RendHeaven

Good one

My read on this is that Owen has just seen too many gym bros and physique chasers get destroyed in field and turn up empty-handed. This gives him fuel to "prove" the irrelevance of appearance next to frame. Likewise, he's seen too many psychonauts go maniac with nothing concrete to show for it, hence he poo-poos on psychedelics. Owen has this self-aggrandizing need to prove that raw frame outperforms all other crutches and tools, and he's willing to nerf himself in all other domains just to showcase frame dominance.

@LordFall I've clarified this issue to Schizophonia already. The problem is not about suffering. The problem is about the full-time commitment you're signing up for if you care about raising healthy and sovereign kids. Sovereignty will be a luxury. As already mentioned, most people will continue to pop kids and the human race will go on. I just have high standards for myself. IDGAF about "bloodline," that is completely arbitrary and narcissistic.

Allowing people's contradictions to breathe without changing them has always been one of my top challenges I'm much better about it nowadays but it does still cause me to squirm internally when someone is blatantly hypocritical or blind to what's in front of their eyes and I choose to bite my tongue. Ultimately, their contradiction is my own contradiction. If I truly held room for all wrongness to flourish in all of its ugliness, I would be at peace

@Schizophonia suffering is not the issue. the issue is the extent to which your kids get warped and bent without your willing consent. What's coming is unlike anything we've ever seen in history. Since the dawn of humanity until now, parental guardians + the culture of local communities were the primary influence on children. In the age of AI, for the first time ever, your influence will be secondary. Algorithms will RULE them, unless you literally ban devices (but don't expect that to end well if they have IRL friends). Do not overlook this.

@SchizophoniaI support that for you since you seem sincere. Just make sure to put extra thought and time into the curated environment that you will be holding for your kids. You have the right attitude, but you're severely underestimating the reality-warping power of AI. You really can't fathom how much the world is about to change, and how much the digital world will bleed into and override day to day life. Don't conflate caution with paranoia. I have no fear in me at all. I am looking the beast of fatherhood straight in the eye and rationally concluding that it's not worth it for me personally to go slay it given the terrain. Others will come to their own personalized conclusions. As for me, I have other monsters I'd rather slay, such as my own personal goals and societal impact. If you think you can do all of the above, then you are a herculean specimen indeed.

It's not a matter of acute suffering might happen to your kids like kinetic warfare or disease the looming threat is that your kids will be domesticated into psychological dependency frameworks and lifelong identities in covert ways that neither you nor they will have any awareness of. This is not something you can fight. You and I are already being molded right now insofar as we are merely communicating through a screen. The reason we get away with it is because we were not drowning in this technology at age 2.

@Schizophonia The world we're headed for is not very daughter-friendly. I'm particularly concerned about the rapid evolution of social media and AI integration into culture. We haven't seen anything yet - and we take for granted that we've witnessed a pre-iphone lifestyle. Parenting a healthy daughter (or son) in 2030+ will be an all-out war over her mind. You will have to shield her from the manipulations of modern technology 24/7 as if her life depends on it, without making her feel oppressed or mistrusted. Raising her to have a healthy relationship to her phone (or AI companion glasses or whatever) will be a non-trivial task and a full-time commitment. It will NOT be sufficient to be a classic "good father" with "present energy" while you still try to go out and earn money on your own time. You have no idea the parasitic tendrils her personal device will implant in her while you're not on guard. If you restrict her, she will rebel and find a way around your embargo. If you lecture her, she will grow afraid and crippled. If you isolate her, she will hate you. If you're completely hands-off or leave her to her own devices, she will be molded into a frivolous, hollow addict. If you nail everything right and guide her gracefully through the onslaught of technologic parasites, she will still be alone amongst her peers in her preserved humanity. It will be nearly impossible for her to find genuine friends her age outside of the digital matrix (unless you go out of your way to network with like-minded parents before even bringing her into this world) This is already our present situation in 2025, PRIOR to the oncoming AI hyperreality vortex which will make the internet with all of its dopamine traps indistinguishable from 3D life (coming VERY fast). Parenting healthy kids will never get easier. The difficulty and commitment curve is about to spike indefinitely. I'm not saying it's totally hopeless - just that you have to be very sober about assessing what you're signing up for. Of course, some people will still continue to pop kids (albeit at a declining rate). But the masses are not concerned about the health or sovereignty of their children, so we should not model our behavior after them. A lot of my intelligent spiritual friends today still have vague naive fantasies of "having kids one day," but respectfully, they have no idea the monsters they're up against. If they have kids at this rate, those kids will be swallowed by the system, like all other kids, as they will most likely fail to bulletproof their walled garden. By "bulletproofing your walled garden," I mean: finding an attractive partner with significant values-alignment and longevity vows (good luck lol) having the sexual confidence and experience to keep or replace that partner having enough money to retire on the spot if you must (constantly working will be incompatible with raising sovereign kids in the age of AI) moving to a strategic country/city or town that min-maxes good inputs and bad inputs having a strong LOCAL community/network of like-minded parents in that strategic location both partners must purge 99% of their neuroses, traumas, shadows, control impulses, etc. You want to build the exterior shell of the walled garden with grueling, uncompromising containment - but you want to be completely hands-off for the play and learning and growth that happens within the garden be prepared to homeschool or hire designated tutors know that this garden is training wheels and will not last be emotionally prepared to lose your kids despite your best efforts. You are burning a LOT of time, energy, and material resources for a temporary container which may or may not work. There's probably so much more that I'm forgetting. This is just a quick list. After many months of brutal contemplation, I've come to peace with never having any kids. In some sense you could accuse me of fleeing in the face of a difficult challenge (which I won't deny), but you have to do a personalized cost-benefit analysis. Or, you could accuse me of overthinking (i.e. "it's not that big of a deal bro"), but if that's your argument, you're simply wrong and your kids born in 2030+ will be utterly fucked and enslaved by ChatGPT-69omni If I'm going to be a father, I refuse to half-ass it. For me to be a father, so many prerequisites would have to be in place to maximize the odds of not unwittingly messing up my kids and feeding them to the system like sacrificial fodder. For the foreseeable future, I've got my hands full with building a raft big enough for myself. I myself am not totally immune to the hypnotic vortex of hyperreality - what chance does my vulnerable tiny daughter have? This dilemma is unique to 2025+. I would not have had these concerns back in the 2010s.

@Miguel1 If I ever had a daughter (I won't, but fun hypothetical), as far as her dating life goes - I would root for her to experience serial monogamy with players-types who have empathy. This avoids the trap of falling in love with a psychopath as well as the dry pussy trap as well as the lie of "no other partner exists for me." Through serial monogamy (rather than having rosters or being part of a roster), she has more bargaining power and sense of specialness (a necessary illusion for the flourishing of her feminine gifts). She will pull this off effortlessly because she will grow up hot (genetics + whole foods diet without fucking canola oil and corn syrup) + she will mirror her mother. It will never occur to her to change herself for men, because from her POV, dreamy guys will spontaneously pop into her life and she will think she "manifested it" accidentally (without realizing that I stacked all the chips in her favor lol)

Love between father and daughter is pure survival, don't kid yourself. And the urge to deny this is exactly that survival in action. "No, but you don't understand, because you don't have a daughter! This love is different!" Yes, that's exactly your survival speaking. There's nothing a human can show you that you will not have already seen in God

Correct

wow you're actually the goat I'll answer here to not derail the other thread: Yes, the perception of sexual purity in Japan is still massively valued, as is the case in all traditional patriarchy structures. Women still fight to appear like utterly innocent virigns, if not outright asexual; and men demand that women be "pure" and "untainted." But the crazy thing about living in the densest, most overstimulating, high-turnover metro city in the world in the age of social media and digitized everything (+the whole country is psychospiritually sexually repressed), is that women are able to project outward perceptions of sexual purity while getting DICKED in private with no evidence trail and absolute plausible deniability. Furthermore, the most killer players are all aware of this dynamic, and decisively lead girls towards isolated, low stakes encounters without drawing any attention (calm, stoic, still, detached). It's a fascinating, well-oiled machine of people in the know getting all their needs met in secrecy; people not in the know being hopelessly lonely, touch-starved, and rejected; and the whole of society is in denial while upholding the appearance of 'tradition' and acting like nothing is wrong. This is unique to Tokyo due to the architecture of a cyberpunk steel jungle and an Instagram-first culture. As mentioned before, if you step outside of Tokyo into the countryside (smaller towns and villages), you are expected to court a woman the old fashioned way by cozying up to her family and playing a slow, loyal, responsible long game (for better or for worse).

@Eskilon Yes this is a viral video for good reason. It's somewhat exaggerated in that he deliberately cherrypicks the most controversial takes with the cutest girls he can find, which leads to a skewed view of the terrain (you're not hearing every opinion fairly) Even so, there is a truth there in that Tokyo at large is abnormally low-commitment when it comes to sex. The rules and expectations around sex literally warp and distort the second you step foot in Tokyo. What's difficult for us westerners to grasp is the compartmentalization of sex in japan. In the west, sex = intimacy = love = romance. Which is why cheating is the deepest betrayal. But in japan, sex is its own domain of lust and fun and biological needs; and intimacy, love, and romance is its own sphere of sacredness distinct from sex. This fragmentation is arguably neurotic and dysfunctional, but it is what it is and any moral judgement we may have against the Japanese is spiritual ego. All the hot people are fucking each other behind closed doors, without regard to girlfriend/boyfriend/marital status. If you know, you know, and you can't get mad because you know this is just the way it is. If you don't know, you would probably get mad, but that's precisely why you don't know.

Happy birthday bro

@Schizophonia hell no! depends. If you're in Tokyo looking for a forever girl, you're fucked. the lack of commitment is vegas-tier (if not even worse lol) if you're in the countryside, you have better odds because monogamous tradition is still strongly culturally reinforced. But you would have to win over her traditional conservative family, so good luck with that. @Leo Gura Yes, it is a beautiful monolithic self deception I am lucky to be half japanese, fluent in japanese, and raised by a japanese mother who drilled cultural awareness into me (for better or for worse). This gives me the appeal of a foreigner with very few downsides from the POV of a japanese girl. All that cultural awareness surprisingly pulls enormous weight in dealing with women. I'm able to "read the room" and follow the unspoken script without looking like a clueless outsider who's crashing head-first into social faux pas. That being said, I've had to go to great lengths to unwire the assumptions my mom baked into me. Constantly tip toeing around how you're being perceived (this is the japanese ethos) is not healthy. There are upsides to this. Like the spotless infrastructure, the cleanliness, the golden customer service, etc. Furthermore, selfishly, I love that the girls aesthetically converge towards cutsie elegance. They have the same hair, the same makeup, the same slim frame, the same high pitched voice. If you're looking for sexual anarchy then you will hate it. But if you know what you like, then this is heaven. Yep my fully-white cousin did that. He's getting married to her later this month. Good for him. There is a common myth that Japanese women like white men. This is overwhelmingly false. I'm not sure where it comes from, probably a combination of post-WW2 american soldier takeover + anime nerd fantasy + conflation with poor developing SE Asian countries. In fact, Japan's conformity and cultural idiosyncrasy is so pervasive that it fucks with prevailing game principles in the west. Most white guys here are royally fucked because they're operating on vegas/RSD paradigms that backfire here. For example, in America, if you were to do a cold approach on a woman, you would want to be friendly, outgoing, smiling, inviting, and a little cocky/funny or push/pull for emotional play. This will crash and burn in Japan (specifically Tokyo). 2 reasons: too much extroversion is actually perceived as threatening to social cohesion. The perfect encapsulation of this is how in Tokyo, you can be densely packed into a subway and everybody is dead silent and ignoring each other. this is homeostasis. this is safe. Keeping to yourself and not being a 'bother' (i.e. muting yourself, not standing out) is the expectation and norm. Breaking this expectation in a heroic gamble to stand out does NOT win you any favors. Being "unstifled" is actually seen as annoying and uncalibrated, and especially if a white guy were to project his voice, no matter how warm or friendly or charming, this is seen as threatening the cohesion, drawing too much attention, and girls will physically run away to prioritize their sense of comfort. you're seen as a lion, and the sheep will melt into the center of the pack to get away from you. there is a recruiter/scout/host culture in Tokyo, which means pretty girls get approached constantly whenever they are out (people trying to lure them into the entertainment industry, promising wealth and fame in exchange for their beauty. obviously a trap, and the smart girls know this.) which is why they immediately assume you're a threat if you approach them - ESPECIALLY if you're warm or smiling! all warmth raises suspicion in Japan. it's seen as a salesy gimmick to extract value. this is hard to fathom if you've lived in America your whole life. Furthermore, all push-pulls or negs are perceived as threatening and will cause her to run away. Especially if you are a large, loud white guy who doesn't even speak japanese who tries to push pull her. (you have no idea how socially threatening you are) This leads to a mega counter-intuitive cold approach metagame, where being low energy, stoic, soft spoken, and NOT smiling, and even borderline cold has the highest chances of her hooking. Imagine that! The game here is: don't startle the cat. don't make loud sounds, don't make sudden movements, don't reach out to pet it, basically do nothing. Be so unthreatening that the cat gets naturally curious and curls into your lap for belly rubs. ...and that all assumes you speak fluent japanese, of course! if you're english-only, then expect to be very lonely in japan (not just with women, but in general) I've had to completely burn my old models of attraction and game, and rework my understanding from scratch. It is NOT the case that women are universally into warm, extroverted, bold energy. This is a product of culture. To get a truly universal understanding of what women respond to, your model would have to account for both America and Japan at once. Briefly check out this timestamp. This shit owen is doing would get you laughed out of the room in Japan. You would be perceived as so unbearably annoying and threatening that girls will physically flee from you (I learned this the hard way). And then you would watch as a skinny, smooth, soft spoken feminine guy takes your girl from right under your nose by barely saying a word. Brutal. This is hard to wrap your mind around if you're used to Vegas nightclubs. What owen is teaching here is deeply contextual and applies only to western socialization scripts. The true universals that women respond to: leadership (directional authority) outcome independence (not giving a FUCKKK) implicit uninhibited desire transfer preselection

lfg bro

Living in Japan has completely changed my relationship to muscle, aesthetics, and gym goals. Growing up in America as a skinny kid, I always felt inadequate and lesser, and like most men, I got into the gym to pack on more muscle to hopefully one day be enough. My starting stats were 5'10 145lbs (178cm 66kg), and until recently, my idealized goal weight was 170lbs (77kg). (+25lbs pure muscle). That's not an unreasonable natty goal. Very doable... if I were willing to sacrifice a large chunk of my life to the gym and have borderline neurotic discipline lol (extreme hard gainer) Over the years I managed to put on +20lbs by hitting the gym daily and eating a massive caloric surplus (lots of beef and rice!) but eventually I hit a plateau around 165lbs (75kg). Though I gained a lot of muscle and really started to fill out my frame, I also gained a bit of fat around my waist (this is expected on any bulk). Furthermore, that last 5lbs push to 170 is beyond the curve of diminishing returns. To get that last 5lbs I would have to hit the gym like a psychopath and eat like a drill sergeant is screaming down my back. So I was already beginning to doubt to what extent 170 would be worth it. But the punchline to all of this is, I arrived in Japan still chasing this mental ideal benchmark of 170lbs, only to realize that the average man my age here is fucking 135lbs (61kg) lmao. At 160lbs+, I am a TITAN here. I'm taller and wider than 95%+ of native Japanese guys I encounter here, even on the streets of major cities. Visually, it's a total mog. But let me tell you, nothing will sober you up to the folly of your gym goals (and the idiocy of chasing western 'chad' ideals) like doing a cold approach in japan, getting brutally blown out despite your above-average body, and then later watching a 60kg lanky twink pretty boy walking a japanese bombshell into a hotel while she giggle and blushes, and you're standing there side eyeing them from afar with your jaw on the floor but hey at least you have your big muscles and your right hand. The real mindfuck was when I began noticing my urge to SLIM DOWN. Yes, for the first time in my life I began feeling TOO BIG, and I started thinking "If I cut down to 155lbs, THAT would be my final form!" But I quickly realized that this is still the same trap, just in the other direction. In America I wanted 170lbs, in Japan I wanted 155lbs, but in both cases I'm just trying to win validation/affection/admiration/social goodie points, etc. And that's when the whole thing came full circle and imploded. I realized this shit is dumb. I'm being dumb. I now go to the gym truly for myself. I go because I ACTUALLY want to go TODAY (and not for some fantasy of a better future). I go because I like the innate reward of fucking doing something with your body (rather than lounging around + atrophy) Same with food. I don't track calories anymore because I don't really have a goal in either direction (I genuinely don't want to get bigger or smaller anymore). I eat my beef and rice until I'm full, and then I stop. At the moment I find myself naturally hovering around 163lbs (74kg) without trying to be any particular weight. Coincidentally, half way between 170lbs (american "ideal") and 155lbs (japanese "ideal"). I'm also slowly recomping. I notice myself losing fat around my waist without scale weight flux. This comes from a combination of intuitive eating + daily gym + long walks, all done for their own sake. I urge you all to double check whether your body goals are actually your own authentic original desire or not

At the moment, not at all. Every other metric is spotless and and my lived experience somehow only gets better and better each passing day. The notion that I "risk getting heart disease down the line" has the same emotional weight as saying I "risk breaking a bone" while going climbing (technically true, but I'm still going to climb! And if I do break a bone, I'm willing to eat shit and course-correct) I am still young, turning 26 this year. So I am aware that the real stress-test is yet to come. Fundamentally I have come to deep acceptance that I am a living personal experiment. I'm genuinely ok with dying earlier, if it means my time here was more enriching. But also, I don't actually expect to die earlier! That's just a contingency scenario, lol I acknowledge this

I am a lifelong musician and music appreciator as well. Music is one of the few things that make me consistently cry. But that's precisely why I leave it out of my trips. For me, there's a lot of identity/comfort/familiarity/attachment involved with music. Not that that's a bad thing, but that I have the specific goal of transcendence and sovereignty while tripping

https://chatgpt.com/share/683ca340-3b44-800f-926c-271d3668fac5 had to push your GPT just a little bit

Nice. Appreciate you playing along! Funny enough, there's yet another wrinkle that Jason would add, which is that store bought ghee is usually oxidized (not many people know this), so unless you're making your own ghee from scratch, he would say to also avoid that and just use coconut oil. Yep, Jason also somehow keeps his LDL under 100 despite not even trying to (given that he's a LDL denier lmao) For me, I haven't had bloodwork done in 2 years now, but last I checked I was at 150 mg/dl LDL-C and 1:1 Tris to HDL both sitting at 60 mg/dl. That test didn't come with ApoB though. I'll get a more comprehensive test done later this year

We generally listen to music to be soothed, comforted, or pleased - i.e. feeling good. Even deeper, it becomes an anchor of sorts and keeps you tethered to the familiar I'm not interested in that when peeling back the layers of consciousness. I want to step into spaces where I usually dare not go. besides, there are plenty of ways to feel good without drugs (and plenty of drugs exclusively for feeling good, if you're into that lol) when it comes to psychedelics, we're here for direct confrontation. Of course, that doesn't preclude music - but if you're doing it right, then the music becomes secondary and auxiliary anyway. the same logic applies for trip sitters. they become an umbilical chord and you never discover real freedom and independence: https://www.actualized.org/insights/no-trip-sitters

Complete silence (literally use ear plugs) Always alone. Usually in my room, though lately I've been more adventurous and out in nature

@aurum Good shit. The GPT is being as PC and nonpartisan as possible but already casts doubt on seed oils and admits to oxidized lipoprotein theory and literally tells you that ghee and coconut oil are more ideal than seed oils. None of this is "new info" per se, but you could say the overton window is shifting. Just a few years ago, the consensus was that canola oil is "probably safer" than something like butter ghee or tallow due to saturated fat concerns. Jason's ONLY claim here is to avoid pro oxidants, boost antioxidants, and prioritize saturated fat over polyunsaturated fat. By logical necessity, the action steps that follow are to eat beef and avoid seed oils (which are polyunsaturated by nature + often preoxidized through excessive heating). run these 4 steps through your GPT discussion and it should overwhelmingly agree, though it might take issue with the absolutist tone and argue that not all PUFAs are bad (true - a minimum intake of dietary omega3 DHA and omega6 AA is critical) I necroposted because the GPT now directly bolsters Jason's claims in this thread, to which you and michael were demanding evidence for 1 year ago. What's different is that if you asked these questions to chatGPT in 2024, it would have told you to be wary of saturated fat