Great Video

[Gopackgo]

This did it for me. It just is. Can you accept that? No you cant. The more you try, the deeper you sink. What is is whats happening, and there's nothing outside of that. This video is hilarious. Any attempt to rationalize it is absurd.

This is combined with a meditation session last night where I noticed that even the thoughts I used to think about enlightenment are not under any control. They just arise. Thinking about it at all is an illusion. I didn't want to accept it, and that was the answer, because nothing can never accept  anything, let alone something. I still haven't accepted it, and I never will, but it is known that the non-acceptance is not accepted by a me that doesn't exist. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Gopackgo

[LRyan]

What the heck is going on with this? Wow, mind boggling....couldn't follow it because it's well, unfollowable?  Huh....Everything is nothing then why are we here as a human being if nothing wants nothing or I mean there is nothing period.......In practical terms, how do you carry out a human life it nothing is real? Why talk or speak or exist?  I'm super confused........This is Radical!

Edited March 31, 2017 by LRyan

[Gopackgo]

@LRyan  You don't have an option. There's no free will in the matter. That line of questioning assumes that there has to be a point to life, and also assumes that one wouldn't be motivated without a point. But really, the crux of the matter is that there is no rationalizing. If I have learned anything from this work it is that rationalization is the greatest enemy of the enlightenment seeker. A person cannot rationalize nothing. No concept of nothing can ever exist. You just are, this reeality just is. The self is made from rationalizations. That is it's only function. The real question is whether or not you can accept that you may never know what you are seeking. Or maybe you will, but either way, can you accept it? How can someone possibly understand reality when they can't stop themselves from rationalizing it instead of accepting what is.

Apparently, there are many different realizations in this, and that has been the experience for "me". Seeking is totally worth it until it isn't anymore, then it is about direct experience, which it always was. I will continue to search and destroy lingering belief, and be mindful of rationalization, but the inherent question is, if the self never exists, then who is it that the seeker expects to "know" this stuff? Even just this post, I am typing it as if it will affect anyone's opinion, but they either will or won't accept it. It isn't up to me or them, so there is no point of even posting it. Yet here I am. 

I think selfs get stuck because they cant stop trying to rationalize everything (maybe). Take a good hard look at thought processes, and ask if the thinker is thinking, or if it  is a thought itself. It certainly occurs in the same thought process. If the thinker is a thought, how can the thinker seek?

This is all new to me, and I don't know what comes next, but I think that's the point. Who can know? 

[LRyan]

I don't know enough about all of this to comment.  I am open to the seeking of all things.  I will be looking into this further....There is so much information on this site and videos, I get very flustered trying to sort out which thing to look at next because I want to know everything whoever i is...

[Gopackgo]

@LRyan Everyone wants to know everything. This is the problem. There's always a new thing to look for. Don't lose sight of whats around you, i.e. dont replace worrying about the future of life with worrying about the future of your enlightenment. Having said that, I think this is a good thing to begin seeking. Like Leo said, those who have "it" always say there's nothing to look for, but that means nothing to the asleep. Having said that, I didnt begin looking until i knew something may need to be looked for in an epic WTF moment. You will either find it or not, but I mean shit, what else is there to do in life? Go in with an open heart and a skeptical mind, and anything you find about yourself is a positive. Only give authority to your direct experience. If you seek teachers and information about other's experience, only do so to get context, and then dive back into your own direct experience.

[SLICKHAWK]

Dive in.. Deep in side. Imagine nothing can control you. We create. We create our reality outside of our inner core. 

Our inner core is Godlike is beyond how you see your reality. 

The now the present is how you create it. Infinite.

[Joel3102]

Lol this guy strikes me as what Leo would call a zen devil. He's probably right though

[LRyan]

10 hours ago, SLICKHAWK said:

Dive in.. Deep in side. Imagine nothing can control you. We create. We create our reality outside of our inner core. 

Our inner core is Godlike is beyond how you see your reality. 

The now the present is how you create it. Infinite.

I watched  some more of Jim Normans videos and read last night about this and I think the point is that there is nothing to create there is only what is.  There's no one to do anything and there is no YOU.  There is just infinity and the illusion of "you"....

Everything is infinate......I can't really grasp this concept.  If this is the case, then why do anything? Why work on personal development?   I printed out a Core Values Workbook yesterday to try to discover what my true values are but if there is no me or I and I have no control over anything because it's all a dream, why do anything to change your thoughts/views/beliefs/perceptions.

I don't know what to do anymore about any of this. Very confused right now.

 

Edited April 1, 2017 by LRyan

[Gopackgo]

6 hours ago, Joel3102 said:

Lol this guy strikes me as what Leo would call a zen devil. He's probably right though

Maybe, but it seems to me that he is saying what every teacher is saying. It is beyond comprehension. I mean think about the implications of no free will. It means that you will realize when you realize. Everyone wants to make a model of reality in terms of enlightenment. How is this any different than science or religion? Further, how is being obsessed with finding the perfect model any different? Seeking obsessively inherently means that you are not accepting what is. Also, it is a real possibility that all of the teachers applying concepts are only activating the self. The self deals in concepts, but awareness deals in direct experience. Do you think that thinking about reality is any different from being a self? Maybe the best way to explore reality is to .... be reality. I mean, anything beyond the subject, like a concept or experience, is an object, which is duality. Around us is a singular expression of what is. Any form of seeking assumes that there is some experience outside of your self that you need to seek. That is duality.

In some other videos, he talks about how there is no moment in time because time is infinite. So specifying a moment is like claiming that a circle has a beginning or end. It all just is. It happens simultaneously. What do you think memory is? Are any of your memories in the 3rd person? IT seems to me that memories are all 1 experience of what is. In my meditations, I have been going through memories, and it as if I am projecting consciousness to the memory and reassuring my consciousness (at the time of the memory) that everything is fine and this is just reality expressing itself. I have told the separate self that it is ok to allow emotion to express. So Im not saying that exercising meditation practices are dumb. I am saying that you have absolutely 0 control in deciding to do them. They just are. It is 1 continuous expression of the same awareness. Our "brain" generates a reality, and beyond the bounds of that, we will not ever know what is.

The dualist would say that there is information beyond what a person is aware of, that comes into awareness and  is perceived. The non-dualist would say there is no separation, there just is. The experience arises as part of the awareness expressing itself, but there can be no separation. It is all one continuous expression of the same nothingness which is also everything. The only way to see this is to stop applying concepts and to be the actual experience. Seeking prevents this because when you are applying a teachers concepts, there is no difference between that and applying any other concept. It just is. The self cannot consider this, so it seeks to understand the un-explainable instead of just being it. Its the same thing with choice. There can be no choice for a dualist because a choice is a duality. It all just is. There can be no choice. Accepting no choice (as if you have the choice about accepting choice) is a big step toward acceptance. Again, none of what I have said has any bearing on you, and even if it were to make you "change your mind", that is an illusion. You were always going to change your mind, and the self creates the illusion that new information caused you to make a choice. So stop feeding the rational self. Be what is, what always was, what always will be. (but what also never was or will be because past and future are illusion).

[Gopackgo]

Also, labeling a person as a zen devil is a duality. It just is. A label is a concept that is inherently not acceptance. It is a function of the story of me. Think about it like this. In nonduality, if there is any disagreement, both parties are wrong. That is an implication of unity. Any disagreement or resistance is a red flag for the separate self. But also, they aren't wrong because right and wrong are non-existent. We just are as we are. There is no other way that it could be. There is no awareness, no I, no seeking, nothing other than being. Reality is being. The illusion is assuming that it is not being how it is.

[SLICKHAWK]

8 hours ago, LRyan said:

I watched  some more of Jim Normans videos and read last night about this and I think the point is that there is nothing to create there is only what is.  There's no one to do anything and there is no YOU.  There is just infinity and the illusion of "you"....

Everything is infinate......I can't really grasp this concept.  If this is the case, then why do anything? Why work on personal development?   I printed out a Core Values Workbook yesterday to try to discover what my true values are but if there is no me or I and I have no control over anything because it's all a dream, why do anything to change your thoughts/views/beliefs/perceptions.

I don't know what to do anymore about any of this. Very confused right now.

 

Now smile and create a beutiful journey. Tag find me

[LRyan]

5 hours ago, Gopackgo said:

Maybe, but it seems to me that he is saying what every teacher is saying. It is beyond comprehension. I mean think about the implications of no free will. It means that you will realize when you realize. Everyone wants to make a model of reality in terms of enlightenment. How is this any different than science or religion? Further, how is being obsessed with finding the perfect model any different? Seeking obsessively inherently means that you are not accepting what is. Also, it is a real possibility that all of the teachers applying concepts are only activating the self. The self deals in concepts, but awareness deals in direct experience. Do you think that thinking about reality is any different from being a self? Maybe the best way to explore reality is to .... be reality. I mean, anything beyond the subject, like a concept or experience, is an object, which is duality. Around us is a singular expression of what is. Any form of seeking assumes that there is some experience outside of your self that you need to seek. That is duality.

In some other videos, he talks about how there is no moment in time because time is infinite. So specifying a moment is like claiming that a circle has a beginning or end. It all just is. It happens simultaneously. What do you think memory is? Are any of your memories in the 3rd person? IT seems to me that memories are all 1 experience of what is. In my meditations, I have been going through memories, and it as if I am projecting consciousness to the memory and reassuring my consciousness (at the time of the memory) that everything is fine and this is just reality expressing itself. I have told the separate self that it is ok to allow emotion to express. So Im not saying that exercising meditation practices are dumb. I am saying that you have absolutely 0 control in deciding to do them. They just are. It is 1 continuous expression of the same awareness. Our "brain" generates a reality, and beyond the bounds of that, we will not ever know what is.

The dualist would say that there is information beyond what a person is aware of, that comes into awareness and  is perceived. The non-dualist would say there is no separation, there just is. The experience arises as part of the awareness expressing itself, but there can be no separation. It is all one continuous expression of the same nothingness which is also everything. The only way to see this is to stop applying concepts and to be the actual experience. Seeking prevents this because when you are applying a teachers concepts, there is no difference between that and applying any other concept. It just is. The self cannot consider this, so it seeks to understand the un-explainable instead of just being it. Its the same thing with choice. There can be no choice for a dualist because a choice is a duality. It all just is. There can be no choice. Accepting no choice (as if you have the choice about accepting choice) is a big step toward acceptance. Again, none of what I have said has any bearing on you, and even if it were to make you "change your mind", that is an illusion. You were always going to change your mind, and the self creates the illusion that new information caused you to make a choice. So stop feeding the rational self. Be what is, what always was, what always will be. (but what also never was or will be because past and future are illusion).

You really have a good grasp of what is. I appreciate you expanding on this.  I or whoever it is, false self...am trying to follow what is being said, I can understand in a scientific way but I have questions that are of a practical nature to what is...

I agree that what is, is beyond comprehension, infinity cannot be understood by a mind. 

Please indulge me a bit further, I am interested to know more....I am not arguing any points...

What do you mean you have no control over whether or not to meditate?

What do you mean to be the actual experience?  To live totally in the now without thought?  How can a mind suppress all thought?  Or am I missing this entirely?

Can you explain further about accepting no choice?  How would your mind work without choice, which way to drive to a destination?  Do you mean it really is an automatic thing the brain does it just appears that we have a choice? I am asking about practical choices in reality..

I am interested in understanding and I grasp the nature of what he is saying, I guess my mind wants to understand how this affects the reality that you are in a human body and are interacting with the illusion of life and a self..

Thx!

[Gopackgo]

@LRyan First, I don't understand because understanding is a thought running through this experience. No one can understand because in order to understand, there has to be someone there. A being is nothing more than the experiences arising at any given time. We literally are the knowing of experiences. The problem is that one of those experiences rises up and starts attaching meaning to other experiences through projection and judgment. We are like glass of water. The ripples in the water pass through us at random, and dissipate. The self is one of those ripples that occurs. This isn't the best metaphor because the water suggests that the water is the self it is running through, but really it would be as if the ripples themselves made up the water. The only way that the water is like the self is that it connects all the ripples, but in an illusory way.

What I mean about no control is that you don't have choices, only the illusion of them. You can control nothing because "you" do not exist. You are just the summation of experiences. For instance, right now I am typing at a computer. That is my experience, and I am whatever my experience is. It rises and falls, and then I am sitting on the chair. I don't mean "am" like a verb, I mean "am" as in I am that experience. That is what is and that is the closest I can come to a self. I am the experience arising and falling. The self is like this as well. It is a recurring thought that rises and falls when activated. It is a thought about what should be and what my experience needs. It projects itself onto other experiences, or it twists perceptions of experience to fit what it assumes should be the case (rationalization). It is the experience of conditioning. Really, there is no connection between those experiences other than the knowing of them.

As you meditate, you will see that you actually have 0 control over the content of your thought. It goes through levels. First the thought talk will be loud, and then you will realize that the thoughts you thought you were controlling are actually just appearing. Identification with them will end. Then there will be a smaller voice feeding into your awareness. Similarly you will get separation from those sub thoughts, and you will see that they are just flowing through you. For me, after that, I wondered what it was that was getting separation from the thought processes. It was the seeker that was deciding to act in the first place. I had no control over it. For the scientific mind, think of it like this. All decision making happens outside of the conscious mind. The experience of conscious thought and the self is an OUTPUT to the system like every other sensation, not an input. Decisions are not made in the conscious mind. Assuming you have control over them is the same as saying that you have the ability not to hear sounds. You have no control over that. Thoughts are just had, not controlled. When you really look closely, you will see that you are identifying with these thoughts. All you can do is accept that you truly have no control over anything, and that things happen as they should. Anytime you feel that this isn't the case, it means the ego is projecting something onto reality. That is wanting and need. It's all a movie, your experience of it is an output. This requires a force outside of "your" control to realize this. So it doesn't really matter what I saw, the message will be accepted or not, but not by the thought you consider to be "I".

As far as the direct experience thing, what worked for me is just really considering, have you ever in your life experienced something other than right now? Even memories are experienced in the present. That's actually one of the biggest problems. Selves worry about the future, a story that is out of their control and one that they have never even experienced. This is anxiety. I recognized that when you live in story thoughts, your life becomes a future delusion story-thought. It does 0 good to be absorbed in story thoughts in the present, because the present is all you have or will ever have. Time is a funny thing really. The future and past do not exist, and the present instantly becomes the past. Regardless of that absolute mind fuck, the definition of living in delusion is living in some projection of your ego that says, "I need all these things I want to be happy". That is a perpetual kicking of the can down the road, and the future will never be the present. 

A mind cannot suppress thought. The experience of mind itself is a thought. A concept dictates whatever that experience is. Like I said before, you cant control the thoughts flowing through you. There is an illusion that you can, but it is an illusion. Thoughts are a sensation. You know this because you experience them, and you will realize that they rise and fall like everything else. The knowing of the experience, however, is permanent. In my experience, concentration meditation and just spreading focus around my sensations showed me how much there was a focus on thoughts alone. There is sooooo much more. The self thought creates a huge blindspot in this regard. It rises and falls, but when there is an identification with thoughts, other sensations are whitewashed from awareness of them. It is driven by want.

Some advice: Be very aware of how your thought processes work, when you start using the same processes and just switching the content. I did this with Buddhism. Same scientific rational thought process, just switching in Buddhist thought processes. You will see what I mean on this one. It's tricky in that way, but what was being done was mental masturbation wherein the ego was needing to make sense of what was occurring, or discrepancies between my experience and others experiences. The other thing is hard, Is that right now, your life is dictated by stories. It is very hard to accept that those stories do not have any bearing on what is right now. However, the sooner you accept that everything you "know" is a total illusion driven by an out of control thought, the better. You of course have no control over when you accept it, but something does, so I am talking to whatever that is.

I know this is a lot, and I don' t claim that all of this is true, these are just the thoughts that came through me. Please feel free to ask questions. This is truly impossible to explain, but there is no annoyance on this end. Push back if you want and maybe you will help me to remove resistances that I cant see in experience. 

[Gopackgo]

The thing is though that no  one can ever understand because there is no one to understand. Only accumulations of experience in the present moment.