LastThursday

Agreed. It's like turning 40 and denying that you were ever 39. I think what causes division in arguments about SD, is precisely because SD has clear demarcations between stages. I would say that's one of the model's faults. Having a traffic light system is easy on the mind, but it sows division! Draw a line in the sand and people will start arguing about which side is "best". If I were to update SD myself, I would remove the colours and replace them with traits. Things like: defers to authority on principle, or believes in material possession as good and so on. People would then have a mix of traits. Some traits would then be deemed as "higher" or "more advanced"; something like: believes individual change is not possible without affecting the whole. However, that would simply be another model with its own different divisions of reality.

SD is still an extremely useful model of the different paradigms people live by. And, it applies to both individuals and groups. What seems to get quickly forgotten is that each stage incorporates the stages "below" it like Russian dolls. You can't be Yellow unless you've been through Orange and Blue etc. If an individual inhabits different stages even in one day, then that simply shows their level of development - it's not that SD is wrong or outdated. But. The sheer fact that there is more than one model shows that SD is incomplete, it's a simplification of human behaviour.

@MoreiraI feel your pain. I take a rational approach and that is to ask myself: "Can I personally do anything about this injustice I'm witnessing?" I then ask myself: "Am I prepared to do something about the injustice I'm witnessing?" If the answer is "no" in either case, then I simply drop it - no guilt, no rumination - just move on. It takes practice, it's hard, but it can be done. if "yes" then act immediately and with conviction - otherwise you may as well be saying "no". Sometimes it's impossible to do something to help or fix an injustice. You just don't have the resources, level of consciousness or ability to do something about it. There's no shame in that. Having the strong emotions shows that you have love to give - acknowledge that - and give love when you can.

@beastcookie for a slightly different take on your question: you are already dead - welcome to the afterlife. I say this because life and death are a duality. In it's non-dual form they are the same thing. Any explanation of death is always made in the living world. Thoughts and words about what comes after death, are just that, thoughts and words. Anyway, don't take my word on it. Try this mystic for size:

There's a kind of synergy between the two paradigms. Parts of the models are about survival. Survival being the continuance of the physical body. Survival can be progressively automated by putting in place people to help you survive and strategies that protect you. Some examples are shelter, food, families, employment and so on. This then frees up your time to be able to do non-survival related activities. The models ascribe survival to lower tiers. But really survival is never guaranteed and has to be maintained, and so is ever present. The other parts of the models are effectively about consciousness or spirituality if you will. Consciousness has the property of potentially infinite depth. The depth of consciousness is a kind of crystallisation, where step by step you are able to discern a greater range of "states" of consciousness. This happens naturally, but can also be forced by meditation, drugs, novel experiences etc. There's a kind of ratchet effect where once you've levelled up, access to the new states becomes easier in future. It's worth noting states come and go, but it's the range of different states that matters. Some states are more useful than others for accessing Truth or God or tapping into universal intelligence or whatever - that's what "higher" means. As a comparison think about your consciousness as a six year old and your consciousness now. How differently do you perceive things? And just as it's possible to talk to a six year old as an adult, there's no problem in maintaining a "higher" level of consciousness permanently - you are just in a different "state" from the majority of people. So once survival is automated, you have time on your hands to deepen consciousness. That's what the models say in my opinion.

Get drunk, why not? To qualify that statement, getting drunk serves a purpose, it has utility. I can't say exactly what it was in your case, but I'm guessing it was some sort of social bonding. Keeping up social ties is important for survival - of course there are other way to that too. The other utility of getting drunk in your case was regression. Regression is useful as a form of contrast. By contrast I mean a way to compare two things easily. You say you felt terrible after getting drunk. But it certainly gave you a good way to compare your current level of development with how you used to be. And you have come to the conclusion that you dislike how you used to be. Good. That should have strengthened your view of yourself as you are now - not diminished it. We all regress from time to time, it's no bad thing, it helps us to reinforce what we don't want in our lives. Just be super vigilant and don't let it become a habit - otherwise you really will have regressed.

Make sure the paracetamol doesn't contain caffeine, read the packet carefully before taking. I've been caught out by that one more than once! Also as mentioned avoid screens before sleep. I would go further and say avoid ALL blue light TWO HOURS before sleep. Unfortunately most light sources are very bright and contain a lot of blue light nowadays. The only realistic solution is to wear blue blocking glasses (i.e. they have orange or red coloured lenses). They should be wraparound to stop light getting in the sides. Ridiculous I know. And as mentioned, getting sunlight (even on a cloudy day) as soon as possible after waking will reset your circadian rhythm. Effectively to get enough light you will need to go outdoors for a minimum of 30 minutes. Use those 30 minutes as part of your exercise regime and maybe even time to meditate. You have specific receptors in your eyes for blue light, which connect directly to sites in your brain that control your hormones and circadian rhythm. Doing just those two things will improve the quality of your sleep no end. It can even help with weight control as disrupting your circadian rhythms can speed up fat deposition.

@JayG84 To paraphrase your excellent observations: We see a beautiful old building in a state of collapse. We decide to build a huge scaffolding to enshroud the building that then collapses and no longer exists. What persists is just the scaffolding. We can also try to erect a huge complex scaffolding in the hope that a building will appear in it someday. And when it does we say "Look! I did this! My scaffolding was just right.". And in time when the building disappears again we are again just left with scaffolding. In my view to awaken is to give up on dreary old scaffolding and to always experience it for what it is, even if it's only fleeting and ephemeral.

Weird, but I'll roll with it... Firstly, until I decided to re-model the living room by knocking through the wall, the golf ball and raisin did not exist. Whoa? Let's call the "stuff" of consciousness something like: appearances. It's very important to understand that appearances are precisely that. An appearance is a sudden discontinuous manifestation in your consciousness. For example you look through your telescope and suddenly a small red blob makes an appearance. The next most important thing is that appearances are transient: they dis-appear just as discontinuously as they appeared in the first place. Your annoying sister digs you in the ribs and you lose the damn red blob through the telescope. So is there anything which isn't discontinuous in consciousness? Is it all appearances? Yes it's all appearances, everything, the whole lot. We can all agree that appearances are something. They are hard to deny. Whilst you are experiencing an appearance, it exists. Appearances also morph and meld into each other - it's basically chaos. However, in that sense, appearances don't exist because they are never static. Existence implies some static quality that lasts for some time period. So... In order to have a sense that anything exists continuously we have to simplify reality. This happens in several ways. We notice that there are "patterns" in the appearances. These are repetitions in the spatial and temporal arrangements of appearances. But it's worth noting that no two appearances are ever identical - so already this is a huge simplification. The patterns are not real, they only exists as appearances themselves. Secondly we notice the same patterns recur over time. So already we've gone one level up the hierarchy, there are patterns to the patterns! We might call these patterns: "golf ball" or "raisin" or just plain old objects. We also notice these objects obey certain "laws" of motion and change which are just more patterns. On up the pattern hierarchy we go. Eventually we come to the conclusion that some patterns (objects) persist over time. Note how incredibly weird this is: we have a maelstrom of unique appearances in consciousness, and yet we agree that the golf ball exists and not only that it persists over time. And even weirder than that, even though I have just clapped eyes on the (appearance of the) golf ball as I knock through my wall - I make up a story about it having existed throughout time inside my wall! Existence, is pure faith.

@Nak Khid ha! My point entirely. Then my belief is even more important. I would still get a conk on the head, that enough exists. But what was it that hit me? My story creating belief factory kicks into overdrive. "Probably a Golf Ball, due to it's weight and it's dimpled texture between my fingers". When you lack information about something, you fill in the gaps with pure faith. You literally make the "golf ball" exist. You then contemplate during sleep zzzz... Upon waking you find out it wasn't a "golf ball" at all but a giant gobstopper and poof! The "golf ball" stopped existing.

@Nak Khid that would definitely constitute existence. My belief in the rock would be 100%. Unless of course it kills me - but that's a different story.

@Nak Khid I Want To Believe. Belief doesn't bring something into existence, but belief is necessary to keep something existing.

How do we know anything exists? How do we know we are not being hoodwinked or gaslighted or are delusional? The simple answer is faith. A thing exists if we believe it does; and when we stop believing it stops existing. Mars definitely exists - well it does for me anyway.

When I browse the different threads here, it kind of makes me sad how there's such an underappreciation for how astounding and beautiful people are. The skills that people show and the beauty they create in the world often blow my mind. I'm a visual and auditory kind of guy. When I listen to great music or look at stunning art or craft, I feel a certain kind of excited love and gratitude (for being alive), which I wish I could feel more often and share with other people. Anyway, enough gushing. Here are two tokens of what I'm talking about. The sheer atistry, patience, tradition and dedication astounds me: The sweet tones of a human song bird, and history of two other geniuses woven together (Michael Jackson and Stevie Wonder):

I will definitely check that out. Thanks! I was using beauty as just one example of a transcedent experience - so more of a proxy than focussing on beauty itself. Beauty is relative to the observer of course. Some other types of transcedent experience might be: Awe - experience the magnitude of the Grand Canyon. Sex - intense emotional arousal with a new partner Fear - the thrill of a bungee jump Gratitude - a person risks their own life for you Meditation - sitting by a river and experiencing oneness with nature Knowledge/Novelty - being shown a new way to do something So you can see that all these transcedent experiences have one thread linking them all: love. They induce love and a stronger connection (to God?). But I was also going one step further and saying that people can also induce those experiences in you. It may be sponteneous or on purpose or it may not have even happened yet. But when it does happen you will also love the person who gives you that experience. The conclusion is that you should love everyone, because anyone is capable of introducing you to a transcedent experience. Coming from a position of love in all your interactions is very different from the norm (on this forum) I would say.

I appreciate your all comments. It's not so much the artistic products I was interested in, as you say there are other threads for that. It's tricky for me to articulate what I was trying to say. There's a lot of judgement and criticism on the forum and a lot of "trying to fix" other people by providing opinions. I wanted to point out that there is a way to counterbalance the negativity when interacting with people. This also applies to people in everyday life. I was using beauty as an example of an experience that viscerally connects oneself to the world - a transcendant experience. Some of my personal preferences I posted above. I think we often lead our lives in a way that is emotionally disconected from reality - and this comes off in the way we deal with people. One way to re-connect is through beauty (it's not the only way though). When someone produces a thing of beauty such as a song or a kimono - our immediate response is one of love. We love the beautiful art, but by extension we also love the person or people that created it. By love I mean admiration or appreciation or respect or such like. But I also mean a visceral emotional reaction that connects you with the art and the person. It's hard to hate a person who produces beautiful things. But should we love a person before they've created a work of art? Yes most definitely. Because every person has the potential to produce beauty in the world. Every person has the potential to induce in us a transcendant experience and reconnect us to the world and each other. It's hard to hate that potential. It also helps us recognise that we too have that same potential and we should love ourselves for that - no matter how "broken" we feel we are.

That's not true. You have a passion for changing your life for the better. You are working on yourself - that's very worthy.

I guess you're looking for an answer from an enlightened person or at least an enlightened answer. I can only offer a list of my (stage Orange) opinions and ideas that I just made up on the spot: Take the bigger picture. Is the business successful? If yes, then what the directors are doing works. Leave them to it. Tell your employers that you think there is something wrong with their tactics. If you're valued, then offer to quit unless they do something about it - call their bluff. Suggest to them that they could make more money and be more succesful if they didn't piss off their organisers. Give them examples where they've gone wrong or in the least that they talk directly to some of their aggrieved organisers about their relationship. Show them exactly how they could save money, waste less time, be more effecient etc. Or just the stoic appropach and carry on being as mindful and open as possible, keep caring for and loving both your employers. Trust that the situation will evolve over time, they will evolve and you will also evolve over time - and trust yourself that you'll reach the point where you know exactly what to do. Feel free to tell me to go away or ignore the above if it's not useful. Respect.

Is there anything you want from the situation? Is it less stress? Stability? To fix broken people? To show stoicism? Be a parent to your employers? Anything else? What do you think?

You are living in a timeless void. The future is always now. Everything is now. Why bother...? Why not?

Firstly, realise that if you are living in someone else's space you have to live by their rules. Normally I would say that talking is the best course of action, but that's not going to work. Dealing with any person that thinks they're in a position of superiority is not easy. The following are some devious low consciousness tactics you can use, your mileage may vary: Non-compliance. Don't answer his yells (or any other family member) or react in any way. Only if he talks to you face to face in a normal voice do you answer. If you feel "forced" in any way to do things you don't want to: don't do it. Stand your ground and politely say "no". Walk off or leave the house if necessary. Always stay calm and composed at all times. Don't react angrily or sheepishly. Don't raise your voice. Don't ever get physical. Come and go as you wish. Don't ever ask permission if you can do something or go somewhere. Be prepared to take the consequences of non-compliance, plan ahead if you are likely to be kicked out of home. Lastly, love you father to death and make it clear that you love him. Think good thoughts about him as much as possible. Do nice things for him to reward any good behaviour from him - but do them because you want to - never be fake in your love. Be strong. Good luck.

@Emotionalmosquito if I was in your position I would ask myself the following blunt questions: Am I debating for sport, fun, to get a kick out of it? Am I addicted to the drama of the situation? Am I being triggered by people not listening to me? Am I being triggered by someone more intelligent than me (are they playing with me for their amusement)? Am I being triggered by someone I think is more attractive than me (and you feel inferior in some way)? Am I being triggered by people not showing me love? Have I outgrown the group I thought I belonged to? And so on.

To go a bit meta: "pointless" is a value judgement ultimately to do with your personal survival. To put it a different way, to say something is "pointless" is to say you can't afford to waste resources on something that could be better spent elsewhere. But the thing is, is that spiritual growth/understanding has nothing to do with survival, the two are orthogonal.

You make a good point. This is a good way to keep yourself humble. Your future self should always be wiser, cleverer, smarter, more aware and more successful than you are now. Your present self should make that happen. If you're not embarrassed by the old you, then you're doing something wrong.

@Aquarius excellent post. It feels uncomfortable to be lost and not know what you want. It sounds like you have lots of great ideas. You have to keep trying new things until you find what you want to do and how you want to live - forget about pleasing other people or trying to fit in with their needs - put yourself first. If you want to be successful you have to have a good balance of three things: 1. Good ideas. 2. Stamina and perserverance. 3. Good people skills. All these things are just skills you can improve over time if you put focus into it. If you want to practise stamina and perseverence, then these will help you: 1. Have a daily routine (even on weekends) 2. Have one or two long term projects with achievable goals 3. Emotional control. Emotional control is important. There will be times when you feel like giving up, or you feel very distracted, or you want to waste time. You will need good coping strategies for this. I find meditation, exercise (gym, walking, running, swimming etc), being outdoors in nature and good diet help a lot. Also depending on the type of person you are a certain amount of social contact is necessary - also this is good for people skills.