Leo Gura

That's some truth right there.

@billiesimon Infinity.

@astrokeen The Truth is frightful to the unprepared mind. That is not a bug, that's the feature! 5-MeO is not going to nurture your ego. It's going to kill you.

Stop sniping at each other.

You can have deep ego death experiences on pretty much any decent psychedelic. I've had it on: mushrooms, LSD, 2CB, AL-LAD, etc. I've yet to take a psychedelic which did not cause ego-death in me at some point. It all depends on you and how deeply you're willing to go.

@Ether You are still being epistemically arrogant.

Enlightenment/Truth = what you call "derealization" Yes, it's pretty scary to die. You will never be the same again. "Reality" will forever be borked. As long as you keep insisting in brians or chemicals or anything else as "real", you will not be fully awake.

@Ether Stop speaking of things you have clearly not experienced. You are spreading misinformation of this forum. Avoid speculating until you've had some direct experiences of what is being talked about. Practice some humility.

Form is formlessness, formlessness is form. Everything is one. It all exists eternally as oneness. You body is not other than oneness. Oneness + a body = twoness, which is a false duality. Erase every duality you hold until only oneness remains. Surrender that ego and all of its desires, judgments, and fears. Peace of mind is the default condition after ego-death.

@White No point in feeding materialist BS theories of brians and chemicals. This is one of the most toxic ideas invented by mankind.

It doesn't matter what you want or think. Infinity is happening. It's the only thing happening. Here it is. You can either be conscious of it or not. You have no choice of not-existing. Not existing is impossible. So you're shit out of luck. That's immortality. Good and bad are just your opinions, which are irrelevant. You're going to exist forever. So get used to it. Or don't. Doesn't matter.

Just a delusion conceptual story. No such thing as chemicals, brians, experiences, or self. You are inside a dream. Wake up!

@stevegan928 Probably, although enlightenment also tends blow all models out of the water. If you ever become deeply enlightened, you will probably outgrow the need for Spiral Dynamics. Not necessarily, but at the deepest levels of consciousness, you are so far beyond the mind that all of these models and teachings will become mere child's toys. All the concepts I teach are not to be clung to. They are stepping stones to mystical states of consciousness and forms of cosmic intelligence which cannot be spoken. The things I teach are not a Bible, but a disposable ladder. Where the ladder leads you will not know until you've climbed it.

Not straight to Yellow. The kid still has to learn and integrate the prior stages. But it will certainly be easier with Yellow parents. It's easier to learn calculus if both your parents are calculus professors. But it still won't be automatic. You'll have to work at it. Calculus is complex stuff which requires a foundation of more basic mathematics. Reaching stage Yellow requires lots of education, contemplation, and self-reflection. You're probably gonna have to read hundreds of books in your life to get there.

@Leo-Tzu Lol, I think Japanese people just hate litter. Not every behavior is related to Spiral Dynamics. Every culture has its unique cultural customs. Japanese people are indoctrined not to litter. In Tokyo, it's taboo to even eat or drink while walking. If you walk down the street in Tokyo eating an icecream sandwhich, people will look at you like you're walking without pants.

@How to be wise I agree with Ken. Enlightenment is not directly correlated with Spiral Dynamics. With that said, it becomes easier to awaken as one becomes Yellow and Turquoise. Because the mind becomes more open and the ego becomes less clingy and constricted. It's very hard for a stage Blue or Orange person to persue enlightenment. Almost impossible. Enlightenment starts to become more possible at Green.

Get $2 foam earplugs at Walmart. Far superior to overpriced noise-cancelling gadgetry. Sometimes simplest is best.

Blue doesn't need Yellow concepts. Blue already has a full suite of pre-made judgments that they were indoctrinated with from birth. Your culture and peer group tells you who the devils are. Blue has no idea that Yellow is even a thing. Or what a concept is. The ego-mind justifies itself all the time at all stages.

Stop mentally masturbating. Hardly anyone in the world is even at Yellow. Stop keyboard-jockeying and get to work on yourself.

@Joseph Maynor "I don't lie to myself..." -- Rush Limbaugh LOL, that's classic!

"Better" is a relative notion. In the Absolute sense nothing is better than anything else. In the relative sense, it's better to live in a Green society than a Blue society for most people. Higher stages are less blindly selfish and egotistical than lower stage. Which generally makes for a "better" life. You would much rather live in Alabama than in the Congo. But if you want to be a bloodthirsty psychopath, by all means, go ahead. See how that works out for you and your people.

Right. Do as you please. What do you want?

It tends to be very traditional and conservative. Of course not always. But you have to see Zen as more than just enlightenment. Zen is an entire tradition, like Hinduism is. Even though Zen and Hinduism can lead you to enlightenment, they are usually dogmatic and Blue in their value structure. I don't doubt their enlightenment. You can be enlightened but your value system can still be very traditional and conservative. Enlightenment alone is not enough to take you to Turquoise. Enlightenment will not magically transform your value system to Yellow or Turquoise. Spiral Dynamics is not directly tracking one's progress towards enlightenment. That is not what the model was designed for.