Leo Gura

Again, you're looking at everything through a single narrow lens: If it doesn't make you enlightened, it's pointless. But everything is pointless. Including enlightenment. So what? Not everything I talk about is mono-maniacally focused on enlightenment. I'm also interested in living life, as you say.

@Snick Enlightenment is quite easy to quantify. Either you are conscious of what your are, or you're not. This silly teaching that we're all already enlightened is just a word-game. No, we're not all already enlightened. To be enlightened means you REALIZE it. Of course nothing existential changes about you. You've always been exactly what you are. But enlightenment doesn't mean existential change. It means a change in perspective, a realization. This change in perspective either did or did not occur. It's a factual matter. I've had this change in perspective -- but like for many people -- it didn't "sick". Which simply means more work is required. No big deal.

I never said it would. Notice how you frame things in terms of "If it ain't gonna enlighten you, it doesn't matter". That's a very narrow view. Tying your shoelaces doesn't enlighten you either, yet you still do it.

@jse How easily one could use that very excuse against all nonduality teachings. That's the chief reason why the world is 99% unenlightened.

Well of course! After a breakthrough dose of 5-meo, you'll be open to pretty much anything ;D

@jse How quickly you judge without exploring deeper.

There would be the perfect place to apply radical openmindedness

That's almost certainly false in my view. I've met healers (both enlightened and non-enlightened) personally who've spoken of their successes, I've had healers work on me, and if you spend even a bit of time doing research into various mystical traditions and alternative healing modalities, you'll see they don't make sense unless you allow for healing to be real. Just one of the cool perks of mastering nonduality

@str4 Well, it is important to distinguish between direct experience (your kitchen table) and hearsay (a book). The interesting thing is that hearsay can be very valuable (but also very dangerous). For without hearsay, would you have learned of enlightenment? Walking that tightrope between direct experience and hearsay is something VERY FEW people in the world can do well. And my hunch is, if you were able to train yourself to walk it, you'd discover things no other human being has discovered. And your life would be enriched beyond measure.

@Donald I would say it's even more radical and more challenging. I hear ya. Not easy material. Requires a very good mind to handle it correctly. And also probably some direct consciousness of reality before you are open enough. 2 years ago, I would not have been able to handle it.

@Motus The questioner may be resolved, but there is much yet to become directly conscious of

Ooo! Good thread topic. Let's hear 'em.

@Deep "Just your awareness expanding" is a rather mild way of putting it. More like: Infinity descended upon me like a giant hungry motherfucking pterodactyl.

@Motus I never said to presume anything. I'm merely suggesting you keep an open mind and question deeper in the nature of things. Who knows what you might find.

And those "7 factors of blossoming" happen whenever they happen Also I'd be more cautious of turning desire into an enemy. Some nondual schools, like Shaiva Tantra, like to leverage desire rather than rejecting it. Desire is a good thing. Even "wrong" desire. It's all grist for the mill of consciousness. You might find that the path of "rejecting wrong desire" takes longer to bear fruit than the path of "just let desire do its thing while staying mindful". Or not.

@cetus56 For me it sometimes feels more like a hollow hologram.

By that definition, Disneyland is exactly the state of consciousness you presently find yourself in You haven't just been there, you ARE Disneyland every day Wakey-wakey

@Motus Yes, that's WHO you are. But now you gotta experience WHAT you are! Much harder. WHAT is awareness? WHAT is the I AM? Go from Atman to Brahman.

@BeginnerActualizer Be kind as opposed to being a prick You're over-complicating it. The difference between acting out of selfish interest and altruistic interest is just obvious. You feel a contraction whenever you act out of self-interest at the expense of others. You know when you're taking too much pie for yourself. Imagine how you would act if you believed that every other sentient being was literally, physically you? You would exhibit great care, and tread lightly. That would be the Jain ideal.

I've experienced what I would call "minor" infinity or Holy Spirit or Atman during a meditation retreat. Absolute Infinity I think is what they call Brahman, and that is so much deeper than Atman that it's like a million times deeper. And that I've only experienced that on 5-meo. To me it seems unimaginable to experience it through human means alone, but clearly people have done it. I must admit I'm not a very good meditator or contemplator. My mind isn't built for high creativity, not one-pointed focus. And I suspect that there is a much deeper version of it yet to discover. But just getting a 10 second glimpse of Brahman is enough to change your entire life forever. Your realize in an instant that all of life and physical reality is just a dream.

There was a malfunction on 12/15/2016 which lead to a corrupt database. Luckily the forum database was not affected and things have now been restored. Sorry for the inconvenience to those who weren't able to access their Actualized.org accounts. I will be looking to move to a better server in the future, which should be much faster. Carry on.

Consider: when you look at your hand. It's infinite. What if it continues on for infinity, without an end? And that's just one hand, on one creature, on one planet, in one solar system, in one galaxy, in one universe.

Actually, this has been proven false by Cantor. It IS possible to measure sizes of infinity, and there are infinitely many sizes of infinity. And finally, Absolute Infinity, which is beyond them all. As an example, the infinite amount of real numbers between 0 and 1 is LARGER than the infinite amount of whole numbers between 0 and infinity! To understand this, you have to study set theory. I will talk about this in a new video. Guess what Cantor called absolute mathematical infinity? God Smart cookie that one

@Lorcan Yes, something like that. Which is where the concept of ABSOLUTE INFINITY comes into play. There are different sizes of infinity. In fact, there are an infinite number of sizes of infinity. But then there is ABSOLUTE INFINITY, which is infinity to infinity to infinity an infinite number of times, making it utterly COMPLETE beyond all additions, because it is ALL and NOT ALL. It's everything that could possibly be. And the coolest part is that you can experience it for yourself. Because you are it.

@Motus On the practical plane, you can certainly engage in practices that makes surrender much more likely. Like long strong determination sits, or week-long meditation retreats. So practically-speaking, there is much work to be done. A fisherman who bothers to prepare his gear, wake up early in the morning, and drive out to the lake, is gonna catch a lot more fish than one who doesn't.