tsuki

All mental categories are false in the absolute sense? For example: If I say that this particular car is a Mercedes, then this is ultimately false because as I look closely and examine into what a car is, it turns to something intangible, without clearly definable boundaries. A 'car' is just an appearance because I am not looking closely enough? The above paragraph relates to my question about Maya, meaning and understanding. Would you agree with the following sentence: "Everything is relative and that in itself is absolute"?

Can you elaborate on that? Can you establish what do you mean by experience (and perhaps say why is it said that enlightenment is not an experience)?

Does it feel like an empty/cloudy/nebulous mind that knows that it knows, but just can't put it to words? It does to me. It's like - certain paths resonate with me and I like the way they put it, but it just doesn't do justice to this feeling so I try and try and try... It sometimes seems like an endless source of creativity. Can you relate? Your question is a perfect answer to what I was asking about. The fact that what I say is not what you read (and vice versa). How do you reconcile with it in your answers? I was also asking about 'who are you talking to?' and you pointed towards Maya. What is the relationship between meaning, understanding and Maya? It may seem like I'm picking your answers apart, but I bear no malicious intent. Given your previous neo-advaita-ish answers, do you mean that thoughts arise by themselves, or do you not experience the inner voice at all? Is the calmness simply the lack of the mental 'hiccup' when we are presented with something unexpected, or is the mind completely dead? In a sense, I can relate to having no thoughts, but only because of not taking the seriously (learning their nature by observation). I am not identified with thoughts that arise. They are not 'me' and 'me' can never be found.

Do you have the feeling of absurdity when honestly trying to put it to words? Like: having the urge to say it clearly, but it always turns to ash in your mouth when you try your best? Are you aware of the fluidity of meaning when you are answering the questions? Are you trying to meet the person that asks the question at their level, or do you simply 'drop the nukes'?

@winterknight What is your reason to talk about enlightenment after you're enlightened? Who are you talking to?

I wouldn't call it a secret, or ultimate truth, but a very powerful tool of emotional mastery. I think that people should learn to appreciate death and find solace in it. Contemplation on the passing nature of things gets emotionally brutal very quickly, but then it leaves you in the state of equanimity and peace (if you are willing to bear it).

There is no need to hasten the inevitable. Maybe that is the real problem that you are trying to masquerade by blaming your lucidity within the dream world? Your logic works by subjecting the 'dream world' perspective to 'real world' perspective and finding it somehow less real. What would happen if you reversed the roles? What if both of those perspectives merge into one, once you are willing to explore both of them?

Are you behaving in a way that would justify sending you to a mental hospital? Why would merging the dream reality with the waking reality make you behave in such a way? Breaking the dream rules gets you woken up and breaking the real rules gets you killed. Don't do that and you're good.

What I noticed is that once I realize that I am within the dream - I start to do things that are unwelcome, breaking the rules. Like teleporting, or telling people that it is just a dream, or having sex with random people, etc. That very quickly wakes me up / 'ejects' me out of the dream. What I was describing was not unwelcome, I resisted the ejection and wanted to see what would happen. I could have woken up easily. My all experiences with lucid dreams were pleasant/meaningful/refreshing. I think that there is nothing to fear, even if what happens seems unusual. The fear you are experiencing seems like a fear of dissolving a very solid boundary between waking and sleeping consciousness. What do you need this barrier for?

What kind of answer are you looking for? A story that explains your situation? Or a consolation? I had a fair share of lucid dreams in my teenage years, but they stopped occurring in my early twenties. Recently I had two lucid dreams that had collapsed and instead of waking up I fell into a space in between dreams. A mishmash of colors, symbols and sounds with the feeling of my gross body being limp. This happened when I forcibly tried to break the rules of the dream (teleporting).

@now is forever You also get 'quite' and 'quiet' mixed up quiet often...

Then I guess that we're having an 'odd argument'.

Are "we" having a conversation?

@Preetom I don't actually think that it is. I have a hunch that you are judging the dual perspective from within the non-dual. The catch is that there is no duality between duality and non-duality.

I know what you're saying. Things, statements, don't feel intuitive until you can visualize them. But you must be able to see that our visualization is so very limited that it cannot possibly be a test of what is legitimate what is not. For example, can you visualize a 4 dimensional sphere? I sure cant. But can i calculate and hence make statements about its surface areas and its volume? I sure can. Physics is mathematics. Rest are just stories, mnemonics if you will, to aid to or to shorten the mathematical calculations. @Serotoninluv @graded24 As a mechanical engineer, I'd say that science's value lies in its predictive power and I wouldn't be as quick to dismiss the use of imagining interpretations. After all, where does the science's funding come from other than people implementing your ideas? How would the inventors do it if there were no tangible results in the material/classical world? Inventors and investors cannot be expected to learn mathematics of quantum mechanics. From my point of view, asking about the meaning of interactions between particles in a theory is similar to asking about what is the emptiness of a cup. There is nothing about the cup that makes it empty - and yet - it is! That is how the intelligence enters the domain of mathematics: through our intervention that describes something that is not there.

@Serotoninluv There is no duality between duality and non-duality. Even when it comes to language.

Why do you think that? Orange is the one that chases after the gross definition of wealth.

It is. Arguing about perspectives in terms of logical reasoning is ultimately pointless because in order to do so, you have 'put' one perspective 'inside' another. This creates paradoxes like you just pointed out and the logical mind gets stuck at the absurdity of the situation. What you have to do instead is to inhabit your opponent's perspective and from its inside show its obfuscated paradoxes (without relying on the perspective you're arguing for). Only then, after a person is open (and mindfucked) enough - you get to show them where you are coming from and how this perspective 'cures'/incorporates the paradoxes you just pointed out in their reasoning. Practically, in order to do that - you have to be higher on the spiral.

One way is to find your way back to the light and the other is to wait until your pupils adjust to the darkness.

Thinking about ultimate rules for life is ultimately misguided. Reality is non-linear. Today's solutions are tomorrow's problems if we stick to them mindlessly. This is what all rules boil down to: the mind finds thinking exhausting, so it tries to solve itself by inventing guidelines.

Does this sentence come from a place of love, or does it come from the place of hate? If it is the latter, then it is the predator biting itself. I think that it does a great job keeping itself stuck in the corner.

I recently came to understand the saying that we can only love others as much as we can love ourselves. The only normal people are those that we're yet to get close to - and there is no person closer to me than... I. I know my ever single little fuck-up, every single thought and emotion. I know my all evils and can I really love that? Well, guess what - the more you get closer to another person, the more you learn about them as well. The more open they become and talk about their inner lives, the more darkness you have to stomach. Is love a projection? In a sense - yes. It is a projection of our relationship to our inner darkness. Without the ability to stay alone, there can be no bond. However, once you let yourself be alone - is there a reason to look for love? Perhaps, this is why it is said that love is not a matter of reason.

@now is forever Your predator's job is to keep dangers at bay. If, however, you call this predator dangerous - it will fight itself so that it will not harm others. To be harmless towards others, you have to be ruthless towards yourself. Cynicism was once a form of strength, but today it is nothing else but whining. I'd much rather listen to whining of others than to whine about it.

“Only time can heal what reason cannot.” ― Seneca

@now is forever Trinity is a three-legged stool. Remove a leg and it becomes a useless teapot.