things went as 537 they should in a relationship... 538 539 Q: I understand you guys’ relationship is very new and young and, um... 541 A: Yeah. 542 543 Q: ...so although it was short I - just laying everything out helps us understand 544 what actually was going on with him and.. 545 546 A: Yeah. 547 548 Q: ...some - we may - I might as her a question and you’re going why the heck 549 would he ask her that, probably because I have information that I’m not 550 willing to share with you and I’ll tell you that right now. I’m not gonna tell 551 you - some questions I’m gonna ask you and you’ll go, “What the heck?” I 552 won’t - I won’t share some information with you, just it protects you and it 553 protects our investigation so if it seems weird there’s a reason I’m asking it 554 and... 555 556 A: That’s fine. 557 558 Q: ...it’s usually relative to what I know. Um, so don’t - don’t take offense to it, 559 again it’s just part of what we need to know. Um... 560 561 A: Understood. 562 563 Q: So just - you went to his house on two occasions... 564 565 A: Yes. 566 567 Q: ...were - was that recent? 568 569 A: No that was like pretty early into it and I did not like it and did not want to go 570 back. 571 572 Q: Do you recall where the house was? 573 574 A: Yeah it’s like right off the highway in Frederick. 575 576 Q: Okay. And you know the streets? 577 578 A: I mean I’m sure I could figure it out again if I like really had to, like off the 579 top of my head no. 580 581 Q: Do you know the street name? 582 583 A: No. 584 585 Q: Okay. 586 587 A: I would have to like drive around in there to get there. 588 589 Q: Okay. Um, did it look like anybody else lived at that house at that time? 590 591 A: Oh definitely. 592 593 Q: Okay. 594 595 A: I mean the whole thing... 596 597 Q: So is that what freaked you out? 598 599 A: I mean he told me that he was living in the basement, um, and said, “We’re 600 separated but we’re not divorced and we’re gonna get ready to sell the house.” 601 And that was the impression that I was under. And I was under the impression 602 that they were taking everything pretty slow with this with like getting ready 603 to sell the house, I mean those are big things. So that’s what I was informed 604 and I mean if you think about it this whole thing happened in a six week 605 stretch, like that’s really that much of a timeframe. So in that sense like its 606 believable to me. Um, yes I went - I went to the house and, um, the first time I 607 was there, um, I hung out in their like front living room, I just sat on the floor 608 and it was on the 4th of July, it was the morning of the 4th and I was helping 609 him, uh, to set up My Fitness Pal app and like track his food and his calories 610 and stuff ‘cause he does pretty good with the working out and stuff and he 611 asked me, he’s like, “Can you help me just like get this dialed in?” I was like, 612 “Yeah I can do that.” So that - he invited me up to the house and I was already 613 kind of hesitant to do it ‘cause I was like there are other people that live here I 614 just felt like it was an invasion of space. And so I went up there and we just 615 stayed in that front room and I helped him out with that, um, and got him all 616 set up with that. And then, uh, oh he asked me if I wanted lunch and he grilled 617 chicken and carrots. Chicken and carrots. And then, uh, that’s all he had and I 618 was like okay. So we, uh, so we ate and then I left. And then there was 619 another day about - I can give you the date ish, let me look at a calendar. I 620 think it was the weekend after my birthday. 621 622 A1: Um, just a thing on the courtesy for the phone for - what was that guy’s name, 623 (Don)? 624 625 Q: This gentleman... 626 627 A: Oh. 628 629 Q: ...(unintelligible). I just met him today. 631 A: Um... 632 633 Q: Do you want to do the phone... 634 635 A: ...I forgot about that. 636 637 A1: For TPD? 638 639 Q: It’s not for them, they’re doing it for us. 640 641 A1: Yes. 642 643 Q: We just didn’t - we don’t have the equipment with us to do it and I asked them 644 to do it for us. They’re not involved in this investigation. He would just be a, 645 uh, computer person. He would not be looking at any of this stuff. That, uh, 646 would fall to myself. So keep that in mind, he’s not involved in this 647 investigation. Thornton PD has nothing to do with this other than lettin’ us use 648 their facility and, um, helping us with some electronic download. He’s not 649 gonna look at your phone right now. He’s gonna put it on a disk and they’re 650 gonna give it to me. 651 652 A: Gotcha. I don’t know, what do you think? I really want to help you guys, I do. 653 654 A1: It’s up to you. 655 656 A: I feel like I’m - I’m - this whole thing is just gonna be crazy regardless of 657 whether I give you my phone or not. I mean that’s kind of how I look at it, 658 like it’s happening, it’s gonna happen. 659 660 A1: Well the texts reiterate what you’ve been... 661 662 A: The media is just gonna... 663 664 A1: ...saying all along so it’s not like... 665 666 A: Well they do, that’s the only thing too. I mean that’s kind of a good backup. 667 Yeah I’ll give it to ‘em. 668 669 Q: I think you hit the nail right on the head. There is reasons why we want 670 everything. Um, it validates things that we know. I’m not gonna come out and 671 tell you that I - if you tell me something today we’ll validate it with your text 672 messages. Whether it’s the ones we have now... 673 674 A: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I will...

Code - TIMDAD16AUGROOM 406 Q: ...so pretty even keel? 407 408 A: Yes like really relaxed like all the time, he was never really like worked up 409 about anything. Just... 410 411 Q: Mellow... 412 413 A: ...chilled. 414 415 Q: ...easy-going guy. 416 417 A: Very much. 418 419 Q: Okay. And he was that way with you - did you ever - did he ever have any 420 kind of, uh - did you guys ever have arguments? I mean... 421 422 A: No. 423 424 Q: ...pretty short relationship, no arguments during that time? 425 426 A: No. 427 428 Q: Did he ever lose his temper at any time? 429 430 A: Never. 431 432 Q: You guys never had a yelling match? 433 434 A: No. 435 436 Q: So you never saw him upset or mad? 437 438 A: No. And there was a couple times that we had some disagreements on some 439 things that as we like further progressed into this story, you know, but it was 440 never - like I am very calm when I talk to people, it’s like extremely rational 441 when I handle situations that there’s a disagreement in and he always was the 442 exact same way, like always. Like I never stress anything. I think one thing 443 that actually kind of drew me to him was the fact that he was like very open 444 with communicating with me if there were any like differences on how we 445 saw things or - or just like open-minded about things. It was - it was - actually 446 I - I personally thought it was kind of unique because usually most of the men 447 that I’ve ever met are typically very closed off and I didn’t get that from him 448 at all. But it was always like kind. Very kind. 449 450 Q: So no sense that this guy had a temper or...

Code - TIMDAD16AUGROOM 226 Q: Okay. 227 228 A: It would’ve been before Father’s Day. 229 230 Q: So had you guys ever gone out on any kind of, um... 231 232 A: No. 233 234 Q: ...date at that time? You just were... 235 236 A: No, no, no, no. 237 238 Q: ...conversing at work? 239 240 A: Yeah that’s all it was. And then, um, I don’t know, we started hanging out. 241 We hung out, we went to - we went to a park, hung out at a park. 242 243 Q: Let’s go back real quick, so he took - why did he tell you that he was getting a 244 divorce? Did he ask you out at that time? 245 246 A: No he didn’t. I think he was probably interested in me and so, um, he talked to 247 me a couple times, uh, via his work phone and I was like, uh, no. Like it was 248 still very like friendly conversation. But then when I realized like this man is 249 interested in me, I’m interested in him, this is personal, so we got away from 250 the Anadarko thing ‘cause I really don’t want those guys affiliated with any of 251 this. And... 252 253 Q: So you have a work phone that’s specifically... 254 255 A: No. I have one phone that I do both on. He has two phones. 256 257 Q: Okay. So he had your phone, the 720-656... 258 259 A: That’s the only number that I wrote with all the time. 260 261 Q: Okay. 262 263 A: So he has two phones. 264 265 Q: All right. And one of those owned by Anadarko and... 266 267 A: Yes, sir. 268 269 Q: ...one personal. 271 A: Yes, sir. 272 273 Q: Do you know what his Anadarko phone number was? 274 275 A: Nope. 276 277 Q: Okay. 278 279 A: It’s been so long and I mean I’m sure I could like look it up but I tried to look 280 it up for those guys yesterday and I couldn’t find it. 281 282 Q: Okay. 283 284 A: Um... 285 286 Q: We can find it, that’s okay. I just wondered if you knew it. 287 288 A: Um, but at that point we just like took it to his phone ‘cause I just felt it was 289 like better that way. Um, and we just continued to talk and then, um... 290 291 Q: Let me go back to the park, where was the park? 292 293 A: It’s like down the street from my house, it’s called East Lake #3. 294 295 Q: Your - your house... 296 297 A: Yes. 298 299 Q: ...in Northglenn? 300 301 A: Yes. 302 303 Q: And that was in the June timeframe? 304 305 A: I - yeah. Well like the beginning of July, it was like right around my birthday 306 like so sometime in the very end of June, beginning of July. 307 308 Q: Okay. And that’s the first meeting you had outside of work? 309 310 A: Yeah. 311 312 Q: Um, basic conversation for a first date? 313 314 A: I mean we kept it pretty simple I guess, you know, um, I don’t even remember 315 everything we talked about... 316 317 Q: Sure. 318 319 A: ...we were there for a few hours, um, but... 320 321 Q: Understand my - so if - if I ask about conversation what I’m looking for was 322 he talking about his family during any of these meetings? Those are the kind 323 of - I understand, uh, there- you know, whatever you guys were talking about 324 relationship, your life, your interest, those things, I - we don’t need to know 325 that. What I’m interested in is knowing is when he brings up his children, 326 when he brings up his wife, when he brings up financial information, when he 327 brings up his home, when he brings up anything that may have been - and - 328 and it’s been a few days so you’ve had a chance to reflect on, um, some 329 articles that you may have read and you know unfortunately that you’re in a 330 situation where somebody has been murdered. And that information when you 331 look backwards, um, in your memory what the conversations with Chris 332 anything that he might’ve said that would be relative to that - and I’m not just, 333 you know, and even if one day he was mad and he said I want to do this or do 334 that, um, you know, anything like that, if he ever made any kind of statements 335 that you were like whoa that was weird, um, or why would he say that or why 336 did he mention that. Do you understand what I’m - I’m looking for? 337 338 A: No I completely understand, I just feel like some of this happened so long ago 339 that I can’t tell you like the exact words of the exact conversation at the exact 340 time and place... 341 342 Q Sure. 343 344 A: ...because it’s like we had a lot of conversations. I mean we talked every 345 single day so it’s like... 346 347 Q: So if there’s a... 348 349 A: ...I’m trying to help you guys with the stuff like the stuff that’s more current I 350 can give you guys a lot more like detail and exact times but when you’re 351 asking me about something that happened six weeks ago and exactly what was 352 said it’s like - I mean I’m sure I can give you a general idea but to be honest 353 with you like to pinpoint exact words it’s not gonna happen. 354 355 Q: I’m not lookin’ for exact words, um, just more - let’s say six weeks ago he 356 said something that triggered with you last night, um, that’s what I’d be 357 looking for. Or something four weeks ago. And if you don’t remember where 358 it was or the specific words that doesn’t matter, just he said something that 359 was off the wall or he said this or he said that, that has caused you a moment 360 to pause and you go wow I wonder why he said that, now knowing what you 361 know today. Do you understand where - where I’m goin’ with that. 362 363 A: I completely understand and to be honest with you I mean there were several 364 discussions that we had about his current relationship and where it had gone 365 and what it had caused, um, and he talked about his kids from time to time. Bu 366 the thing was is was never hostile, it was never anything aggressive. Like even 367 when he spoke of his wife and the fact that they were separating it was never 368 like ill, it was - it was very - it was still very kind, it was just like, “This is not 369 working,” you know, and would explain why but it wasn’t anything out of the 370 ordinary or anything that I think would scare me. And to this day eve after 371 everything that I found out I still look back at that and I don’t see any red 372 lights with the way that he spoke of his family. 373 374 Q: Okay. 375 376 A: At all. 377 378 Q: Can you just describe his de- overall demeanor over the 8, 10, 12 weeks that 379 you guys knew each other? 380 381 A: It wasn’t that long, it was like six weeks that we were hangin’ out. Well I 382 guess we knew each other longer but... 383 384 Q: Okay but you met him in the office and just his overall persona of who was - 385 was he aggressive, was he mellow, was he calm, was he outspoken? Well who 386 was Chris? 387 388 A: He - I, you know, I think he’s an introvert, I would consider him to be like a 389 pretty - I don’t want to say he’s a very reserved individual, I think he’s 390 probably more reserved around other people. I think he emphasized to me that 391 one of the reasons that he really enjoyed talking to me is because if - he felt 392 like he could get out of his shell. He said around most people he just like 393 didn’t really feel the - the need to - to like talk and converse. And it wasn’t 394 just in his home life, just in general it wasn’t something where he - he’s an 395 introvert. And he said with him - with me it made him feel like he could really 396 just start talking about things that excited him and I think a lot of that had to 397 do with the fact that we had things in common. Um, so with me I think he was 398 a little bit more outgoing but even then I would still consider him to be an 399 introvert. I mean not... 400 401 Q: So... 402 403 A: ...on the extreme end. If an introvert went to like 1 to 10 I’d put him at like a 4 404 or a 5, so on the lighter side of introversion.

Code - TIMDAD16AUGROOM Audio, um, we introduced ourselves in the lobby and - earlier so we’re just 15 gonna do that again real quick. My name’s Kevin Koback, I’m with the 16 Colorado Bureau of Investigation and, uh, we’re assisting the Frederick Police 17 Department with this case involving, uh, Chris Watts. And this is Tim 18 Martinez... 19 20 Q1: Also an agent for CBI. 21 22 Q: Sir, if you’d just introduce yourself? 23 24 A1: Uh, Duane Kessinger. I’m Ni- Nichol’s father. 25 26 Q: Duane what’s your birthday? 27 28 A1: November 3, 1958. 29 30 Q: And home address for you, sir? 31 32 A1: 8801 West 65th Avenue. 33 34 Q: What city? 35 36 A1: And that’s, uh, Arvada, 80004. 37 38 Q: And a cell phone or, uh, home phone or where - on we can reach you? 39 40 A1: Um, it’s -2-4547. 41 42 Q: Thank you. And Nichol can you just introduce yourself for the recording? 43 44 A: Nichol Kessinger. Do you need all the other stuff too? 46 Q: Yes, please. 47 48 A: I live at, um, 12255 Claude Court, Unit #612. Phone number is-05. 49 50 Q: Claude Court, is that - I think we determined it was Northglenn, right? 51 52 A: Yes. 53 54 Q: Do you know your zip code? 55 56 A: 80241. 57 58 Q: Okay. Can you speak up just a little bit so the recorder... 59 60 A: Yeah. 61 62 Q: I know you’re tired and you’re stressed, um, and we won’t be here any longer 63 than we have to be. Uh, you’ve already had a conversation with people before. 64 You came here on your own free will to talk to us, we picked you up at - at 65 your request and brought you here. Um, you can get up and leave at any time. 66 You don’t have to talk to us. If there’s a question you don’t want to answer 67 don’t answer it. If you don’t want to talk anymore just tell me I want to - I - 68 tell me, “I want to leave,” and I’m kind of in the way of the door but you’re 69 not being - uh, you’re - you’re not being, uh, interrogated as a criminal 70 suspect, we’re here to understand, uh, your relationship with Chris and what 71 you know about Chris and his family and, uh, events relating to Chris Watts. 72 Um, and do you know him as Chris or Christopher? 73 74 A: Either one. 75 76 Q: Okay. Um, so the phone number that you reached him on, can you tell me 77 what that number was? 78 79 A: I think I deleted that out of my phone too. I just like cut him out of my life. 80 It’s a 910 number, you guys have it. 81 82 A1: Well we gave it to (Mark) yesterday. 83 84 A: Yeah. So... 85 86 Q: I - I probably have it but just in case... 87 88 A: ...he’ll have it. I don’t have it anymore. 89 90 Q: If I recited it to you would you know it? 91 92 A: Just the first three numbers. 93 94 Q: Okay. But you... 95 96 A: 91... 97 98 Q: ...know it as a 910 number? 99 100 A: Yes that’s what I do know. I - I mean that’s... 101 102 Q: Okay. 103 104 A: ...what I’ve got. 105 106 A1: North Carolina or something. 107 108 Q: Yeah North Carolina. 109 110 A: That’s what it is. 111 112 Q: Okay. So let’s just start, uh, with like a timeline of your, um, getting to know 113 Chris, how you guys met, where you met, all those things. Let’s just run - and 114 I- I’m not gonna ask you specific questions unless I think it’s necessary, I’ll 115 let you just tell me your story. I think it’s a little bit easier that way. So I just 116 want to know how you met him, where you met him, how long you guys were 117 dating, uh, and those kind of things initially. 118 119 A: Okay. Um, I think I met him some time in June, probably early June it 120 might’ve been May, it was just talking at work, it was pretty casual. Um, and, 121 uh, he didn’t have a wedding ring on his finger and every time I talked to him 122 he didn’t tell me that he was in a relationship, he didn’t even mention his kids 123 right away either. Um, and then one day he told me that he had two kids, I was 124 like that’s pretty cool. And, uh, so he was telling me about his kids... 125 126 Q: That sounded like a sarcastic comment. 127 128 A: No I thought it was kind of cute, I was like oh he’s a dad. It was like right 129 around Father’s Day too so whenever that is, is that in June? Yeah. 130 131 Q: Okay. I’m not good with holidays. 132 133 A: So that’s - he told me he had kids and then it was Father’s Day shortly after 134 that so... Okay. 137 138 A: ...that’s what I do know. And I was like - no I thought it was cute. And then, 139 um, he was telling me about ‘em, he was pretty excited about ‘em. And then, 140 um, he mentioned that he did have a significant other and then he told me that 141 those two were in the process of a separation. 142 143 Q: Did he mention the children’s name or his significant other’s name? 144 145 A: Um, I didn’t know his significant other’s name for a while. And then I think 146 he told me his kids’ names pretty quick but to be honest with you on an exact 147 date of when that happened I don’t know. 148 149 Q: So in May and June - first of all, where do you work? 150 151 A: I work at Anadarko Petroleum Corporation. I’m contracted to Anadarko 152 Petroleum Corporation. 153 154 Q: Okay and you work out of an office setting where? 155 156 A: In Platteville, Colorado. 157 158 Q: Okay. And Chris also works out of that location per se? 159 160 A: Yes. Yes. He’s in the field but he comes into the office with his team. 161 162 Q: So you work - uh, what is your job responsibility. 163 164 A: I do healthy- health, safety and environment. 165 166 Q: Okay. So you work in the office and you take care of health safety for - 167 Anadarko is a oil and gas company, right? 168 169 A: Yes. 170 171 Q: So you’re doing health safety in the office and Chris works in the field... 172 173 A: Yes. 174 175 Q: ...as a - what - what kind of job does he do? 176 177 A: He’s an operator so I don’t know like all of his daily duties but he’s a field 178 operator so he works with like the oil wells. 179 180 Q: So he goes out and does work on those whatever... 181 182 A: Yes. 183 184 Q: ...uh, that work might be. But he comes into the office frequent for... 185 186 A: In the mornings. His team meets in the mornings, they don’t - they’re not all 187 in there every day. Some days some of ‘em are in there, some days other one 188 are in there but in the mornings typically from like 6:15 to probably 7:00, 189 somewhere around there. 190 191 Q: And is that where you met Chris? 192 193 A: Yes. 194 195 Q: Okay. So can you just take us through kind of a little bit of, uh, the early part 196 of how you guys - how he courted you or you courted him, I don’t know 197 which one happened, um, how you guys got to know each other? 198 199 A: Um, I guess we just started talking, he actually - um, so part of my job is to 200 manage the gas monitors that we have so Anadarko requires all of their field 201 personnel to carry like, uh, gas monitor sensors for toxic gases and it’s my job 202 to control all the inventory, any issues, anything like that. Um, and we were 203 havin’ some pretty serious like equipment issues and we had, uh, numerous 204 amounts of people coming in my office one day and he happened to be one of 205 them. Um, and I had seen him before, like they meet in the - in the lunchroom 206 and that’s where I go put my lunch in the fridge so I had seen him but I didn’t 207 never like talk to him. Um, so that day we just started talking and then every 208 time I saw him in the hallway after that and it was always hit or miss, like it 209 wasn’t an everyday thing, it was just when I saw him we just started talking 210 and we just kind of had a lot in common and just hit it off so we’d always 211 have, you know, pretty good conversations. And then I don’t know, one day 212 he just - he - he told me that he had kids and started talking about his kids and 213 then mentioned, “Yes that I have a wife but we’re getting separated.” I said, 214 “Okay,” and then... 215 216 Q: When do you think that was? 217 218 A: When he said all that? 219 220 Q: So specifically when he told you he was getting separated from his wife, was 221 that within the first couple weeks that you knew him or was that later on? You 222 said you met him around May or June... 223 224 A: Yeah it was still in June.

Code - 2NDPH21AUG645PM

675 676 A: ...I want to reach out to them today and... 677 678 Q: Okay. I’ll... 679 680 A: ...get that (unintelligible)... 681 682 Q: ...I - as soon as we’re done here I’ll - I’ll make that my next priority. 683 684 A: Thank you. 685 686 Q: What - what other things is there that, um, you thought of last night? 687 688 A: Oh, um, so I don’t know when this phone call conversation happened, I think 689 that this was Monday at some point as well, I think it might have even been 690 the same phone conversation as him washing the sheets and everything. Um, 691 he - I think it might have been the same conversation. Um, he informed that 692 her friend (Nicky)’s son, uh, was at the house when the cops came and that he 693 was runnin’ all over the house and up and down in all the rooms. And at this 694 point I was like, “Well is anything missing,” because I was thinking on 695 Monday that this girl had just left for the night so I was like, “Well maybe if 696 she’s staying with (Nicky) or somebody maybe she forgot some stuff so 697 maybe their son, you know, they’re like sending him in like hey go get a 698 toothbrush or go get this or go get that,” like I didn’t - I didn’t know. And so 699 he’s like, “Yeah this little kid was like runnin’ all over my house and in all the 700 different rooms in my house.” And I was like, “Well is anything missing?” 701 And he was like - he was like, “Well there - I think there’s some blankets 702 missing from my kids’ rooms but I don’t think he took ‘em, I think she did.” 703 704 Q: Okay. So he said little kid, do you know how old this man was or boy was? 705 706 A: Oh (Nicky)’s son? I don’t know. 707 708 Q: Okay. 709 710 A: I think he’s like 10 or 12, like I think he’s like a - like a - yeah I don’t know, I 711 think he’s like 10 or 12. Like old enough to like process information and run 712 around his house. 713 714 Q: So he said he thought that the kid didn’t take ‘em but that maybe, um, 715 Shanann had taken them? 716 717 A: Yes. 718 719 Q: That’s, uh, weird. Okay. So (Nicky)’s son, he’s like 10 to 12. And, umm 720 just making some notes, just a sec. 721 722 A: Take your time. 723 724 Q: Okay. What else? 725 726 A: Um, let me see, let me see, let me see. Um, I don’t know, I feel like I have a 727 list in my head and I almost wrote it down but I didn’t want to put it on paper. 728 729 Q: So how about this and I was gonna mention this last night but I think both of 730 us were pretty tired, um, and we were - we were there for a long time 731 yesterday. So if you have a thought, keep a notepad and a pad and paper with 732 you and write it down. And then that way you don’t lose it. That - that way 733 you - and then you can just call me and we can discuss it and - and we’re 734 done, um, and then move on, then you don’t have to think about anymore. 735 Does that sound like a decent idea? 736 737 A: It does. 738 739 Q: Okay. 740 741 A: I don’t know what else I was gonna tell you. Oh, well - oh when we 742 FaceTimed too, so let me go back to that too. So I think all of this was on 743 Monday. So I think that both the comments about the blankets and sheets were 744 on that first phone call on Monday. And then directly after that phone call 745 there was like a brief FaceTime. And when I FaceTimed him he was like - he 746 was laying on a bed that didn’t have any sheets on it. 747 748 Q: Okay. 749 750 A: And I remember - and he was like in, um, just like - like a little - like little 751 wife-beater top and he didn’t really say much. It was like he wanted me to talk 752 to him, he’s like, “I just wanted to see your face.” And he like wanted me to 753 talk to him but he was like kind of quiet and actually that was why I got off 754 the phone with him and then did laundry and then I would call him back on 755 the phone. Because when we were FaceTiming it was like kind of weird, I was 756 like, uh, I don’t really know where this is going, like you’re not really having 757 a conversation with me, like he... 758 759 Q: So he was just removed, he - he wasn’t very engaged in the conversation? 760 761 A: He was just like really fixated on like me, like I bet you if I wouldn’t have 762 talked he would’ve been okay with it. 763 764 Q: Just staring at you? 765 766 A: Yeah. I mean it was just like it was really brief too, like it was sh- super short 767 and I was just like this is not going anywhere. And I remember telling him 768 like, “I will call you back, let me go do some laundry.” So I like got out of bed 769 and went and threw some clothes in the dryer that I had forgot to put in the 770 dryer prior to laying down. And then, um, I don’t know, I think I might’ve did 771 like one or two other little quick things and then I got back in bed and I called 772 him back on the phone and that’s when that second long phone call starts. 773 774 Q: Okay. All right, great. Anything else? 775 776 A: Um, off the top of my head, I don’t - I don’t really think so. I mean I did want 777 to make a comment to you though like, um, the other gentleman that was in 778 the room last night, I do not remember his name... 779 780 Q: His name was Tim. 781 782 A: Uh, Tim, that’s right. I knew it started with a T and I couldn’t remember it. 783 Um, he was askin’ me like, “Oh did you guys ever talk about (unintelligible), 784 stuff like that?” And here’s the deal, like when it comes to Chris or any other 785 man that I’ve ever had in my life like I always discuss important things like - 786 like where do you want to be in five years like, you know, ge- are these the - 787 is this the type of man that wants to have kids and in his case, more kids, like 788 are you - like what type of house do you want to live in, like where are you at 789 financially, like we started going over this last night and - and, you know, one 790 thing that I want to express is when I had these conversations with him it was 791 not me saying I need a house and I want to get married now and I want to 792 have babies now, it was never like let’s just leave your old life behind and 793 start any of this. It was literally just like inquisitions of where do you see 794 yourself, like if you and me ended up in like a long term relationship like what 795 are you looking for. And for me it’s not because I’m trying to rush into a 796 relationship, it’s because I want to know what I’m getting into. I’ve seen 797 people that are together for three or four years and never have the 798 conversation of whether or not they want to have kids... 799 800 Q: Okay. 801 802 A: ...or things like that. Do you know what I’m saying? 803 804 Q: Yeah, no... 805 806 A: And it’s just - I (unintelligible) to me so - so that’s why I ask those questions... 807 808 Q: And ma- no it makes sense. 809 810 A: ...but it was never like... 811 812 Q: It - it makes sense to me, I understand. I kind of got a picture of who you are, 813 you’re very organized, you’re very thoughtful, uh, you - like I said, you seem 814 very intelligent and you make some decisions based on fact. And so you’re - 815 you’re, uh, inquiring if these people have, uh, their life together. So it - it - I - 816 I understand why you’re asking those questions, it - it makes sense to me from 817 a standpoint of who - what I can who you are and how you do things. So, um, 818 it makes sense to me. Yep. 819 820 A: Okay I just - well and I just - I hope he didn’t like misinterpret any of that but, 821 you know, I always really tried to tell this man like, “Hey we need to take this 822 slow,” so I don’t know, he never seemed like he really wanted to take it that 823 slow. I think he was like in fifth gear like the entire time, you know, and it 824 was me that was trying to tell him like, “Hey you don’t need to be like that.” 825 And - and shame on me I think if I’m in a relationship with somebody who’s 826 like trying to move a lot faster than me then maybe it is up to me to hit the 827 brakes. ‘Cause like honestly he was so kind to me that I just had a really hard 828 time being like why am I gonna push him away. 829 830 Q: Sure. 831 832 A: And so I didn’t. And it is what it is... 833 834 Q: Well I can see in your... 835 836 A: ...um, I just... 837 838 Q: ...in the cards that your provided yesterday, I - I looked at them this morning, 839 um, I think the earliest one was dated your birthday and he was quite, uh, 840 enthralled with you at that time and you guys hadn’t even been dating about a 841 - a month by your account. 842 843 A: Oh I think we probably had sex maybe like twice at that point. 844 845 Q: Right. And - and you started dating in June... 846 847 A: It was super early. 848 849 Q: Right, you guys dated - started dating in June, so you’re having sex two times 850 by the time he sends that card. And then the next one is like July 30 if I recall 851 and I mean he is basically telling you he’s infatuated with you. And then he 852 hand writes a note, um, that says, you know, you’re his life, i- is the way I 853 kind of read that. So I mean he was - he was very, um, he - I can see what you 854 mean by him moving very quickly. Uh, that... 855 856 A: Yes. I mean... 857 858 Q: ...that’s obviously just in those cards that you provided. 859 860 A: Yes. Yes. You know, and - and even then like when I read these I’m like it 861 was a little much for me and I was like damn, like he even gave me two of 862 ‘em on one day and I was just like - it was - it was a lot but at the same time it 863 wasn’t really like a red flag, like I don’t know, I’ve dated a lot of douchebags 864 in my life so like having a guy that like wants to get me cards and roses and - I 865 mean flowers and stuff I’m like, you know maybe I’ll just like roll with this 866 and see what happens. Like it was very different than anything that I ever had 867 but it wasn’t uncomfortable, like it was more respectful than anything I’ve 868 ever had so I didn’t like - it didn’t really register to me like hey this might be a 869 problem. Like usually it’s the people that treat you really bad where you’re 870 like hey this is an issue. So it didn’t click, you know, and now I’m looking 871 back and I’m like whoa, like I don’t even think that this guy necessarily was 872 like in love with me, I think this guy was like lusting over me a lot. 873 874 Q: Right. I think that’ a fair assessment. So let’s - let’s move on from - from that. 875 Um, I - there’s a couple questions I didn’t, uh, ask you yesterday and their 876 very specific. You mentioned you guys - obviously you’re into fitness and so 877 was he, did you guys go to the same gym? 878 879 A: No. He worked out in his basement. I never went to the gym with him. 880 881 Q: Okay so he - do you know him to go to any gyms? ‘Cause you said like you 882 were planning for his apartment and how he could get to his gym and then do 883 his day - kids, uh, school and then to work. 884 885 A: Well yeah, I was trying to get a - ‘cause he was gonna have to go to a gym if 886 he had an apartment because he’s not gonna be able to set up all that gym 887 equipment in an apartment. 888 889 Q: Okay. So he... 890 891 A: So - so right now... 892 893 Q: ...you know him... 894 895 A: ...he works out out of his house... 896 897 Q: Okay. 898 899 A: ...but if he were to move, just because he’s downsizing so much I don’t think 900 he has that capability. I mean I would love to have a gym in my apartment, 901 that would be nice but I just didn’t think he had the capability so that’s why I 902 brought it up. Like ‘cause we were even discussing like what gym do you 903 want to go to, you know, and he was like, “Well there’s an Anytime Fitness 904 over there,” and I was like, “Well it’s, you know, it’s close, it’s open 24/7 and 905 it’s big,” like we had all sorts of discussions about that. 906 907 Q: Okay. But you don’t know him to ever have visited a gym? 908 909 A: Not in the time that I, um, was spending time with him. Now he did like 910 workout with me one day at my house, like we did a little bit of yoga and like 911 a - like an ab routine, I showed him an ab routine but it wasn’t at a gym... 912 913 Q: Okay. 914 915 A: ...it was literally like on my living room floor on some yoga mats. 916 917 Q: All right. And what gym do you go to? 918 919 A: I go to 24 Hour Fitness. 920 921 Q: Which one? 922 923 A: Uh, the one - it depends on the day but, uh, usually the one off of - it’s like 924 Bradbur- it’s like Vrain and 120th. 925 926 Q: R- Rain? What street, I’m sorry? 927 928 A: I think it’s Vrain... 929 930 Q: Oh, Vrain. 931 932 A: ...V-R- like Victor... 933 934 Q: Mm-hm. 935 936 A: ...Vrain... 937 938 Q: Yep. 939 940 A: ...um, or Bradburn. But it’s - it’s - it’s over there, I think it’s the Broomfield 941 one but it’s the big one, like just west of the highway. 942 943 Q: Okay. And, um, so we asked last night, we - we were talking a little bit about, 944 you know Chris’ dramatic, uh, weight loss during, uh, the first period of him 945 working out and becoming a better eater, and I asked if he was taking any 946 narcotics, such - and you said no. The one question I didn’t ask, do you know 947 him if he ever took anything, other illegal substances other than, you know, I - 948 most people when I say narcotics and I need to be more specific, you know, 949 would si- think meth or something to that effect, but steroids or any of those 950 things? Did you - do you know him to use any of those? 951 952 A: Not that I’m aware of at all. 953 954 Q: Okay. So that leads me into, uh, Shanann was a promoter for - a lack of better 955 term for this product called Thrive. 956 957 A: Yeah I know a lot about that. 958 959 Q: Okay. 960 961 A: He was always doing that, is that considered like a - I consider that a 962 supplement, not like a drug. But maybe... 963 964 Q: So - so can you just... 965 966 A: He always had that stuff. 967 968 Q: So it’s a patch, right? I don’t know a lot about it but Chris - so Chris was 969 always... 970 971 A: I don’t either. 972 973 Q: ...using Thrive? 974 975 A: Always. He always had at least like two of those things stuck to him 976 somewhere. He tried to get me to use ‘em but I was like, “Uh, no. Like I just 977 eat clean, go to the gym and I stay fit. I’m not gonna stick some little thing on 978 me.” 979 980 Q: So you think it’s just some kind of supplement? 981 982 A: Uh, I kind of, I don’t - I think it’s bullshit honestly but it’s just me. I don’t, uh 983 - I don’t - I just I don’t know, I mean I’ve always - I just - I eat natural foods 984 and I go to the gym like four or five days a week. I don’t even workout that 985 hard to be honest with you, I still eat cheap meals, I still enjoy my weekends, 986 I’m not like a super gym addict and I’ve always stayed in shape so when he 987 came to me he was like, “Thrive helped me lose weight,” and I never like 988 dogged that. I was just like, “If that’s what it helped you do that’s great.” But 989 he said he plateaued on it and I was like, “Well because you’re not eating 990 healthy, you know, because you don’t need to on that stuff but you can only 991 lose so much weight on like diet supplements and diet plans before you like 992 get stagnant.” And then he was like, “Well I want to eat healthier,” and so that 993 was when I was like, “Well I’ll help you like to - to get stuff, you know, just 994 to show you how to eat healthier and like how to do that.” And he was kind of 995 - I was trying to get him to like do it on his own but I was just kind of giving 996 him some basic steps just from what I know from just my experience and I 997 don’t know, being in health and fitness like lifestyle for the last four or five 998 years. 999 1000 Q: Okay. So Thrive for him was something that he used on a daily basis at least 1001 two patches on at all times you said, um, but you don’t think - for you you 1002 don’t - it’s just a supplement and it - from what I di- my brief research over 1003 the last couple days is kind of a, uh, product that might give you energy and 1004 helps you lose weight and there’s kind of a life coaching sup- uh, part of this 1005 thing in there? Is that a fair assessment of what you know Thrive to be? 1006 1007 A: Yeah I guess. Like I’d have him try to explain it to me a couple times and he 1008 really couldn’t explain it to me, like I don’t even think he knows in full depth 1009 exactly what that stuff is. 1010 1011 Q: Okay. Fair enough. 1012 1013 A: ‘Cause I was just like - ‘cause he’s like, “Do you want some of this?” I’m like, 1014 “No,” I’m like, “If you could tell me what it is then maybe I will try it,” but I 1015 mean I still - I think I even still have two of those patches in my purse that he 1016 gave me. Let me see ‘cause I never used ‘em, I was like what am I going to do 1017 with this? Um, let me see. I might have them. I don’t know, maybe I don’t. 1018 Yeah I do. 1019 1020 Q: Okay so you have some patches that he gave you? 1021 1022 A: Yeah and I never used ‘em, like those have been sittin’ in there since probably 1023 close to the time that we started hangin’ out... 1024 1025 Q: Okay. 1026 1027 A: ...’cause I forgot I had those ‘til just now. 1028 1029 Q: All right. Okay those are the only questions I had. Um, so if you’ll do me a 1030 favor and as, uh, new thoughts come up just write ‘em down so you don’t lose 1031 ‘em and then give me a few hours and let me try to get some arrangements 1032 made with a victim advocate to reach out to you regarding, uh, some of your 1033 struggles here. And I’ll get back to you with that person’s name so you know 1034 who they are. 1035 1036 A: Okay. Okay I thought - there’s something else, see now I’m remember these 1037 things that I was gonna tell you today. 1038 1039 Q: Okay. 1040 1041 A: So, um, you and (Mark) both asked me this question, so Saturday when he and 1042 I went out to dinner, you and I - you guys both asked me, you said, “So he 1043 came to pick you up?” So I’m like, “Is this a trick question? No he didn’t 1044 come pick me up, I told you guys we drove my truck and he never picked me 1045 up.” Um, but I’m assuming it something of significance that you guys both 1046 asked, what it is it’s not my business but, um, I don’t know if it really matters 1047 at all but he drove my truck, I didn’t. Like we drove my vehicle, he just was 1048 the one operating it, I don’t know if that really matters at all, like... 1049 1050 Q: No. 1051 1052 A: ...like I don’t know if that’s even relevant but I didn’t think so. 1053 1054 Q: I’ll - I’ll just ex- that’s just a ques- so we were trying to verify what vehicle he 1055 was driving ‘cause we didn’t know if he had more than one vehicle. That’s all 1056 I was lookin’ for. 1057 1058 A: Oh no, no, no. 1059 1060 Q: Okay? 1061 1062 A: Okay. And then, um, on that note he... 1063 1064 Q: And again, you said yesterday the - the only car he had is the Lexus. 1065 1066 A: Yes. And then you guys also asked too, you said, um, “Did he mention a 1067 Rockies game,” and you asked me that last night about Saturday when him 1068 and I went out and you’re like, “Did he mention a Rockies game,” and the 1069 first thing my brain thought of was, “Well no, we went to go watch the 1070 Broncos game at that restaurant and didn’t even watch it.” And then I got to 1071 thinkin’ about it and I was like he did mention a Rockies game. He told the 1072 babysitter that was watching his kids on Saturday night that he was going to a 1073 Rockies game. 1074 1075 Q: Okay do you know why he lied to her? 1076 1077 A: Probably because nobody knows about us. 1078 1079 Q: Okay. All right, that makes sense. ‘Cause we - so we had heard you - that he 1080 had gone to a Rockies game so we - that’s why when, you know, when we 1081 found out about you what we were suspicious about him having, um - uh, a 1082 girlfriend. So that’s - those were the lines of questions and don’t read too 1083 much into the questions because the questions I have for you might not mean 1084 anything or they might mean a lot. So, um, they’re - they’re more sometimes 1085 just to tie pieces together and tie timeframes together and to answer other 1086 questions that we don’t have answers to so don’t - don’t dwell into things too 1087 much like, you know, if he drove your truck or not. If we ask you something 1088 just be truthful, um, and give the response and then, you know, don’t - don’t 1089 dwell on what we’re asking for ‘cause it’s just gonna drive you mad. 1090 1091 A: Yeah I know, I promised myself - I read the news this morning, I found out 1092 where they found those little girls, it’s so disgusting, that’s so scary. And then 1093 I promised myself after that, I was like I’m not gonna read the news for the 1094 rest of the day and I’ve been in a much better mood so... 1095 1096 Q: There you go. 1097 1098 A: ...that’s definitely helping. But I, uh, I did read something last night, a phone - 1099 an article and again I know how the media is but, um, I did read something, 1100 uh, where they interviewed one of his friends and his friend said that Shanann 1101 before all this happened was like getting ready to leave him and that she was 1102 suspecting infidelity with him and that she had told her friend that, and it just 1103 like made my stomach sink because I was just like praying like I really, really, 1104 really, really hope that whatever conversation they had that night that like 1105 sparked all of this shit was not about me. 1106 1107 Q: Right. Okay. Again, I don’t think we ever - I - I told you I don’t think that 1108 there’s an answer for, uh, any of those questions right now, I think there’s a 1109 multitude of reasons why these things happened. And - and trying to pinpoint 1110 or, uh, put a finger on why this happened or blaming yourself is not really 1111 gonna do you any good. Uh, just like yesterday you were concerned that you 1112 should’ve called the police on Monday, and really you didn’t have - I - with 1113 your assessment of going on there would be no reason for you to. Now the 1114 other people, like I said yesterday, they had war- more information than you 1115 did and they took a step that you didn’t because of that information. And the - 1116 the same thing goes for this, there’s no don’t - don’t beat yourself up over, uh, 1117 what has occurred. I mean this is out of your control, you didn’t do anything 1118 to th- this woman and - or her children. Um it’s, you know, unfortunate for 1119 you that you’re tied into this but it’s not your doing so don’t beat yourself up 1120 too much about it. 1121 1122 A: You know, (Mark) put it pretty good the other day, he told me, he said, “You 1123 didn’t do this, Chris did this.” 1124 1125 Q: That’s right. 1126 1127 A: He said, “You are not on trial, he is on trial.” And I was just like that is a good 1128 way to look at that. I, um - okay well, um... 1129 1130 Q: Okay. Keep that in mind, you - I mean... 1131 1132 A: ...well I... 1133 1134 Q: ...there’s things that happen in our life every day that are out of our control 1135 and unfortunately this one is - is a massive issue but is there something you 1136 could’ve done -- I think we asked this question -- was there something you 1137 could’ve done to prevent this from happening? And although I didn’t maybe 1138 ask it that way yesterday your answer was, “I didn’t know this was gonna 1139 happen.” Um, so if you didn’t know it was gonna happen, he never made 1140 mention of this happening, um, then what are you to do to prevent it? 1141 1142 A: Right. 1143 1144 Q: Right? 1145 1146 A: Understood. Uh, well like I - well and I mean but sometimes I still think about 1147 like did he just really like lose his shit that night and he was just so upset that 1148 he like, you know, decided to take out his whole family, I’m like or was he 1149 like plotting this whole fucking thing? I don’t know. I mean okay so now I 1150 (unintelligible) more stuff. So then another thing - so (unintelligible) that I 1151 think one of the most significant phone conversations that I had with him, two 1152 things - so one of the most significant phone conversations I had with him was 1153 that very first one on Monday night ‘cause that was the one where he talked 1154 about the sheets and that was the one where that he was wishing and that’s 1155 when he talked about the blankets missing from the kids’ room, and that was 1156 also the one where he talked about trying to freakin’ get her wedding ring 1157 appraised. 1158 1159 Q: Right. 1160 1161 A: Like all of that like really creepy shit happened like in that... 1162 1163 Q: Okay. 1164 1165 A: ...phone call. And that was when I really - really started getting scared. And 1166 you’ll probably see that when we link up those texts. Like... 1167 1168 Q: Okay. 1169 1170 A: ...I sort of I think almost every - it was probably every other text I was saying 1171 to him was just like, “I’m really scared. I’m really scared.” 1172 1173 Q: Right. 1174 1175 A: And I think that that was when I was just like okay I’m creeped out. And then 1176 like Tuesday nothing gotten better and then I found out he was lying to me 1177 and I was already kind of creeped out from the night before and I was like 1178 okay, you know, and - and I didn’t even realize it until you guys were like, 1179 “Try to just think back on some of that.” And then last night I was just like 1180 thinking about all those phone conversations that we had on Monday night 1181 and I’m like you know what, those were really uncomfortable, in fact, they 1182 were so uncomfortable I ended that Skype conversation because... 1183 1184 Q: Right. 1185 1186 A: ...it made me so uncomfortable. 1187 1188 Q: Okay. Well ha- hand tight, let me go make some phone calls and try to get th- 1189 things in order for, uh, somebody to call you. And again, write down any 1190 thoughts that you think are relative. The information you provided today is, 1191 um, very - was very important and I thank you for reachin’ out and providing 1192 it to me. 1193 1194 A: Okay. 1195 1196 Q: Okay? 1197 1198 A: Um, I will do that. Can I call you back pretty soon though ‘cause I really... 1199 1200 Q: Yeah I - I’m - I’m gonna jump on... 1201 1202 A: ...need to get on a roll - roll with like this Anadarko thing. 1203 1204 Q: Yep, I’m gonna walk out of the office that I’m in right now and go talk to the 1205 people who handle that, uh, and see if we can get somebody in touch with you 1206 sooner rather than later. 1207 1208 A: Thank you. 1209 1210 Q: All right. 1211 1212 A: Should I - wai- wai- wait, should I wait to talk to my boss before I talk to 1213 them or (unintelligible)... 1214 1215 Q: I - you might want to talk to them first. Um, you - you know, it’s a decision 1216 that you need to make. But it - I think they’re gonna be more interested in 1217 your personal health and that certainly revolves into your personal and 1218 professional life so you might just give them a minute to talk to you and then 1219 you can - that might help you make a decision on what you want to do. 1220 1221 A: I think that sounds great. I appreciate you taking the time to do this. Um, I 1222 know I had five things I wanted to say to you and I only remembered like four 1223 of them so I might like text you or call you... 1224 1225 Q: Perfect. 1226 1227 A: ...or something later and let you know... 1228 1229 Q: Would... 1230 1231 A: ...if I think of something. 1232 1233 Q: Yep. 1234 1235 A: But I think that I got the big ones out of the way on that. 1236 1237 Q: Okay. It’s the - it’s best to text me, uh, because -- um, I didn’t mention this is 1238 in the beginning but you probably know -- any time we talk I record it, 1239 especially regarding the information that we just discussed so if you text me 1240 then I can move to a quiet area so I can run a recorder. Um, that way both 1241 what you say to me is, you know, I don’t misrepresent what you say, uh, it’s - 1242 it’s coming out of your mouth and that’s why it’s recorded. Okay? 1243 1244 A: Is this gonna be one of those things where if it goes to trial they’ll like hold 1245 me accountable for every single little itty bitty word ‘cause sometimes... 1246 1247 Q: I - I told you - I told you last night just remember, um... 1248 1249 A: ...I don’t remember the exact words... 1250 1251 Q: ...yo- you’ll be - if it does go to trial there’d be some prep but again, you just 1252 tell the truth as you remember it and that’s all you have to do. And nobody 1253 expects anybody in, uh, you know, three months, six months, nine months, 1254 five years, whatever it might be, to remember exactly what somebody told me, 1255 uh, in that span of time ago. So you just be - don’t worry about that right now. 1256 We’ll cross that bridge when we get there if it ever gets there. Okay? 1257 1258 A: Sounds good. 1259 1260 Q: All right. Take care and I’ll call, uh, either I - I will call you and give you the 1261 name of the person who’s gonna reach out to you. 1262 1263 A: Can you do that? ‘Cause I have like - so at this point forward (Mark) was just 1264 like, “If you don’t know if media’s gonna call or anybody,” he’s... 1265 1266 Q: Yep. 1267 1268 A: ...like, “I’d make people leave a voicemail and... 1269 1270 Q: Sure. 1271 1272 A: ...just don’t answer ‘em (unintelligible).” 1273 1274 Q: I will give you - I will call you and tell you their name and their phone 1275 number which they’re calling from so you can be confident who they are. 1276 1277 A: Thank you. 1278 1279 Q: All right (Nicky), thanks. 1280 1281 A: Have a good one. 1282 1283 Q: You too, bye-bye. 1284 1285 A: Bye. 1286 1287 Q: The time is 11:41, I’m gonna stop the recording. 1288 1289 1290 The transcript has been reviewed with the audio recording submitted and it is an accurate 1291 transcription. 1292 Signed___Agent Kevin Koback

Code - 1STPH17AUG1051AM TELEPHONIC INTERVIEW WITH NICHOL KESSINGER 8 Q=Agent Kevin Koback 9 A=Nichol Kessinger 10 11 12 Q: Today is August 17, 2018. The time is 1051 am. This is Agent Kevin Koback 13 from CBI makin’ a phone call to witness in the Watts matter, Nichol Lee 14 Kessinger at 720-656-9605. Nichol, uh, texted me last night and said that she 15 recalled some further information after an interview with her on the 16th. So 16 this phone call will be to update whatever information she wants to provide 17 and address a couple other issues that were not addressed during the initial 18 interview. 19 20 A: Hello? 21 22 Q: Hi (Nicky), it’s Kevin. 23 24 A: Hi. 25 26 Q: How are you? Sorry, uh... 27 28 A: I’m o... 29 30 Q: ...sorry for the delay, I got stuck in a meeting obviously, uh, I couldn’t walk 31 out so I apologize for taking so long to get back to you. 32 33 A: That’s okay. 34 35 Q: You at least got a couple hours of sleep last night? 36 37 A: Yeah. 38 39 Q: You - you sound a little bit better than yesterday. 40 41 A: I feel a little bit better, not much but I feel like sitting down just talking about 42 all that with everybody is like - it’s helping. 43 44 Q: Good. Well I think just keep that up and again if you need any- if you - if I 45 can put you in touch with somebody from, uh, Victim Advocate to whatever I 46 can help you with just call and ask. 47 48 A: Okay. 49 50 Q: Okay? 51 52 A: Um, I’m gonna need you to do that once we’re done talking. 53 54 Q: Okay. Sure I can get somebody in touch with you today. Um, and you don’t 55 need to tell me about anything, we talked about that yesterday but it might be 56 something good for you to do and - and I can make that happen today. 57 58 A: Thank you. 59 60 Q: You’re welcome. So what - you texted me about 2:00 am and said that you, 61 uh, remembered some other information. What did you remember? 62 63 A: Like just kind of odds and ends. Um, and I’m sure there will be more as this 64 goes on, I just, you know, I (unintelligible) so much that sometimes like I just 65 have to stop and think about how much information that I have gotten from 66 him over the last few months and the last week or so and, you know, like I 67 said I never know what’s true and what’s not and... 68 69 Q: Sure. 70 71 A: ...I just figure I’ll give you guys everything I have and hopefully I don’t have 72 to keep calling back with more but no promises. Um... 73 74 Q: No that’s okay, please do. I - like I told you yesterday, anything that comes to 75 mind that you think is important I’d like to know. Because you - again you 76 know him better than anybody probably over the last six to eight weeks so 77 that’s - that’s - anything that he said to you or anything that stands out to you 78 as you’re reflecting on all this, um, kind of mess here is important for me to 79 know. 80 81 A: Understood. Um, a couple things. So, one, I went back and I tried to like find 82 whatever texts you were talking about between my friend (Charlotte) and me 83 with the eHarmony thing and I don’t know what you’re talking about. 84 85 Q: Okay. 86 87 A: Um, if you - and I - I mean her and I text so much though so like if you find it 88 and you show it to me let me know but it’s just like I mean I was on that site 89 but it was never like worth a damn for me so... 91 Q: Sure. 92 93 A: ...it wasn’t really something that I ever like discussed with her. However, 94 when I was going back through there I did realize that I had like off-handedly 95 mentioned to her a little bit about Chris. I didn’t tell her that I was like - how 96 deep the rabbit hole went on that I guess you could say, but it was kind of 97 vague and she was asking a lot of questions at that point but it was just like oh 98 you know what, I did say something to her. Um... 99 100 Q: You guys - I think, um, I just looked at the - the messages and it - there’s was 101 some like little bit of conversation regarding, “Yeah he’s got kids,” um, there 102 was some conversations about some sexual related stuff, and that was about it. 103 Does that sound right? 104 105 A: Yeah that’s it. But I mean I did mention it to her. And honestly we’ve talked 106 since then and I haven’t even mentioned him. And that girl is so wrapped up 107 in everything that’s goin’ on in her life like I don’t even think she realizes 108 what’s going on in the news. 109 110 Q: Okay. 111 112 A: I don’t even think she’s gonna connect the dots, like I would be surprised. But 113 like I honestly am convinced that if I don’t say a word about it I bet you she 114 won’t even bring him up. 115 116 Q: Okay. 117 118 A: And even if she did if I was just like, “Yeah he’s not around anymore in my 119 life,” like I don’t even think - I’m not concerned about her. 120 121 Q: Okay. An- and the - the only - again, the only concern I had there is there 122 seemed like there was some conversation about a boyfriend and it doesn’t 123 seem like - so you were actually talking to her about Chris, not a boyfriend? 124 125 A: Uh, yeah I don’t - I like - I look back to those texts and I’m like what is he 126 talking about? I don’t see anything about eHarmony. I mean and if it’s in 127 there, maybe it is and I just missed it but it’s like... 128 129 Q: Okay. 130 131 A: ...no I don’t know. I don’t know, I mean everybody in my... 132 133 Q: It- it’s not all that important. It’s not all that important... 134 135 A: Okay. 136 137 Q: ...so we can move past that. 138 139 A: Okay. 140 141 Q: What - what else? 142 143 A: Um, on Monday night so a couple things. Um, I told you we had been - he like 144 texted me and then at the end of the night we had - he had called or I had 145 called. I think he called me. But either way we were on the phone with each 146 other and like parts - and at some point when we were on the phone he was 147 like - he was like, “Do you want to FaceTime?” And I remember I was laying 148 in bed and I was - and I was just like, “You know what, okay. Let me turn on 149 the light.” And I remember I turned on the light and we FaceTimed and when 150 we FaceTimed he didn’t really say much, like it was almost kind of awkward. 151 I don’t even know why I didn’t think of this earlier but it was like - it was very 152 short too, it was super brief. And I remember... 153 154 Q: Like what- what’s short? 155 156 A: What? 157 158 Q: What - what is short? Like a couple of minutes or 30 minutes? 159 160 A: Oh no, I bet it was only probably like less than five minutes. I think it was... 161 162 Q: Okay. 163 164 A: ...only like a couple of minutes. 165 166 Q: Okay. 167 168 A: And he - I think we - we were like talking a little bit but he like - he was 169 laying down on a mattress that didn’t have any sheets on it. And, um, I was 170 like okay, so I was thinkin’ like well maybe he’s like - he’s in bed, I don’t 171 know what’s up but I remember asking him like, “Where’s your sheets,” you 172 know, and he’s like - he was like, “Oh I washed ‘em.” And then this is the part 173 I don’t remember if this sentence right here came in this FaceTime 174 conversation or if it came in a phone conversation prior to the FaceTime 175 conversation but regardless this next sentence came on Monday night and I 176 am so sorry that I cannot like always remember chronological every little 177 detail. 178 179 Q: That’s okay, it’s understandable. 181 A: There’s so much. Um, but I remember he was saying that he was cleaning the 182 house, um, to try to keep busy to take his mind off of things. And this was on 183 the phone. And I didn’t - and it was kind of late when he was doing it and like 184 I didn’t honestly think that much about it originally because that man is 185 always cleaning, like he was very, very organized, meticulous, cleaning 186 individual. Like he’s the type of guy that will like vacuum his whole house 187 one week and if there’s rooms that don’t get used he’d vacuum again the next 188 week just because it’s like part of his routine. 189 190 Q: Okay. 191 192 A: So the fact - so the fact that he’s like cleaning to kill time and take his mind 193 off things did not seem like a super red flag to me, um, because I was like 194 okay well that’s what he does, he just like - on his days off like he organizes 195 the basement or he like cleans his garage, it’s just - it’s what he does. 196 197 Q: Okay. 198 199 A: And, um, so anyways so that didn’t seem that, uh, like the norm for me but 200 something that just kind of like dawned on me last night is he made the 201 comment directly after that, he said, “I had to wash the kids’ sheets,” he was 202 like, “They smelled.” And I was like - was thinkin’ about that last night and 203 I’m like this man keeps that house so clean, that’s like the cleanest house I’ve 204 ever seen. And I - this man keeps that house so clean why would his kids’ 205 sheets smell bad? 206 207 Q: And this... 208 209 A: And that... 210 211 Q: You think this... 212 213 A: What? 214 215 Q: ...was Monday night? What time do you think it was Monday night? 216 217 A: Oh God, I don’t even know. I almost wish you guys would show me my 218 phone records... 219 220 Q: So I’m gonna - I’m gonna read off your phone calls for Monday and Tuesday 221 starting... 222 223 A: ...(unintelligible). No it’s all Monday. Just - just tell me... 224 225 Q: Okay so... 226 227 A: ...on Monday night. 228 229 Q: ...Monday night you guys had, um, we talked about, um, a phone call 230 yesterday but you guys had a phone call Monday night, it looks like he called 231 you, it was 48 minutes and 58 seconds, it was at 9:48 pm that he called you. 232 Um, so... 233 234 A: Okay. 235 236 Q: ...that would take us to about 10:35 and then there’s another call on Monday, 237 it’s for 51 minutes and 25 seconds it looks like. I’m not sure lookin’ at this 238 who called who but it looks like you called him and that was at 11:09 pm, that 239 lasted 51 minutes so that takes us to, um, midnight. And then there’s another 240 phone call where he calls you - so we’re now into midnight, you know, 241 Tuesday morning, it’s a 30 minute phone call, um, that lasts until 12:38 am. 242 And then after 12:38 am there’s a 2 minute and 44 second phone call that lasts 243 for - or pardon me, that starts at 1:12 am, it’s 2 minutes and 44 seconds so... 244 245 A: Yeah so I would almost - this is just me but I would go get my text messages 246 with him from that night and I would like sync them up to that like timeframe. 247 Because... 248 249 Q: Okay. 250 251 A: ...there was texting in between that. So I think what happened is he called me 252 on that first call. And then there’s that gap between the first call and the 253 second call, in - in that gap that was when I - we FaceTimed for a few minutes 254 and that was when I got up out of bed because I was just having trouble 255 sleeping and I was like - I went and did laundry. That’s what I did, I went like 256 put some clo- I just put some clothes in the dryer and then I think I called him 257 back and then we continued to talk. So that little gap right there between those 258 two big phone calls at the very beginning of the night... 259 260 Q: Yes. 261 262 A: ...well not the very beginning of the night but the like the big, big ones at the - 263 the first two, somewhere between that gap there’s a - there’s like a quick 264 FaceTime and then there’s... 265 266 Q: So you think that 2 minute and 44 second is the FaceTime? 267 268 A: The one at the very end? 269 270 Q: Yeah. Well so there’s - there - there... 271 272 A: No I don’t - I don’t - I don’t - I - I don’t - I don’t even think the FaceTime’s 273 on there... 274 275 Q: Okay so... 276 277 A: ...’cause the FaceTime occurred in between those two big phone calls, that... 278 279 Q: Okay. 280 281 A: ...like I know. 282 283 Q: Okay. 284 285 A: ‘Cause it was - so it was like one big phone call and then there’s - and then 286 there should have been - there’s a FaceTime and then - and - and the 287 FaceTime’s short, it’s only a few minutes. And then there’s probably just a 288 few more minutes... 289 290 Q: There’s... 291 292 A: ...and that’s probably - there’s what? 293 294 Q: So there’s a few more calls on Tuesday, so 1:12 is the 2 minute and 44 second 295 call. That - so that lasts ‘til, um, ab- approximately 1:14, and then there’s a 296 long gap, uh, until 1:50. So another 45 - or 35 minutes and then there’s a 7 297 minute phone call. That phone calls lasts... 298 299 A: Yeah. 300 301 Q: ...’til 1:58 am. And then there’s a 10 second phone call at 2:07 am, followed 302 by, um - so he - I think he called you and maybe leaves a voicemail or 303 something or doesn’t - you don’t pick up, uh, so there’s a 10 second call. And 304 then directly after that there’s a 10 minute and 24 second phone call. 305 306 A: Okay so I’m talking about the two at the very beginning of the - the two at the 307 very beginning... 308 309 Q: Okay the lo- the two long ones? 310 311 A: ...the really long ones. 312 313 Q: And is that... 314 315 A: Yes. So... 316 317 Q: ...when he’s talking about the kids’, um, sheets? 318 319 A: Yes with the shee- okay so yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I will help you line this up, 320 like I almost want to just come in there and like drop and drag all of my texts 321 to where they were going with it because (unintelligible)... 322 323 Q: And you know what, we may meet and do that, uh, here coming early next 324 week. 325 326 A: ‘Cause - yeah well all those phone calls at the very end of the night, that was 327 me freaking out. Like if you look at my texts a lot of that was like, “I can’t 328 sleep. I’m really scared. Where’s your family?” That was like me freaking out 329 and... 330 331 Q: Okay. 332 333 A: ...him calling to like try to reassure me or me calling him like, “Please talk to 334 me, I’m super scared. Where’s your family?” Like those - those little ones at 335 the very end of the night are - are me not being able to sleep and trying to get 336 him to like talk to me about like - and just I guess making sure everything was 337 okay. So that - those - those like real late ones and that’s why they’re all kind 338 of like sporadic ‘cause I’d be up for like an hour and then I’d fall asleep for 339 like 15 minutes and then I would like wake up and start stressin’ again and try 340 to call him back. Like so that’s why there are all these like little sporadic 341 ones... 342 343 Q: Okay. 344 345 A: ...throughout the end of the night. But those two big ones, um... 346 347 Q: Is - is - so yesterday we talked about Tuesday was mainly text messages 348 regarding, um, your confrontation about his wife being pregnant. 349 350 A: Yeah. 351 352 Q: Is that accurate? Um... 353 354 A: It is. And I mean... 355 356 Q: Okay. 357 358 A: ...I guess - I guess those phone calls were on Tuesday morning but for me it 359 was still Monday night. So like... 360 361 Q: Okay I ge- I get it. 362 363 A: ...talking to you guys last night... 364 365 Q: Right. 366 367 A: ...that’s how I refer to it ‘cause I hadn’t like gone to bed yet. 368 369 Q: Okay. 370 371 A: You know what I’m saying? 372 373 Q: Yep. No that makes sense to me. Okay so... 374 375 A: Okay. So - so sorry... 376 377 Q: ...so he... 378 379 A: ...so I guess those technically were on Tuesday but according to my daily 380 sleep schedule that was still my Monday night. 381 382 Q: Right. So the last phone call, um, with him on Monday - well it- it’s - it - it 383 basically starts into Tuesda- um, it takes you all the way to Tuesday, it 384 actually ends like basically... 385 386 A: Okay. 387 388 Q: ...at midnight on Monday, August 31. So, um... 389 390 A: Okay. 391 392 Q: ...his wife gets home sometime at about 2 o’ clock on, um, that morning. So... 393 394 A: No she got home on Sunday. They got home on Sun... 395 396 Q: Pardon me, Sunday. She got home on Sunday so did you ever talk to ‘em late 397 on Sunday night? 398 399 A: No we were on the phone but I mean I - I had to let him go and get up and go 400 to work so sometime... 401 402 Q: That was the 9:00 to 11:00 call that we - it was like a 2 hour phone call we 403 talked about yesterday on Sunday night from 9:00 pm to 11:00. 404 405 A: And that would’ve been the last time that I talked to him until the work day on 406 Monday. 407 408 Q: And that’s when he texts you at like 3:45. 409 410 A: No we talked during work, remember I told you he like randomly texted me 411 throughout the day at work but it was like - it was just like bullshit 412 conversation. 413 414 Q: Okay. 415 416 A: It wasn’t anything of significance. 417 418 Q: No - no substance, okay. So the - the most important thing that you’ve said 419 here is this Monday night phone call, um, he doesn’t have any sheets on the 420 bed and he said his children’s sheets were smelly... 421 422 A: They smelled. 423 424 Q: Okay. 425 426 A: Yeah so let’s - let’s get back to that ‘cause I feel like you and me are kind of 427 getting off track. 428 429 Q: Yep. 430 431 A: So both of those - those - those - that - that first long phone call on Monday 432 night was I think when he told me that, I don’t think he told me that in the 433 FaceTime text - I mean in the FaceTime conversation, I think he told me that 434 in the first conversation where he was like, “Their sheets smell.” And I 435 remember thinking to myself like why, like you keep such a clean house, like 436 why would your kids’ sheets stink? And like it just didn’t really click. And 437 then last night I was... 438 439 Q: Did you - did you confront him why they... 440 441 A: What’s up? 442 443 Q: Did you confront him why the sheets smelled or did you inquire why? 444 445 A: No. No, no, no, no I didn’t even ask. I didn’t even ask. 446 447 Q: Do you know his - I mean, uh, his children were quite young and I think one 448 of ‘em was still in diapers, um, would - would that have been a potential 449 reason, you know, that one of ‘em had an accident or did it seem like that’s 450 not what he was talking about? 451 452 A: I don’t know. I mean he didn’t elaborate. 453 454 Q: Okay. 455 456 A: He was just like - I mean like I said he always cleans the house but even if his 457 kids were to be in diapers and like have accidents like I just feel like the man 458 keeps his house so clean and she does too, they both must have to to like 459 coexist in a house that clean but like I just don’t see anything in that house 460 like smelling. 461 462 Q: Okay. All right. 463 464 A: So that was why I brought that up ‘cause I was like whoa okay. Um... 465 466 Q: Very important, thanks for remember that. 467 468 A: Yeah I’m trying, I’m really trying to help you guys. I just - I need you guys to 469 help me too... 470 471 Q: Yes, ma’am. 472 473 A: ...like we will do this as a team but just don’t... 474 475 Q: So the - the reason... 476 477 A: ...fuckin’ let me down please. I... 478 479 Q: ...why, um, we can’t - like I do - I think, uh - I did think about this yesterday 480 that I would like to sit down with you once we, um, have your text messages 481 and the phone calls and we can put ‘em on - in a - a some type of easily look- 482 that we can sit down and look at them and compare them and we can kind of 483 get the context of how everything was going that night, I would like to do that 484 with you. Unfortunately - so the download that we got yesterday is gonna 485 take, uh, multiple days to be analyzed, I probably won’t have it back ‘til next 486 week. And then - because you guys did have so many, um, text messages, uh, 487 there’s - one of my analyst is working on getting those in order so we can put 488 something together where we can actually sit down and discuss it. But I do 489 think that’s something that we would - I want to do in the near future, some 490 time probably next week. 491 492 A: I mean I can do that, I don’t mind giving you guys my time, I just need you 493 guys to like help me with my employer and try to just help me brace for this 494 media thing and just try to help me - help me... 495 496 Q: So I think your personal mental health is the number 1 issue so let me help 497 you with that and getting a victim advocate to call you, um, and you can 498 address questions of employment with them. I think they’re better suited to 499 answer those questions than I am. Um, so I - I would ask you to direct 500 questions to them, if they can’t answer ‘em, um, I’ll try to help you as best as I 501 can. I think you have a personal decision to make on what you want to do with 502 your employer. Um, I think you’re - you’re kind of backed into a corner, um, 503 and - and you are gonna - it’s a tough decision, do you want to inform them of 504 what was going on but, um, I will tell you that I think that when they started 505 looking at information for us, um, and I clarified this this morning because I 506 didn’t do some of the work on this but there was either text messages or 507 emails between you and Chris that were on... 508 509 A: They were texts. 510 511 Q: Yeah they were on company related phones, or on companly- company related 512 computers that, um, they were privileged to look at, so they already know 513 about you. Okay? So... 514 515 A: Yeah I just - I don’t know if I’m gonna keep my job, I hope that they don’t 516 fire me for that. I mean technically I’m not an APC employee and he is and it 517 was his phone and not mine so like... 518 519 Q: Well I don’t - I don’t... 520 521 A: ...I think... 522 523 Q: ...I don’t think that’s fire- like I - I don’t think labor law, I’ll just put it that 524 way. I think that you - you know, whatever. I mean people have relationships 525 at work and you guys were smart enough to stop the stuff, I - however you 526 guys did it. Do - is it an unusual circumstance that two people who got 527 together at their place of employment this terrible tragedy happened, yes. Do I 528 think that they are gonna do anything to you? I don’t think so. I mean if you 529 read the paper today you saw they already fired Chris. I mean that... 530 531 A: Oh yeah, well, uh, they should but... 532 533 Q: Right. 534 535 A: ...I’m hopin’ they’re not gonna fire me too. 536 537 Q: Well and I think you need to head that up... 538 539 A: That would suck. 540 541 Q: ...um, I think - if it was me -- and this is just a personal, this is not a 542 professional opinion, it’s a personal opinion because I’m trying to help you as 543 much as I can -- I would - I would reach out to your employer and just say, “I 544 want to come and talk to you.” But maybe talk to these - talk to you EAP 545 peop- people first and let me get you in touch with a victim advocate ‘cause 546 again I think you’re mental health is more important right now than even your 547 employment and I want you to make sure that you’re comfortable and safe in 548 everything that’s happening an then make some, uh, you know, professional 549 decisions and in - in regards to your employment. Okay? 550 551 A: Okay. 552 553 Q: So let me do that... 554 555 A: Yeah and we can - we can... 556 557 Q: Uh... 558 559 A: I - go ahead. 560 561 Q: No I have a couple more questions that don’t relate to anything that we just 562 talked about. Is there anything else that you remembered last night that you 563 want to address? 564 565 A: Yeah a few so, um, I’m not done yet. 566 567 Q: Okay. 568 569 A: Um, and then, um, and then we can talk about that whole thing too ‘cause I 570 was actually gonna see if I could email them today, I was gonna email my like 571 upper upper boss and - and I was actually gonna call her and see and just ask 572 her if she can ha- she’s (Unintelligible), see if she can have a scheduled sit- 573 down with my employer (Unintelligible) and schedule a sit-down with EAP 574 and I want to get in a room with ‘em all at the same time and just give them 575 kind of brief synopsis of what’s going on and just ask them for help and see 576 what they have to say. But... 577 578 Q: Yeah. 579 580 A: ...I was gonna tell you... 581 582 Q: I think that’s a good plan. 583 584 A: ...what I was gonna say to them and just ask your opinion on it ‘cause I don’t 585 want to give them too much. 586 587 Q: You do not need to tell them anything about the investigation or anything 588 about what we discussed. Um, from my standpoint, the investigative pieces 589 that we’ve talked about and, um, specifically things that relate directly to, um, 590 specifically things that relate directly to, um, why something may have 591 happened or timeframes... 592 593 A: Right. 594 595 Q: ...or things like that, they don’t need to know that. I think... 596 597 A: Oh I wasn’t gonna tell them that, I was just... 598 599 Q: Yeah. 600 601 A: ...gonna let them know that I was involved with this case and... 602 603 Q: You were in a relationship with him. 604 605 A: ...that I was... 606 607 Q: Yes. 608 609 A: ...that I’m like a witness to this case and that right now it’s pretty quiet but, 610 you know, in a few weeks given how everything goes it might become kind of 611 a media frenzy and I was just gonna tell them like, you know, I mean I didn’t 612 commit any crimes and I’m not in trouble but I’m... 613 614 Q: Right. 615 616 A: ...working with the prosecutor to try to help to bring some closure to this 617 horrible thing and then just tell them like, you know, I just - I don’t think the 618 media is gonna portray a very nice picture of me and it’s just an unfortunate 619 circumstance and, you know... 620 621 Q: I - I think that your projection of whatever’s gonna happen with the media can 622 be reserved until that time. I don’t think - I know that’s like your biggest fear 623 in this but right now I would not even addr- I wouldn’t address anything that 624 hasn’t happened, I think I would simply tell them, “Look, I - I am involved in 625 this case, I’m a witness,” and - and I, you know, whether or not I think they 626 already know and I’m sure Anadarko is gonna talk with whoever your 627 employer is to make them aware of that, and then, “Hey I had a relationship 628 with this guy,” and that’s all they need to know. They don’t need to know 629 anything else. Um, and - and then - I mean you have to protect your, um, your 630 employment and - and your personal wellbeing. So think of the best way to do 631 that and just minimal information, you don’t have to tell them very much. But 632 I do think you’re, uh, on the right track of getting ahead of it. Uh, but again 633 I’m - I can’t - I’m not an attorney, especially a labor attorney so you - you 634 have to make decisions for yourself on that. But the - some of the people, um, 635 here in the victim advocate realm may be able to give you some better advice, 636 uh, than - than I. 637 638 A: I was hoping to do that today... 639 640 Q: Sure. I will make a phone call... 641 642 A: ...(unintelligible)... 643 644 Q: ...today and, um... 645 646 A: ...just get the ball rolling on this because... 647 648 Q: Yep. 649 650 A: ...I would like to either go to work on Monday or... 651 652 Q: Yep. 653 654 A: ...like figure out what is going on... 655 656 Q: Yeah. 657 658 A: ...just like a fresh week and like try to put my life together... 659 660 Q: Yep. 661 662 A: ...’cause I think it will help. 663 664 Q: Yeah. I think getting back to work and not sitting there and dwelling on this at 665 every moment is gonna be very beneficial to you. So... 666 667 A: Understood. 668 669 Q: ...I - I will reach out to those people who handle that today, if I had a name I’d 670 give it to you, I don’t, um, but I’ll see who’s available. Okay? So... 671 672 A: Okay. Because I want to... 673 674 Q: ...what other...

I've found a new friend this last week and her name is Kecy (pronounced similar to Tracy) She reminds me of my childhood friend Kency.

. Learning techniques.

Ball of evil Sometimes you feel like it's a ball that keeps rolling and rolling and whatever comes in the way of this ball, the ball consumes it and then the ball gets bigger. The person who comes in contact with the ball becomes consumed by this ball and it impacts them and gives them bad energy. This is the ball of evil. The ball only gets bigger and bigger. Portal to evil Every time this ball bumps into anything, a new portal to the evil is opened, a new detail comes out that makes the already existing scenario even more creepy. Pressure cooker This means that something is seething and building inside It keeps seething and building and building pressure in the cooker and then during the climax period the cooker blasts.. Is the cooker at fault or the pressure at fault? Escaping the situation right before the climax period is important. Preventing the climax from happening is also another strategy. It was like a time bomb going to go off at some point. It's called Generation of evil. Climax The climax is reached when the pressure in the cooker keeps reaching the highest point. Evil Drama Always look for signs of evil drama. People who create such evil drama. Which means they lie to you. One source of such evil drama is pretentious behavior and nobody giving you an outlet. When you lead a fake deceptive life, you show to the world that your life is perfect on the outside and on the inside everything is a disaster, you are trying too hard to pretend that your world is perfect, when it's not... in order to impress the world, to feel good about yourself in a crowd, to compare with the Joneses, to keep up, a pretentious life attracts evil, it's a source of confusion and evil, because your whole life is a lie, it cannot work like that, you're opening the portal to evil, to bad things, to chaos, be upfront about your life. Vicious cocktail of factors When there is a confluence of multiple factors they create a vicious cocktail This vicious cocktail then leads to the climax phase or climax period and then the climax is reached in the blast phase. When you see this vicious cocktail, leave the situation and do nothing. Let it unfold on its own and get yourself out of it in some manner without destruction

Ball of evil concept Portal to evil cloud Pressure cooker Climax Evil drama Vicious cocktail of factors

Pacifistic - judaic Romanistic - Paganic Moralistic /Conscientious - Spiritual, Parapsychic, Ethereal.. The last approach prevents the demons. The demons are abuse of power.

Frankly I'm just sick of everything.

Aspects of good talk Soothing voice Articulation and expression .. Engaging . Content should be positive . Substantial. It should be lengthy with more information or more stuff added. Not short. Not necessarily deep but just long. Deep talk is different. . Entertaining. Light hearted. Flippant. Non emotional. Non intense. Non heavy. Addictive.