Leo Gura

Fritjof Capra is quintessential Yellow, starting to turn Turquoise. A brilliant systems thinker:

@fireworld You are not going to understand the limits of science whilst you are stuck inside the paradigm of scientism. Me trying to argue against science with you would be like me trying to argue against Islam with a fundamentalist Muslim. It's pointless because you accept science as a dogma without being aware that you are doing so. If you care about the Truth, you will make a serious inquiry into the limits of science on your own. You're right about one thing: science is pragmatic. But pragmatism is the ego-mind's survival agenda, which has nothing to do with Truth or deep understanding. In an illusory world, illusion, lying, deception, imagination, and manipulation is highly effective for the purposes of maintaining and advancing oneself as an illusion.

Well... since it accords with you it must be true. That's called scientism. You've just replaced blind belief in Allah with blind belief in science. It's the same shell game, just using different shells.

Flying a private jet does not preclude one from being Yellow. You really expect a huge celebrity like Di Caprio to fly public? He would be hounded by fanboys all day long. A guy like that needs body guards around him. You're talking about one of the most famous people in the whole world. With all that said, Di Caprio seems more Orange/Green to me.

@fireworld Let me rewrite what you wrote from stage Blue's POV thinking about your stage (Orange). Orange Stupidity: The idea behind Spiral Dynamics is that you go through the stages and incorporate the previous stages into the higher ones to some extent. Given this shouldn't stage Orange have a decent amount of understanding of how religion and morality works? I understand that there are limits to religion and that it can be done in an unhealthy way, but from my perspective every person that i have met that is in stage Orange is extremely selfish and disconnected from "moral living". Take the human body as an example of a system, we know that this system called a human body operates in certain ways that keeps it healthy and strong. Proper food, sleep, prayer, fasting, chastity, and so on. But the stage Oranges seem to be extremely against any "set" rules for keeping your materialistic cravings in check. They will take something like casual sex or greasy fast food or alcohol and call it healthy even though we know it isn't healthy at all and is most likely going to be the thing that kills you. The same is true about business, or relationships or anything that we have a deep understanding of. Our religious leaders have long ago pointed out the evils of having a materialistic worldview. Materialism leads to a rejection of God, a mindless belief in technological progress and science, and is responsible for greed, corporate exploitation, objectification of women, sex addiction, drug addiction, food addiction, pornography, crude humor, violent video games, nuclear weapons, depression, suicide, loss of direction, broken marriages, single mothers, STDs, abortions, and much more. Isn't Orange corrupting the very fabric of decent society, turning it into the devil's playground? How can Orange be so stupid as to expect happiness from money, fine clothing, technological gadgetry, TV, video games, Facebook, sex before marriage, pornography, drugs, and rock n roll? Isn't Orange the embodiment of depravity and godlessness? Isn't this the greatest limiting factor to stage Orange? Is that they are completely ignoring how spiritual reality actually works and that's the reason they end up in so much trouble and pain?

@DoubleYou That's what happens when someone puts LSD in your donuts

"Consciousness" is a tricky word. People use it to mean different things. You have to make sure you guys are talking about the same thing.

@Self Discovery In other words, the retreat worked perfectly Enlightenment will strip all meaning from life. Hence why nobody pursues it. You can't get to Being while you're still stuck in meaning.

@aurum Don't get me started on the delusions that pervade PUA culture. I know them all too well. You can do all the spiritual work you want, but the fact remains that PUA is an escape from the real inner work. When you get to real spiritual work PUA will fly out the window as delusional nonsense. I am not going to argue with you about it. You can figure it out on your own. All the points I made are still valid, despite your rebuttals. With all that said, I don't object to talking to girls in clubs to improve your game. What I object to is the toxic anti-woman ideology that comes with it. PUA is like Islam. Good in theory but often ugly in practice. I know most of the RSD instructors. They are very immature and dysfunctional. With that said, yes, they still help lots of guys. They helped me. But you also gotta move on. The sad irony is, all these mens rights movements are way more ugly and toxic than feminism. Which is precisely why all this hatred of feminism exists. It's just compensation for one's own inadequacies.

That's right. Although it's complicated. You have to understand that mystics and enlightened people tend to reside outside Spiral the entirely. Nonduality cannot be mapped. Nonduality is not a stage you reach. Nonduality is Absolute. Never forget that Spiral Dynamics is just a model, and it is not designed to model mysticism, altered states of consciousness, or nonduality. If you want a model of levels of nonduality, Ramaji's LOC system is better suited to that. Although, still, it's just a model and will not address every facet.

@astrokeen I have never used cannabis. Certainly the research shows it has medical properties of all kinds. The problem with it is addiction. True psychedelics are non-addictive.

Welcome to relativity.

"At least 50% of internet quotes are fake." -- Eckhart Tolle

-- Sadhguru

It just happens naturally as you trip. Just surrender to the trip and the substance will take you were you need to go, whether mentally or emotionally. I've had powerful emotional experiences on every substance. It mostly depends on you, not the substance. Mushrooms can be very emotional for me. They tend to be intoxicating and very trippy. LSD is better for metaphysical contemplation. As your trip starts you can set an intention to either: 1) work on personal emotional issues, 2) work on metaphysical insights, 3) work on life purpose and a vision for your life. Just pick one and see where it takes you.

This is so toxic and neurotic I don't even know where to begin deconstructing it. That's how the world looks like when you're at Tyler's level of consciousness. At higher levels of consciousness, it does not look like that. The fundamental problem with PUAs is, they want to bang the hottest 0.001% of girls, a new one very week, and when that girl rejects him or refuses to sleep with him within 4 hours of meeting him, he gets pissy and blames her for it. Because of course PUA can't be wrong by definition. Are young women in their early 20's attracted to low-quality men? Of course! In the same way that people are attracted to low quality food. The solution isn't to start another McDonalds. The supermodel girls in their 20's are immature and unconscious and have no idea how to select proper mates. PUA then blames and exploits them for it. Yes, you will definitely have more sex by manipulating girls. Just like you will definitely earn more money by manipulating and cheating customers. But that's not what you really want in the end. You don't really want a new supermodel girl every week. What you want is 1 girl who are able to love and build a deep relationship with. She doesn't even have to be that hot. That's your insatiable ego at work. The counter-intuitive move for Tyler here would be to say, "I will surrender my desire for sex with a new super-model girl every week." The problem isn't that he can't get girls. The problem is that he is trying to reach God/Infinity through sex/girls/pickup, and this will NEVER work. Materialism never works. But rather than admitting that, the PUA will blame the women. You have to understand that PUAs are fundamentally incapable of being in relationships because they are too narcissistic and manipulative to have an honest, intimate, loving relationship. They are too immature to be vulnerable and to commit to one woman. Many PUAs are really just sex and ego addicts without realizing it. PUA becomes just another materialist escape, no different than TV, drugs, or porn. It's a 1st and 2nd chakra activity -- driven by very low consciousness needs.

There are numerous problems I have with Sam Harris: He doesn't understand what God is, what enlightenment is, what consciousness is, or what intelligence is. He does not understand the true origins of religion. He still clings to and advocates a rationalist morality, without being conscious that morality is a human invention and a weapon of the ego. He demonizes Islam by citing poll studies which are greatly distorted and misrepresentative. The majority of Muslims DO NOT believe it is right to kill apostates, etc. Those polls are just bad. He has built a cult following of atheists and rationalists which use Sam to justify a closedminded scientism. He still fundamentally holds a dualistic, materialistic worldview -- despite his meditation and spiritual questing. He doesn't really fathom the depth of psychedelics. He doesn't really fathom the depth of consciousness. He doesn't understand what Truth is. He doesn't understand that science and language cannot access Truth. He treats consciousness as though it is produced by the brain. He advances American exceptionalism, which is a blindness to national and cultural self-bias. He acts as though Western culture is objectively better and superior to other cultures. In evaluating the problems in the Middle East he places way too much emphasis on Islamic beliefs vs geo-political, historical, and economic factors, which are far more significant. There is no acknowledgment that Islam can be practiced at different levels of consciousness: Purple, Red, Blue, Orange, Green, Yellow, Turquoise. He paints all of Islam as Red/Blue. This is a fundamental error. The problems which exist within Islam are NOT due to specific beliefs in the Quran but due to lack of geo-political and consciousness development in the Middle East. All of the problems in the Middle East could be resolved without changing the Quran or the basics of Islam. He places way too much importance on the content of belief vs one's level of consciousness. He is engaging in a lesser Jihad and indoctrinating his fanbase into doing the same. Seems to me like he's making more enemies in the Middle East than building bridges. It's not an accident that he gets so many death threats. Because he's try to ram American culture down people's throats. He stokes up right wing Islamophobia. He is the poster-child for scientism by making claims like the following: "The scientific data can't be racist." Which is quite ignorant of what "data" is. There is no such thing as data. All data is theory-laden and will of course be cherry-picked by the ego to justify its self-biases. Which is precisely the problem of scientism, and what people like JP or Sam Harris are doing. They use "data" and "reason" to be advance their biases. I don't see an awareness of the nuances of epistemology within him. I also don't see an awareness of how the ego-mind uses logic, data, science, and rationality to advance its agenda. Sam's entire rationalist philosophy is ego-based from my perspective. He likes to play the philosopher without realizing that Western philosophy is dead because it is all mind-based ego games. You will never arrive a Truth via Western philosophy or science. And the problem is that because he presents an air of authority and intelligence, people just swallow it up without realizing that they are being indoctrinated into a religion. From the big picture perspective, the very problems that Sam Harris is pointing out within Islam, are the very same problems he himself is falling into. There is lack of self-awareness of the mechanisms of the ego-mind. Fundamentalism isn't just a problem for Islam. It's also a problem for materialistic atheists. If people didn't take him too seriously, that would be okay. But his fanbase is cult-like and really believes in it.

Great thread idea

@Etherial Cat I would put Marcus Aurelius at Blue. You have to understand that stages Green, Yellow, Turquoise basically did not exist 200+ years ago. At least that's according to the Spiral Dynamics model. People from 2000 years ago lived in a radically different reality and culture. They were not like us today minus smartphones and cars.

He seems more Blue/Green to me. I don't know that much about him though.

Here's what a Yellow wedding looks like:

For starters, someone who has a sense of life purpose and doesn't play victim or whine about women. A man who complains about feminism isn't a real man, that's a pouting child. A real man has something of value to offer the woman. And he treats women well, with love and respect.

@MM1988 Mating is a tough game. You think women have it easy?? Dating is much easier for guys than girls, so spare us your JP crocodile tears. You have no idea the kind of shit women go through. To expect top notch women to be handed to you on a silver platter sure sounds like communism. Women don't own you anything. Become a quality man and they will come aflocking.

@Emne There are tons of programs and courses available which teach you how to get good at dating and flirting with girls. It's like learning a programming language. You just commit to learning it and follow the tutorials.